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Switch to Forum Live View 20 week abortion restrictions
4 years ago  ::  Oct 15, 2010 - 11:54AM #1
Cesmom
Posts: 4,659


New abortion restrictions are taking effect in Nebraska that are based on the idea of fetal pain.


The Nebraska law bans abortions after 20 weeks of pregnancy based on the idea of fetal pain, a departure from the standard of viability established by the 1972 Roe v. Wade ruling.



Doctors are at odds about when a fetus can feel pain. But it's an issue that could change the way abortions are regulated in the United States.


Bolstered by the unique law in his home state, Republican Sen. Mike Johanns is pushing for a new federal discussion of the notion of fetal pain.


Legislation recently reintroduced by Johanns would require women
seeking abortions after 20 weeks to be told the fetus could feel pain and allow them to request anesthesia for the fetus.



 


www.1011now.com/home/headlines/Neb_Abort...


 


Reasonable?  Too restrictive?  At what point should a line be drawn?

Our need to learn should always outweigh our need to be right

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

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4 years ago  ::  Oct 16, 2010 - 3:27PM #2
jlb32168
Posts: 13,249

The questions open up a can of worms.  If a fetus feels pain then aborting it w/o anesthetic is simply barbaric.  If a woman requests anesthesia for the abortion, then she's essentially conceding that the unborn child is a separate entity and not a part of her body.  She's also conceding that abortion is a monstrously painful event.


Still - I think the questions it brings up should be asked.

Victim of this, victim of that, your mama’s too thin and your daddy’s too fat, get over it! - the Eagles
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4 years ago  ::  Oct 18, 2010 - 9:30AM #3
faith713
Posts: 3,892

 If the mother cares enough to not want the child to feel pain then it makes no sense to allow their son or daughter to be killed. 


 

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."--John14:6

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.-- John 3:16

"We love Him because He first loved us."--1 John 4:9-10

"There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear ... "
1 John 4:18
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4 years ago  ::  Oct 18, 2010 - 9:46AM #4
Cesmom
Posts: 4,659

Oct 18, 2010 -- 9:30AM, faith713 wrote:


If the mother cares enough to not want the child to feel pain then it makes no sense to allow their son or daughter to be killed. 





You're assuming that the mother sees the fetus as being a child.  Legally, the fetus is not considered a child, but personally, everyone is going to see that in their own way.  If the woman does not see the fetus as a child, does that mean she feels no compassion?  I think not.

Our need to learn should always outweigh our need to be right

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

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4 years ago  ::  Oct 18, 2010 - 8:39PM #5
Iwantamotto
Posts: 8,154

Animals feel pain.  We have no real problem offing them.  Okay, we do.  Sometimes.  If you're an animal lover and a carni/omnivore, then that problem can seem arbitrary.  I think, at any rate, it makes more sense to determine viability, not "pain capability".  Pain means little, IMHO.  I would think the ability to live out in the real world would be the more pressing issue.  There are humans with depressed or missing senses of pain.  Should we feel free to kill them?

Knock and the door shall open.  It's not my fault if you don't like the decor.
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4 years ago  ::  Oct 19, 2010 - 11:27AM #6
faith713
Posts: 3,892

Oct 18, 2010 -- 9:46AM, Cesmom wrote:


Oct 18, 2010 -- 9:30AM, faith713 wrote:


If the mother cares enough to not want the child to feel pain then it makes no sense to allow their son or daughter to be killed. 





You're assuming that the mother sees the fetus as being a child.  Legally, the fetus is not considered a child, but personally, everyone is going to see that in their own way.  If the woman does not see the fetus as a child, does that mean she feels no compassion?  I think not.




Legal doesn't make it right to harm another human being.


Some people don't see neonates as "a child", so if it were legal and they gave them pain medicine before killing them, would that make it OK?

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."--John14:6

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.-- John 3:16

"We love Him because He first loved us."--1 John 4:9-10

"There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear ... "
1 John 4:18
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3 years ago  ::  Mar 08, 2011 - 12:47PM #7
Cesmom
Posts: 4,659

Update:


Grand Island mom carried non-viable pregnancy due to law


journalstar.com/news/state-and-regional/...


 

Our need to learn should always outweigh our need to be right

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

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3 years ago  ::  Mar 10, 2011 - 5:13PM #8
MysticWanderer
Posts: 1,328

CES, this is one of the problems we run into when legislators get involved in this complex and medically evo9lviong issue.  There are always exceptions or issue not considered from ignorance and the patient (woman) suffers.  I once had a patient while in the AF who had an anencephalic fetus.  We wanted to send her to an AF facility to terminate the pregnancy since the fetus was not only nonviable but insensate!  We were blocked because an amendment to the appropriations bills prevented the military medical system from terminating ANY pregnancy except in the case of a threat to the life of the mother.  She went home to Mom and Dad and Northwestern U. Medical Center solved the problem, at the family's expense of course.

"Not all who wander are lost" J.R.R.Tolkein
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"Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain."
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3 years ago  ::  Mar 11, 2011 - 10:22AM #9
Cesmom
Posts: 4,659

I do think there still need to be legal restrictions as to when an abortion can be performed, but I think the laws need to be written more carefully to protect mothers in cases like this.  If you leave the law completely out of it, you're opening the door for an unethical doctor (yes, I know most doctors are ethical, but not all) to do whatever they want with no legal consequence. 


I just think that these kind of restrictions need to be very carefully handled, and this one obviously wasn't.  The thing that surprises and disappoints me is that the senator who introduced the bill is saying that it "worked as intended." 

Our need to learn should always outweigh our need to be right

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

More people would learn from their mistakes if they weren't so busy denying them.
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3 years ago  ::  Jun 26, 2011 - 12:59PM #10
watcher59
Posts: 1,606

Oct 18, 2010 -- 8:39PM, Iwantamotto wrote:


Pain means little, IMHO.  I would think the ability to live out in the real world would be the more pressing issue.  There are humans with depressed or missing senses of pain.  Should we feel free to kill them?





This has to be one of the top ten examples of convoluted logic I've ever read or heard!
I'm absolutely sure if you have your arms and legs torn from your body your cavalier opinion of pain would change suddenly and drastically. There are humans, who will be viable, in wombs around the world. Why do you feel free to kill them before viability is possible? BTW, a womb is "the real world" for a developing fetus.

How strangely will the Tools of a Tyrant pervert the plain Meaning of Words!
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