May 16, 2011 -- 12:35PM, Ebon wrote:

May 16, 2011 -- 8:27AM, Dostojevsky wrote:

Here's two extremes if life. We do not wish it on anybody. But if I had to choose, I'd choose being killed anytime. ?*

 If torture came with a finite duration, endure this much and you can go free, I daresay many would be able to resist it but one of the terrors of torture is that you're unaware of the duration or even if there is one. That all you know is pain and, as far as you're concerned, that may be all you will ever know. So I think, in that regard, I'd choose death.

Touture is always finite. It will end in death if it does not stop. Why choose death when it may stop?

Shirley

Howdy Dost

May 16, 2011 -- 8:27AM, Dostojevsky wrote:

I read about Demjanjuk sentence of 5 years in prison for assisting in murder of many Jews in Sobibor, Poland.  -

 The prosecution has been unable to tie Demjanjuk personally to any specific  crime of violence. Instead, his alleged crime consists of having been  present as a low-ranked guard at camp which sole purpose, it is alleged,  was the extermination of Jews.

On 12 May 2011, 91-year-old Demjanjuk was convicted by a German court of
complicity in the murder of over 28,000 Jews whilst serving at Sobibor, and was sentenced to 5 years in jail.^[1]However, the court ordered him released pending appeal. He is now living free, in a German nursing home. The prime purpose of Sobibor was for the extemination of Jews. 

May 16, 2011 -- 8:27AM, Dostojevsky wrote:

 Any guard who found this activity  objectionable, the prosecution’s argument goes, could have deserted his  post. However, the mere presence as a guard at Sobibor, or any of the  other extermination camps, has UNTIL NOW NOT been considered punishable.

What activity was objectionable? 

Why do you think it is that Ivan was chosen to be punished? 

May 16, 2011 -- 8:27AM, Dostojevsky wrote:

Tonight I read in The Nation that nothing's changed either in Abu Ghraib or other prisons.

"The Iraq War Logs proved changes had not been made. And now, with  this new report out from The Investigative Fund at The Nation Institute  and PBS’s Need to Know there is further confirmation that  perpetrators of atrocities continue to go unpunished, those who allow  for systemic abuse to continue have not been held accountable, and  nothing has really changed since the Abu Ghraib scandal."

Does Pres. Obama the Nobel Peace Prize winner know about the continued torture of prisioners in Abu Gharaib?  Should he be held accountable for the continuing torture? 

It is my understanding that Abu Gharib is under the control of Iraq. 

May 16, 2011 -- 8:27AM, Dostojevsky wrote:

Will those guards and many others who are involved be liable one day when political scenarios change?

I don't know, I am not a psychic or a prophet.  But I do recall that in the past there were court martials for some of the guards and they were convicted and punished. 

May 16, 2011 -- 8:27AM, Dostojevsky wrote:

 Are they uneasy yet feel it is a job?

Is that a rhetorical question? 

May 16, 2011 -- 8:27AM, Dostojevsky wrote:

Obeying the orders like Demjanjuk?

Wochhere thay obeying orders like Demjanjuk? 

Or was that another rhetorical question? 

May 16, 2011 -- 8:27AM, Dostojevsky wrote:

These two scenarios made me think about torture and killing.

I can't stand pain. Can't imagine anyone can. You endure it because you have no choice, but I have heard of some women who plead with their husbands to kill them on the visiting days as they can not endure. Would not be easy to commit suicide and  THEY would make sure that there's nothing around that you could.

But other people can stand pain.  Some people even inflict pain on themselves. Cutters and masochist for example.  There are people who live with a variety of chronic pain everyday.  Some people are able to withstand pain better than others.  A determined person can find a way to commit suicide. 

May 16, 2011 -- 8:27AM, Dostojevsky wrote:

Here's two extremes if life. We do not wish it on anybody. But if I had to choose, I'd choose being killed anytime. ?*

www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20063366... 

It would depend on how much pain was being inflicted and for how long. 

I could not imagine my being in a Nazi concentration for more than six months and not committing suicide.  But people did it.  

May 16, 2011 -- 8:27AM, Dostojevsky wrote:

 

In letter, CIA chief undercuts role of torture in search for Osama bin Laden 

I really don't know how much of a role torture was used in the search for Osama bin Laden. 

I don't think I could endure much torture.  I think that if I were being tortured I would tell both the truth and lies to stop being tortured.  But just because I would does not mean that everyone would.  I have heard of cases in which people have endured extreme tortures and have not confessed to falsehoods or revealed the truth.  

It is my understanding that information that led to the capture of OLB was not gained by torture or enhanced interrogation. 

It is my understanding that Chocolate Jesus, the winner of the Nobel Prize for Peace has forbidden the use of torture and extrodinary renditons. 

Have A Thinking Day And Avoid Torture 

If the prisoner is a masochist, is it really torture? 

May 17, 2011 -- 3:46PM, shirleyj227 wrote:

Touture is always finite. It will end in death if it does not stop. Why choose death when it may stop?

Shirley

My husband had heart surgery when he was 14--before PCA pumps and better pain management. He can remember 40 years later laying in the hospital bed thinking he would rather be dead.  

May 18, 2011 -- 11:20PM, mytmouse57 wrote:

This society is funny. We talk about being dead (or rather, done with this life) as if it's a bad thing.

There are some for whom death and torture are both too good for them. They just need to be placed in a place where they can hurt no one else.