One of the dumbest instances I recall on lethal injection execution was the defense lawyer insisting that the injection needle be certified sterile.

Dec 23, 2009 -- 10:38AM, Marcion wrote:

Where does society obtain the right to take a human life collectively when it is murder for an individual to do so. Don't rights of a society stem from individual  rights.

Dec 23, 2009 -- 12:10PM, mountain_man wrote:

Well, maybe our society does not frown on killing. In fact, society itself kills everytime there is an excecution. Why do we have this double standard? We say yes to society killing and no to an individual. Both are wrong. Execution is wrong.

That's right, this so called "society" kills to show it frowns on killing. That's a perfect example of 'hypocrisy."

It is considered a very major crime for an individual to take another individual against their will and lock them up for years. When it happens, it's often bigger news than most murders. 

Yet no one claims that it is "hypocritical" for a society to lock up criminals for years in prison. 

And no, societal rights do not stem from individual rights, individual rights stem from society. Individual rights only exist because of society. Society doesn't have "rights," society has responsibilities. Rights must be protected by some force, otherwise they are just wishes. If society had a right, what would be enforcing that right? 

Society enforces the right of people to not be killed. Society enforces the right of people to not be locked up for years against their will. Society can remove these rights when necessary. 

~Stalker

Dec 21, 2009 -- 1:58PM, Christianlib wrote:

Sorry, appy, I can't join you in that blood lust.

I'm all for locking someone up forever.  Killing is simply uncivilized vengenance.  It is in no way "justice."

I'm just playing devil's advocate here...

I'm not for capital punishment either. I'm in the boat with CLib when she quoted Sister Perjean when she said that it's not a question of whether or not someone deserves to die as much as whether we deserve to be able to kill them. However, a class of mine in college once toured the state prison in NC...the stories the guards told and seeing the weapons they had confiscated from prisoners, well let's just say I didn't want to eat afterward.  The prison population tended to react even more strongly to people who were in for killing or raping children...either the person would be put in protective custody or solitary confinement, either way they'd spend the vast majority of the time alone. 

That IMO is another point for why keeping someone locked up can be more of a punishment than executing them.  Sometimes I wonder if that might actually be the more *merciful* thing to do, given how inmates can treat each other.

I agree with the others who've mentioned death being a choice offered to a prisoner who would otherwise be in prison for life, especially if they were in solitary confinement. That could be an example of possibly being merciful.

Society derives that right from the will of the governed. Many states have gone back and forth over whether to have the death penalty in my lifetime. A person who has killed--especially a serial killer like Ted Bundy who has already deprived several individuals of their lives--has chosen to do so. He never expressed or apparently felt remorse. The closest he came to any "sympathy" for the families of his victims was when he started offering to clear up more "missing persons" cases in return for a stay of execution. As I recall, it didn't work.

There may indeed be a genetic marker or a cog loose or whatever in serial killers, rapists, or serial pedophiles that will be found someday. At present, they certainly don't seem to feel that the lives of their victims have any intrinsic value that deserves any respect.

And slightly off-topic--there was a short sci-fi story about a man being rewarded for saving a small god's life. Every century it was turned into a small animal for 24 hours for changing a pawn to a queen in a chess game with another immortal. While the little god Eep was grateful, his gratitude wasn't worth more than a few dollars. So a winning lottery ticket, etc, would be only worth this small amount. In the end, the man who had saved the little creature was surprised to have the woman he was in love with suddenly show up at his door that evening and spend the night with him. In the morning, he found a little note explaining that the combined chemicals that made up the human body added up to exactly the price limit the little creature could reward anyone. Talking about the "intrinsic value" reminded me of it--I don't remember the exact amount other than it being under $4...but then it was published in 1966.