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3 years ago  ::  Nov 01, 2010 - 4:21PM #91
allthegoodnamesweretaken
Posts: 11,634

Nov 1, 2010 -- 3:56PM, Yavanna wrote:


When other animals build skyscrapers, toast pop tarts and develop the wheel then I'll consider us the same. In the meantime we're responsible for the effects we have and the power we wield. We've got a duty based on the invasive and destructive behavior we've committed in the past few thousand years.




 


We might have a duty, but we are not separate.  That's just why I don't get the "leave em alone", and "we have to pick up where they left off" talk.  We are animals.  Behaving like animals. 


 


all

Yesterday, in America, 100 million gun owners did nothing.
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3 years ago  ::  Nov 01, 2010 - 4:32PM #92
Yavanna
Posts: 3,149

Nov 1, 2010 -- 4:21PM, allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:


Nov 1, 2010 -- 3:56PM, Yavanna wrote:


When other animals build skyscrapers, toast pop tarts and develop the wheel then I'll consider us the same. In the meantime we're responsible for the effects we have and the power we wield. We've got a duty based on the invasive and destructive behavior we've committed in the past few thousand years.




 


We might have a duty, but we are not separate.  That's just why I don't get the "leave em alone", and "we have to pick up where they left off" talk.  We are animals.  Behaving like animals. 


 


all




This is where I agree with the Matrix comparisons. We don't behave like anything else in the animal kingdom.

The dwarves of yore made mighty spells,
While hammers fell like ringing bells
In places deep, where dark things sleep,
In hollow halls beneath the fells.

For ancient king and elvish lord
There many a gloaming golden hoard
They shaped and wrought, and light they caught
To hide in gems on hilt of sword.
- J.R.R. Tolkien
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3 years ago  ::  Nov 01, 2010 - 5:52PM #93
allthegoodnamesweretaken
Posts: 11,634

We make tools, and have a massive inferiority complex, but other than that, I think we are just overthinking it.  We're not that different from the other animals. 


 


all

Yesterday, in America, 100 million gun owners did nothing.
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3 years ago  ::  Nov 02, 2010 - 3:57AM #94
Yavanna
Posts: 3,149

Nov 1, 2010 -- 5:52PM, allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:


We make tools, and have a massive inferiority complex, but other than that, I think we are just overthinking it.  We're not that different from the other animals. 


 


all





When they build strip malls, hunt eachother to extinction, dump toxic waste and pollute on massive scales I'll consider us to be alike.

The dwarves of yore made mighty spells,
While hammers fell like ringing bells
In places deep, where dark things sleep,
In hollow halls beneath the fells.

For ancient king and elvish lord
There many a gloaming golden hoard
They shaped and wrought, and light they caught
To hide in gems on hilt of sword.
- J.R.R. Tolkien
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3 years ago  ::  Nov 02, 2010 - 7:44AM #95
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,767

Nov 2, 2010 -- 3:57AM, Yavanna wrote:


Nov 1, 2010 -- 5:52PM, allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:


We make tools, and have a massive inferiority complex, but other than that, I think we are just overthinking it.  We're not that different from the other animals. 


 


all





When they build strip malls, hunt eachother to extinction, dump toxic waste and pollute on massive scales I'll consider us to be alike.





Animals would do all those things, if they had the capacity to do so. IOW, what is lacking on their part is the capacity, not some great and noble refusal to be stupid or evil on their part.


 

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3 years ago  ::  Nov 02, 2010 - 7:48AM #96
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,767

Nov 1, 2010 -- 5:52PM, allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:


We make tools, and have a massive inferiority complex, but other than that, I think we are just overthinking it.  We're not that different from the other animals. 


 


all





It's when we don't think/act like animals that we get the best results. When we do, we just keep merrily whistling down the path to destruction.

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3 years ago  ::  Nov 02, 2010 - 11:47AM #97
allthegoodnamesweretaken
Posts: 11,634

Nov 2, 2010 -- 7:44AM, mytmouse57 wrote:


Nov 2, 2010 -- 3:57AM, Yavanna wrote:


Nov 1, 2010 -- 5:52PM, allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:


We make tools, and have a massive inferiority complex, but other than that, I think we are just overthinking it.  We're not that different from the other animals. 


 


all





When they build strip malls, hunt eachother to extinction, dump toxic waste and pollute on massive scales I'll consider us to be alike.





Animals would do all those things, if they had the capacity to do so. IOW, what is lacking on their part is the capacity, not some great and noble refusal to be stupid or evil on their part.


 




 


This^


 


Nov 2, 2010 -- 7:48AM, mytmouse57 wrote:


Nov 1, 2010 -- 5:52PM, allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:


We make tools, and have a massive inferiority complex, but other than that, I think we are just overthinking it.  We're not that different from the other animals. 


 


all





It's when we don't think/act like animals that we get the best results. When we do, we just keep merrily whistling down the path to destruction.




 


And more often, we keep whistling down the path to destruction. 


 


all

Yesterday, in America, 100 million gun owners did nothing.
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3 years ago  ::  Nov 02, 2010 - 4:05PM #98
Yavanna
Posts: 3,149

I don't presume to know how animals would behave if they evolved to our level. There's no reason to assume every species would be as destructive as us. It's complete conjecture.

The dwarves of yore made mighty spells,
While hammers fell like ringing bells
In places deep, where dark things sleep,
In hollow halls beneath the fells.

For ancient king and elvish lord
There many a gloaming golden hoard
They shaped and wrought, and light they caught
To hide in gems on hilt of sword.
- J.R.R. Tolkien
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3 years ago  ::  Nov 02, 2010 - 4:30PM #99
solfeggio
Posts: 8,528

The longer I post in these forums, as my thinking evolves, the more I find myself agreeing with the basic positions taken by allthegood and Mouse regarding wildlife and the human condition. 


I agree unequivocally with their assertion that we are all animals and that we're all basically the same in our desire to eat, procreate, and live as best we can.


No species is superior to any other species.  No species has dominion over anything.  It really is a level playing field.


Suffering, misery, and death are all around us, all the time.  The innocent suffer as much or more as the guilty.  There is no universal justice.


Most humans are as pedatory as carnivores.  And none of us know what we might be capable of if the situation arose.


And, most important of all, nature itself is unimaginably cruel. 


I'm not too keen on the setup myself, but this is our world, like it or not.


Which is why I've long since given up on religions, holy books, and gods. 


For whatever reason, we're all here, living our puny little nothing lives for a pathetically short span of years, and whatever we do or don't do is meaningless in the great scheme of things. 


I used to think we all just might be holograms.  Nowadays, I lean towards that more and more.

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3 years ago  ::  Nov 02, 2010 - 4:32PM #100
Yavanna
Posts: 3,149

Well, as long as you're happy.

The dwarves of yore made mighty spells,
While hammers fell like ringing bells
In places deep, where dark things sleep,
In hollow halls beneath the fells.

For ancient king and elvish lord
There many a gloaming golden hoard
They shaped and wrought, and light they caught
To hide in gems on hilt of sword.
- J.R.R. Tolkien
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