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Switch to Forum Live View South Dakota's new abortion law
3 years ago  ::  Jun 26, 2011 - 1:58AM #61
watcher59
Posts: 1,606

And, your proof and evidence that Planned Parenthood is "coercing women to have abortions or submit to sterilization"??? None.


Proof? No. Anectdotal evidence? Yes. I know six women who have confided as much to me. 


You clearly think women are naive, simple-minded, uneducated, child-like souls who aren't intelligent enough to "know what's good for them!", to "know what they really need and want!", or to be able to determine their own fates and destinies..."


You, clearly, are not psychic. According to PP's own statistics, the demographic of the average client is; A single woman 17-29 at or below 150% of the federal poverty line. Is it your assertion that sophisticated, well educated, intelligent, responsible women are utilizing PP? Let me share a quote from Margaret Sanger regarding who she thought PP should target; "It now remains for the U.S. government to set a sensible example to the world by offering a bonus or yearly pension to all obviously unfit parents who allow themselves to be sterilized by harmless and scientific means. In this way the moron and the diseased would have no posterity to inherit their unhappy condition. The number of the feeble-minded would decrease and a heavy burden would be lifted from the shoulders of the fit."


Women telephone Planned Parenthood to make appointments. They drive themselves to Planned Parenthood to discuss options. They talk. They listen. They think. They decide. They choose.


These women are alone, desperate, scared, trapped and vulnerable. No one in that condition is able to make rational decisions. PP knows this and takes advantage of it. 


And, if someone tries to "coerce" them into something or even succeeds in "coercing" them into something they did not want, they are smart enough to know they have been wronged and courageous enough to file a complaint about the jerk who "coerced" them. Planned Parenthood knows women are No Less Intelligent than men are when it comes to making personal and sometimes tough decisions about their bodies, their health, and their lives. Planned Parenthood Trusts Women.


I think I'll let Ms. Sanger reply to that; "The most serious charge that can be brought against modern “benevolence” is that it encourages the perpetuation of defectives, delinquents and dependents. These are the most dangerous elements in the world community, the most devastating curse on human progress and expression"

How strangely will the Tools of a Tyrant pervert the plain Meaning of Words!
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3 years ago  ::  Jun 26, 2011 - 3:41AM #62
Mmichael
Posts: 157

Jun 26, 2011 -- 1:58AM, watcher59 wrote:


And, your proof and evidence that Planned Parenthood is "coercing women to have abortions or submit to sterilization"??? None.


Proof? No. Anectdotal evidence? Yes. I know six women who have confided as much to me. 


You clearly think women are naive, simple-minded, uneducated, child-like souls who aren't intelligent enough to "know what's good for them!", to "know what they really need and want!", or to be able to determine their own fates and destinies..."


You, clearly, are not psychic. According to PP's own statistics, the demographic of the average client is; A single woman 17-29 at or below 150% of the federal poverty line. Is it your assertion that sophisticated, well educated, intelligent, responsible women are utilizing PP? Let me share a quote from Margaret Sanger regarding who she thought PP should target; "It now remains for the U.S. government to set a sensible example to the world by offering a bonus or yearly pension to all obviously unfit parents who allow themselves to be sterilized by harmless and scientific means. In this way the moron and the diseased would have no posterity to inherit their unhappy condition. The number of the feeble-minded would decrease and a heavy burden would be lifted from the shoulders of the fit."


Women telephone Planned Parenthood to make appointments. They drive themselves to Planned Parenthood to discuss options. They talk. They listen. They think. They decide. They choose.


These women are alone, desperate, scared, trapped and vulnerable. No one in that condition is able to make rational decisions. PP knows this and takes advantage of it. 


And, if someone tries to "coerce" them into something or even succeeds in "coercing" them into something they did not want, they are smart enough to know they have been wronged and courageous enough to file a complaint about the jerk who "coerced" them. Planned Parenthood knows women are No Less Intelligent than men are when it comes to making personal and sometimes tough decisions about their bodies, their health, and their lives. Planned Parenthood Trusts Women.


I think I'll let Ms. Sanger reply to that; "The most serious charge that can be brought against modern “benevolence” is that it encourages the perpetuation of defectives, delinquents and dependents. These are the most dangerous elements in the world community, the most devastating curse on human progress and expression"





Thank you for admitting that you have no proof that Planned Parenthood "coerces women to have abortions or submit to sterilizations".


I kind of guessed you were "living in the 1950s". Thank you for confirming that by quoting Margaret Sanger several times. Many of our Founding Fathers supported the buying and selling of human beings for slave labor. (Take all their portraits down! Remove them from our coins! Get rid of their statues! They owned slaves, for God's sake!) The Catholic Church burned "heretics" at the stake. (Impeach all Catholic legislators! Deny Catholics the right to vote or run for office!) The Mormon Church preached that African-Americans were inferior to white people until 1978!!! (Deny Mormons the right to vote or run for office!)


Planned Parenthood today rightfully rejects racism and eugenics. PP is not the organization trying to tell women What To Do with their bodies and their lives. It is "Pro-Life" organizations doing that. It is Churches and Clergymen doing that. It is legislators and judges doing that. PP is fighting to allow women to Make Their Own Choices and fighting to protect them from those who would force them to "submit" to an organization's views, a Church's views, a politician's views. It is laughable to accuse PP of "coercing women" when it is those who oppose PP who are trying as hard as they can to "coerce women" into remaining pregnant and giving birth against their will.


By the way, I guess I am psychic when I say that you have a low regard for womens' intelligence. Look at your own words! You say women who visit PP are NOT Sophisticated, Intelligent, Well-Educated, or Responsible!!! (Maybe you're actually living in the 1850s, not the 1950s.) Look at your own words! You say women who visit PP are "alone, desperate, scared, trapped, vulnerable, and irrational"!!! (I guess you think You're psychic!) I understand why some people don't want to admit, acknowledge, or accept that women who visit PP for a variety of reasons, including abortion services, are intelligent, responsible, and rational. It's because some people want to use the "women who have abortions are victims, too" argument. What is YOUR reason for not accepting that women who visit PP Know What They Are Doing??? PP does NOT "take advantage" of women, as you say. Again, women who visit PP Make The Choice Themselves to use the services (including abortion services) that PP offers. PP workers do not drag pregnant women from their homes and force them to have abortions! PP wants women to have choices. You apparently do not. So, who is the "coercer" here?


All that aside, thanks for your posts!

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3 years ago  ::  Jun 26, 2011 - 12:06PM #63
watcher59
Posts: 1,606

The hypocracy of the founding fathers is a great parallel to the abortion issue.


In the preamble to the Declaration of Independence they stated; "...We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed..."


They justified slavery by insisting that Africans were not humans. Four score and seven years later, this country fought a civil war partly to correct that hypocracy. Subsequent Legislatures have correctly broadened that precept to include women.  


Ironically, pro-abortion advocates argue that a three week old fetus is not a child but that it is merely a mass of parasitic cells. Ergo, it is not entitled to life. Dehumanizing a person or a people makes it much easier to inflict injustice, up to and including wrongful death, upon them. It is long past time to protect the unborn with the rule of law. Obviously, the majority of the governed of South Dakota are begining to agree with me.


I am not prepared to meet you on the field of honor to resolve our disagreement. I am, after all, a pro-life advocate. However, I am willing to debate you, or anyone, that abortion is murder and should be outlawed.

How strangely will the Tools of a Tyrant pervert the plain Meaning of Words!
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3 years ago  ::  Jun 26, 2011 - 7:33PM #64
simonzur
Posts: 3,660

Mar 2, 2011 -- 9:50PM, solfeggio wrote:

The South Dakota Senate has backed and sent to the governer a bill requiring women to follow various procedures before they can have an abortion:

legis.state.sd.us/sessions/2011/Bill.asp...

tdn.com/news/national/article_a23b45aa-0...

Before having an abortion, a woman must first meet with a doctor who will determine whether or not she has been 'coerced' into deciding she must have an abortion.  Following this, she must set up an appointment at a pregnancy help centre, to have counselling and advice.

After doing this, the woman must sign a consent form and schedule an appointment for the abortion 72 hours later.  But, she can only do this if the people counselling her have determined that her decision to end the pregnancy is voluntary and informed.

Reading through the various provisions of this bill, it would seem that it infringes upon a woman's rights as stated in the 9th Amendment.



I see nothing in the 9th amendment that gives women or anyone else the right to murder children, but you do bring up an interesting point.  Are these lessers restrictions on abortion violations of other rights that women may have?  Hmmmmmmm....  I don't think so.  It is the fruit of a poisoned tree.  These laws would not be necessary, nor would they be passed if states were free, as they should be, to protect the life of unborn children.  In my book, most rights are revoked when a person decides to murder.

"The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp."~ The Revelation
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3 years ago  ::  Jun 27, 2011 - 10:37AM #65
watcher59
Posts: 1,606

"In my book, most rights are revoked when a person decides to murder."

Astoundingly, it's the same in the law books of all fifty states.

How strangely will the Tools of a Tyrant pervert the plain Meaning of Words!
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3 years ago  ::  Jul 01, 2011 - 4:19PM #66
MysticWanderer
Posts: 1,322


As was expected the law is now under an injunction pending court challenge.  the portions dealing with the pregnancy counseling center requirement will certainly not pass the challenge and the 72h waiting period has already been ruled an onerous requirement in the past.  At best they will keep the requirement that the physician certainly that the woman was not coerced for what that is worth which is nothing!  Another waste of both the SD and federal taxes.


Article: news.yahoo.com/federal-judge-blocks-sout...

"Not all who wander are lost" J.R.R.Tolkein
You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. ~Anne Lamott
"Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain."
Friedrich von Schiller
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