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Switch to Forum Live View South Dakota's new abortion law
7 years ago  ::  Mar 03, 2011 - 3:46PM #31
shirleyj227
Posts: 11,003

Mar 3, 2011 -- 3:32PM, Girlchristian wrote:


Mar 3, 2011 -- 3:21PM, Iwantamotto wrote:


I'm not one to agree with Girlchristian on this issue, but I don't see where she supposedly said that either.





Thank you!




I also agree.


Shirley

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7 years ago  ::  Mar 03, 2011 - 4:01PM #32
Yavanna
Posts: 3,149

Mar 3, 2011 -- 3:35PM, Erey wrote:


Mar 3, 2011 -- 3:06PM, TPaine wrote:


Mar 3, 2011 -- 1:16PM, Erey wrote:


Mar 3, 2011 -- 12:57PM, TPaine wrote:


Why do Republicans constantly talk about limiting the power of government and then propose legislation that put the government between a woman and her right to choose whether or not to continue a pregnancy? The total hypocrisy of such positions is blatantly obvious.

Section 5. That chapter 34-23A be amended by adding thereto a NEW SECTION to read as follows:





I have not read the bill to the extent you have done.  I will say when it comes to why some people and groups want to limit abortion it is because they view it as murder of a human being.  Obviously not everyone sees it htat way but many, many people do.  And I ask you if you thought something was murder you would want to vote to have that made illegal.



Belief that abortion is murder depends on when one believes a zygote or fetus becomes a person. If took the position that abortion is murder, I would have to agree that a 12-year-old girl who was impregnated by being raped by her father or next door neighbor would have to carry the baby to term. I would also have to believe that abortion could not permitted even to save the life of the mother. Since I can't honestly agree with either of those two examples, I cannot believe that abortion is murder.





I think that is true, if you believe it to be murder then it is not acceptable under any circumstance including rape.   


I believe you can see it as murder but begrudgingly give concessions for the life of the mother.  After all the seperate cojoined twins at the risk of the lives of one or both of the twins. 


It is not easy. 





Sure it is. I only have one wife. We can have more children. While our children mean the world to us and are not replacable, the love we have for them is not as strong as what we have for one another. Both of us wouldn't hesitate to save eachother's life over the child in a bad pregnancy or labor. It isn't murder in those cases, it's only being able to save one. If you wanted to define that as murder, you'd have to arrest all doctors, nurses, EMTs, firemen, police, military, etc... etc...

The dwarves of yore made mighty spells,
While hammers fell like ringing bells
In places deep, where dark things sleep,
In hollow halls beneath the fells.

For ancient king and elvish lord
There many a gloaming golden hoard
They shaped and wrought, and light they caught
To hide in gems on hilt of sword.
- J.R.R. Tolkien
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7 years ago  ::  Mar 03, 2011 - 6:23PM #33
costrel
Posts: 6,227

Mar 3, 2011 -- 10:32AM, Erey wrote:

I don't like abortion, it is a ugly vile thing.  However I would much rather use my energies to helping unprepared young women NOT get pregnant in the first place.  Over 85% of unwanted pregnancies are due to not using BC or not using it properly.  That is where the focus should be to drive it into awareness to always respect your body and respect yourself and use protection everytime.  I don't want young women having abortions and I don't want them having unwanted children either. 


You have to remember that South Dakota is mostly full of Catholics and Lutherans. The Catholics generally don't accept birth control (though I'm not sure of the typical Lutheran attitude). As the potential future Saint Dorothy Day said, "To me, birth control and abortion are genocide. I say, make room for children, don’t do away with them." When birth control is seen as just as ugly and vile and evil as abortion (and genocide), perpetual virginity, celibacy, and pregnancy are the only options.

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7 years ago  ::  Mar 03, 2011 - 6:25PM #34
costrel
Posts: 6,227

I should add that the people of South Dakota have twice in the past five years voted down state bans on abortion (though the rumor is that this was because the people want a national ban on abortion, not a wimpy state ban, and do not want to pay the money necessary for a battle with the Supreme Court). It seems as if the politicians are not satisfied with the will of the people and want to continually tinker around with state abortion laws rather than wait for a national showdown.

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7 years ago  ::  Mar 03, 2011 - 8:33PM #35
Girlchristian
Posts: 13,685

Mar 3, 2011 -- 3:46PM, shirleyj227 wrote:


Mar 3, 2011 -- 3:32PM, Girlchristian wrote:


Mar 3, 2011 -- 3:21PM, Iwantamotto wrote:


I'm not one to agree with Girlchristian on this issue, but I don't see where she supposedly said that either.





Thank you!




I also agree.


Shirley





Thanks Shirley.

"No matter how dark the moment, love and hope are always possible." George Chakiris

“For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible.” Stuart Chase
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7 years ago  ::  Mar 03, 2011 - 9:02PM #36
REteach
Posts: 16,577

Mar 3, 2011 -- 6:23PM, costrel wrote:

The Catholics generally don't accept birth control




Actually, about 85% of Catholics ignore official teaching on birth control.  I got married as a college student in SD and got my contraception from the local planned parenthood. 

I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize what you heard was not what I meant...
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7 years ago  ::  Mar 03, 2011 - 9:12PM #37
REteach
Posts: 16,577

Only about half of all conceptions end in a healthy baby--quite apart from human intervention. Apparently God does believe in abortion since so many pregnancies end in spontaneous abortion. Many OBs will not even bother to see patients before about 8 weeks because so many pregnancies will be lost by then.


There is a certain birth defect called osteogenesis imperfecta type II.  These babies suffer severe broken bones in utero and often die shortly after birth.  What would we call a parent who didn't give pain meds to a baby with broken bones? Abusive? Yet some think it is so important not to abort the baby that they are willing to let it suffer from the pain from broken bones througout the last months of pregnancy. Doesn't this sound like fun (from genereviews)



html_removed
More than 60% of affected infants die on the first day; 80% die within the first week; survival beyond one year is exceedingly rare and usually involves intensive support such as continuous assisted ventilation [Byers et al 1988]. Death usually results from pulmonary insufficiency related to the small thorax, rib fractures, or flail chest because of lack of stable ribs. Those who survive the first few days of life may not be able to take in sufficient calories because of respiratory distress.


Flail chest is when your ribs are broken preventing you from breathing well.

I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize what you heard was not what I meant...
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7 years ago  ::  Mar 03, 2011 - 10:21PM #38
mainecaptain
Posts: 21,796

Mar 3, 2011 -- 9:12PM, REteach wrote:


Only about half of all conceptions end in a healthy baby--quite apart from human intervention. Apparently God does believe in abortion since so many pregnancies end in spontaneous abortion. Many OBs will not even bother to see patients before about 8 weeks because so many pregnancies will be lost by then.


There is a certain birth defect called osteogenesis imperfecta type II.  These babies suffer severe broken bones in utero and often die shortly after birth.  What would we call a parent who didn't give pain meds to a baby with broken bones? Abusive? Yet some think it is so important not to abort the baby that they are willing to let it suffer from the pain from broken bones througout the last months of pregnancy. Doesn't this sound like fun (from genereviews)


html_removed More than 60% of affected infants die on the first day; 80% die within the first week; survival beyond one year is exceedingly rare and usually involves intensive support such as continuous assisted ventilation [Byers et al 1988]. Death usually results from pulmonary insufficiency related to the small thorax, rib fractures, or flail chest because of lack of stable ribs. Those who survive the first few days of life may not be able to take in sufficient calories because of respiratory distress.


Flail chest is when your ribs are broken preventing you from breathing well.




I doubt those against abortion ever really think about it, they have their minds may up and really do not care about how the unborn, they want born will suffer. With little exception, I really don't think it has anything to do with the unborn and everything to do with power and control over someone else.


Because most show no interest at all once it is born. And that is when real need begins. Need for clothing, food, medical care and protection begins.


I see no abortion opponent seeking better affordable heath care services for children once born. Or they would not be trying to repeal the affordable health care act.

A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. Aristotle
Never discourage anyone...who continually makes progress, no matter how slow. Plato..
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives" Jackie Robinson
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7 years ago  ::  Mar 03, 2011 - 10:26PM #39
Girlchristian
Posts: 13,685

Mar 3, 2011 -- 10:21PM, mainecaptain wrote:


Mar 3, 2011 -- 9:12PM, REteach wrote:


Only about half of all conceptions end in a healthy baby--quite apart from human intervention. Apparently God does believe in abortion since so many pregnancies end in spontaneous abortion. Many OBs will not even bother to see patients before about 8 weeks because so many pregnancies will be lost by then.


There is a certain birth defect called osteogenesis imperfecta type II.  These babies suffer severe broken bones in utero and often die shortly after birth.  What would we call a parent who didn't give pain meds to a baby with broken bones? Abusive? Yet some think it is so important not to abort the baby that they are willing to let it suffer from the pain from broken bones througout the last months of pregnancy. Doesn't this sound like fun (from genereviews)


html_removed More than 60% of affected infants die on the first day; 80% die within the first week; survival beyond one year is exceedingly rare and usually involves intensive support such as continuous assisted ventilation [Byers et al 1988]. Death usually results from pulmonary insufficiency related to the small thorax, rib fractures, or flail chest because of lack of stable ribs. Those who survive the first few days of life may not be able to take in sufficient calories because of respiratory distress.


Flail chest is when your ribs are broken preventing you from breathing well.




I doubt those against abortion ever really think about it, they have their minds may up and really do not care about how the unborn, they want born will suffer. With little exception, I really don't think it has anything to do with the unborn and everything to do with power and control over someone else.


Because most show no interest at all once it is born. And that is when real need begins. Need for clothing, food, medical care and protection begins.


I see no abortion opponent seeking better affordable heath care services for children once born. Or they would not be trying to repeal the affordable health care act.




Are you talking about politicians or are you making such blanket accusations about people you don't know?

"No matter how dark the moment, love and hope are always possible." George Chakiris

“For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible.” Stuart Chase
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7 years ago  ::  Mar 03, 2011 - 11:53PM #40
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,782

Mar 3, 2011 -- 11:59AM, mountain_man wrote:


Mar 3, 2011 -- 11:11AM, mytmouse57 wrote:

Don't forget the other half of the formula -- teaching young men to take responsiblity for their actions,....


By choosing to either continue with the pregnancy or have it ended early IS taking responsibility for their actions. Just because you disapprove of their decision does not mean they are not taking responsibility.





I'm talking about men not knocking a woman up and then running away.


THat's what I disapprove of. Unless you think it's cool for a guy to get laid, get the woman pregnant and then totally disown the deed. If so, you have one sorry-assed view of manhood.


In many cases -- including some I know of personally -- the woman would not have been in the posistion where she felt she had to consider an abortion as an option if the man hadn't just ran away and dissappeared, thereby absolving himself of any responsibility in the matter.


Anyway, that's what I was talking about.


 


 

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