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Switch to Forum Live View Ohio Wants a Second Try at Executing Inmate - Your Thoughts?
5 years ago  ::  Dec 10, 2009 - 9:15PM #51
mountain_man
Posts: 39,763

Dec 10, 2009 -- 9:00PM, Callielou wrote:

You are wrong Mountainman. I'm a Christian and a right wing nut. I do not believe in execution!



I sincerely apologize.


I should  have qualified that with a "many" or "some." There are many good Christians that do not support capital punishment and would not ever support the mistreatment that others here have suggested. Those Christians are the ones that speak out against the death penalty and hold the vigils outside the institutions where the murder is taking place. I don't have to believe in their god to respect their position on this topic. We could use more people like them.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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5 years ago  ::  Dec 10, 2009 - 9:18PM #52
mountain_man
Posts: 39,763

Dec 10, 2009 -- 9:15PM, Roodog wrote:

On what basis do you base your  unconditional opposition to killing? Surely not on the Sixth Commandment.



I do not need some made up god to tell me right from wrong. Murder is wrong. Making up a good excuse to murder someone you do not like does not make it right.


On what basis do non theists agree to not f*** other people in terms of morality...



It's one of those things that if you have to ask the question, you won't understand the answer. Your bias and hatred of Atheists is well known. Nothing I could say would change that. And I'm tired of explaining something to people that don't want to understand but just argue about it.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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5 years ago  ::  Dec 10, 2009 - 9:19PM #53
Abner1
Posts: 6,403

Roodog wrote:


> If there is no God, then the Sanctity of Human Life is a wicked delusion. 


But the *value* of human life is just as possible for atheists as for theists.  Indeed, from some (not all) of the theists in this discussion, it appears that the value of human life to many atheists is greater than the sanctity of human life to many theists.


Just because you get your value for human life from your theism (and thus think that humans are worthless if your God does not exist) does not mean that your religion is the *only* way for someone to put a value on human life.  There are many paths to that conclusion, not just yours.

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5 years ago  ::  Dec 10, 2009 - 9:21PM #54
Callielou
Posts: 30,654

Dec 10, 2009 -- 9:15PM, Choiceofath wrote:


Dec 10, 2009 -- 9:12PM, Callielou wrote:


Dec 10, 2009 -- 9:08PM, Choiceofath wrote:


Dec 10, 2009 -- 9:05PM, mountain_man wrote:


Dec 10, 2009 -- 8:52PM, Choiceofath wrote:

like i said mountain man...how would you feel if this man commited the crime against your daughter sister or mother?



The same as many others; don't kill. It is wrong to kill especially for revenge. Killing someone would not bring back my loved one. It would only cause more hatred.





So your saying if a man raped and murdered your mother you would forgive them?I must say...i envy you





Life without parole, I think is more harsh punishment plus it is not as expensive





If broom lived for another 25 years how would it be cheaper?3 meals a day for 25 years?i believe injection is cheaper





I used to believe that also but it is a fact. Court appeals and legal issues cost more.

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5 years ago  ::  Dec 10, 2009 - 9:24PM #55
Abner1
Posts: 6,403

Roodog wrote:


> On what basis do non theists agree to not f*** other people in terms of morality,


> honesty ethics in business. Where and how do you come up with your sense of decency?


> If there is no God to answer to, why be a decent fellow at all? You say that to forgive


> is humanistic, why forgive at all?


I base my morality on my empathy for others - on the fact that I care for other human beings.  I really can't understand people whose only reason for not 'f***'ing other people left and right is that they believe in a God who forbids that ... but if that is really the only reason why you try to be a decent fellow at all, all I can say is please, please never lose your faith!


I, in the meantime, am a decent fellow because I don't like what will happen to other people if I am not.  If you can't understand that, it's unfortunate, but happily your religion restrains you from doing all the horrible things you want to do.

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5 years ago  ::  Dec 10, 2009 - 9:26PM #56
Abner1
Posts: 6,403

Callielou wrote:


> I used to believe that also but it is a fact. Court appeals and legal issues cost more.


Callielou is correct - if you do the calculations, it really does cost more on the average to execute than to give life in prison, so the economics argument for execution doesn't hold water - and, indeed, if that's really why someone is for the death penalty, then after reading up on the economics of the matter, they would switch to the other side.  The fact that they generally don't do so means that the economics isn't really the issue, it's just a convenient argument.

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5 years ago  ::  Dec 10, 2009 - 9:30PM #57
Callielou
Posts: 30,654

Dec 10, 2009 -- 9:15PM, mountain_man wrote:


Dec 10, 2009 -- 9:00PM, Callielou wrote:

You are wrong Mountainman. I'm a Christian and a right wing nut. I do not believe in execution!



I sincerely apologize.


I should  have qualified that with a "many" or "some." There are many good Christians that do not support capital punishment and would not ever support the mistreatment that others here have suggested. Those Christians are the ones that speak out against the death penalty and hold the vigils outside the institutions where the murder is taking place. I don't have to believe in their god to respect their position on this topic. We could use more people like them.





Thank you MOUNTAIN-MAN. Some of us still have common sense.

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5 years ago  ::  Dec 10, 2009 - 9:32PM #58
Choiceofath
Posts: 9

Excuse me for jumping in on my grandson site.  I'm one who can talk from experience.  If the person could'nt find a vein but kept on trying(you keep on going)If yout cant find a vein go straight for the balls...ill guarantee youll find the veins there.

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5 years ago  ::  Dec 10, 2009 - 9:38PM #59
Merope
Posts: 10,257

Dec 10, 2009 -- 8:37PM, Roodog wrote:

If an animal like a bear or a cat were to endanger  people by coming into  a neighborhood, the animal ought to be removed and placed in an isolated location. This some times does not work and the animal has to be euthanized. Before you go onto the speil about invading the Animal's habitat, Denver is not built in bear or cougar country, yet we have had these animals come into Denver and its adjacent suburbs. I have, in my own home, been serenaded at night by coyotes who were  in the gully across the street from my house.


When a person has been proved to have committed murder, and perhaps multiple murders the options are limited.


1. Lock him up in the general population endangering the other convicts.


2  Lock him in solitary confinement for the rest of his life which is unspeakably inhumane.


3. Euthanize the prisoner.



Roo, as much as we are disgusted (and rightly so) by the acts of capital murderers, these murderers are still human beings; our state and federal statutes recognize this, as do our state and federal constitutions.  These people are not animals, even though they may have behaved as animals.


In terms of your listed options, condemned prisoners in death penalty states are typically (if not always) segregated from the rest of a prison's population from the get-go, regardless of those prisoners' levels of dangerousness to other inmates.  They live on death row with (and only with) all other condemned inmates in whichever prison their states' executions are held.  The only time an inmate leaves the row alive to reside permanently in another part of the prison (or another prison) is when the inmate's death sentence is commuted to life or less.


Also, condemned prisoners are not necessarily any more or less a danger to other inmates than non-condemned prisoners. 


Additionally, states generally have either entire prisons tailored according to levels of dangerousness of the inmates (for instance, Pelican Bay in California -- for the most dangerous of the non-condemned inmates, lifers and less) or prisons segregated by area in which prisoners are incarcerated in particular areas according to their levels of dangerousness to other inmates and/or the dangerousness of the offenses of which they've been convicted.

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5 years ago  ::  Dec 10, 2009 - 9:41PM #60
Callielou
Posts: 30,654

Dec 10, 2009 -- 9:32PM, Choiceofath wrote:


Excuse me for jumping in on my grandson site.  I'm one who can talk from experience.  If the person could'nt find a vein but kept on trying(you keep on going)If yout cant find a vein go straight for the balls...ill guarantee youll find the veins there.





Oh come now, two wrongs doesn't make a right.

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