Aug 13, 2010 -- 10:16AM, mainecaptain wrote:

Aug 12, 2010 -- 2:35AM, CharikIeia wrote:

 Admittedly not exactly a hot news item, but it could pour oil on the vegan fire :-)

 

I don't eat meat because I do not wish to kill animals. Although Health is important, that is not the reason I gave up meat. So whether ancient man ate meat or not has no bearing on my choices.

This is the best argument and the one that makes it clear there will be no agreement out of the endless debates over scientific and biological "canine teeth, need for protein, length of intestines, historical records, we are omnivorous, we are carnivorous, our ancestors ate meat, etc., etc.

This is a cultural and awareness issue. Empathy cannot be transmited or taught.

Many of the arguments for eating meat are basically the same as for keeping slavery: "They are not really human. Scientists say black is an inferious race. They are strong and meant for menial work. The economy needs slavery.  Even the Supreme Court says they are 3/5th of a white. No harm in it".

All rationalizations to justify  a lack of empathy. These arguments sound ridiculous today, but many believed  they were  logical.

 I don't know of any meat eater who started to do it after being convinced by examining the evidence. Which makes me think, their arguments are a way to justify what they are already doing and want to do .

I too have gone back and forth on this.  I was vegetarian for about 10 years, vegan for about a year...then I got pregnant and began to strongly crave meat... Now I eat meat.  It does bother me, the idea of eating animals.  I can't eat anything that looks like what it is.  Maybe this is being dishonest...I mean, if I'm going to eat it I should be willing to kill it...or at least look at it in it's true animal form...but I'm not.

I don't understand twisted logic.  If Hitler was a vegetarian, why does that convict all vegetarians?  What does that have to do with vegetarianism?  Hitler wore pants too.  Does that mean those who wear pants are suspect too?  Stalin was an alcoholic and a meat eater.  If you look inside the prisons of the U.S., you will find an inordinate amount of heavy drinkers as well as an ample number of meat eaters.  Few of them qualify for sainthood. 

Food choices have absolutely nothing to do with character.  Plus, I read a book about Hitler decades ago and I could have sworn that he liked sausage.  I may be remembering wrong but I need to look that up.

They're already working on producing meat in the lab. In a few years, you'll be able to buy lab-made meat that did not require the killing of an animal. Who knows? It might even taste good.

As a 19-year vegetarian who gave up meat despite meat being my favorite food group, I don't think I would eat lab-made meat anyway. I began to view the vegetarian diet as a form of purity long before I quit eating flesh. I would likely stay that way.

It does not surprise me that people ate a lot of meat millions of years ago. You eat what you have to in order to survive. But I predict that in the future, we will evolve into fruitarians and we will evolve the ability to take all our nutrients from fruit.

(For anyone who thinks fruitarianism means only apples and oranges and the like, it doesn't.)

Very few meat eaters are tolerant of Vegans. 

Controlling people come in all stripes and they all want to control other people.

If Hitler was a vegetarian, I doubt he did it for spiritual reasons being that he was not a spiritual man.  Gandhi, otoh, was spiritual and was a vegetarian.

When I gave up meat, I had no desire to control other people.  I did it for health reasons but it didn't hurt my feelings that I wasn't eating animals being that I love them so. However, I never disdained meat eaters but I certainly was the target of meat eaters' wrath. 

One of Hitler's many problems is that he applied rules to the point of being OCD.  Rules were more important than any moral law.  Rules were more important than human life or value.  He was a sick evil man. He never loved anyone.  He never had empathy for anyone.  He could not feel the horror he imposed on others.  He also had a perverse desire to rid the world of a great and brilliant people.  People that were far superior to himself. People that did not threaten him or the world.  The fact that he realized that smoking was not healthy does not mean that smoking is really healthy.  Just because he got a few things right doesn't have anything to do with his overall evil.  To use HItler as a reason to alter a life's choice is rather bizarre.  In a funny way, that is allowing Hitler to make a life decision for you.  That is rather creepy.  I would hate to admit that I gave up vegetarianism because Hitler practced it.  It is also stupid.  Stalin wasn't a Vegetarian.  So, why is HIlter more influential in your life than Stalin?  I just don't get it. 

My neighbor who beats his wife on a regular basis is a drunk meat eater.  The inability to follow any rule does not make one a good person either. It makes one a psychopath.  The absence of empathy is more important than what moral code one follows. 

I also disagree that only those that have experienced vices are the ones qualified to pass judgment on it.  I think those that have been victims of other people's vices know a thing or two as well.  Plus, only stupid people think that only if one jumps off a cliff that one can comprehend that it is not the wisest of moves.  Sometimes, good sense prevents people from making bad choices. I, personally, prefer to learn from people with enough sesne to avoid bad choices rather than from those with bad sense that can only learn after crashing off the cliffs. Even that requires moderation.

Once again, I think it all comes down to moderation in all things--even moderation.