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Switch to Forum Live View They just don't get it.....
5 years ago  ::  Nov 20, 2009 - 10:14PM #1
mountain_man
Posts: 38,742

I just heard that a program that has been proven beyond a doubt to be ineffective and at times harmful - abstinence only - has been given some money by an addition to the health insurance support bill now going through Congress. Instead of trying to curb abortions they are actually causing more. They just don't get it.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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5 years ago  ::  Nov 20, 2009 - 11:04PM #2
Bei1052
Posts: 986

1.) Obama cut the funding for this last month.


2.) Source?


3.) Oh wait... I forgot. He's ignoring me lol

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5 years ago  ::  Nov 20, 2009 - 11:10PM #3
Mmichael
Posts: 157

Nov 20, 2009 -- 10:14PM, mountain_man wrote:


I just heard that a program that has been proven beyond a doubt to be ineffective and at times harmful - abstinence only - has been given some money by an addition to the health insurance support bill now going through Congress. Instead of trying to curb abortions they are actually causing more. They just don't get it.





The right-wing Christian members of Congress (both Republican and Democrat) don't want to be "confused with the facts". Their loudest constituents are telling them that they have to be 100% "pure" (right-wing) on sex education, abortion, stem-cell research, health care, taxes, guns, gays, etc. And, if they are not 100% "pure" they will not be re-elected. These voters would rather have cowardly, spineless, terrified Representatives and Senators who make their decisions based on "getting re-elected", rather than having members of Congress who use facts, logic, and reason in deciding what is in the best interests of the American people and America's children.

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5 years ago  ::  Nov 21, 2009 - 12:00AM #4
Bei1052
Posts: 986

Didn't NARAL, or was it PPoA, just try to threaten the Democratic members of the House and Congress if they don't relax abortion restrictions (Which, by the way, the majority of Americans support)?


<_<


Politics works both ways. It's funny like that.


Edit: And America's children deserve to be crushed by a mounting deficit and the trillions of dollars of interest that comes along with it. Well, apparently, anyway.

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5 years ago  ::  Nov 21, 2009 - 12:44AM #5
mountain_man
Posts: 38,742

Nov 20, 2009 -- 11:10PM, Mmichael wrote:

The right-wing Christian members of Congress (both Republican and Democrat) don't want to be "confused with the facts". Their loudest constituents are telling them that they have to be 100% "pure" (right-wing) on sex education, abortion, stem-cell research, health care, taxes, guns, gays, etc. And, if they are not 100% "pure" they will not be re-elected. These voters would rather have cowardly, spineless, terrified Representatives and Senators who make their decisions based on "getting re-elected", rather than having members of Congress who use facts, logic, and reason in deciding what is in the best interests of the American people and America's children.



They could not care less what their constituents want. They care only about getting campaign donations and endorsements from the larger, right wing, christian groups. It's about the money, not what is best for America. Doing the right thing might get in the way of being re-elected.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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5 years ago  ::  Nov 21, 2009 - 3:32AM #6
Mmichael
Posts: 157

Nov 21, 2009 -- 12:44AM, mountain_man wrote:


Nov 20, 2009 -- 11:10PM, Mmichael wrote:

The right-wing Christian members of Congress (both Republican and Democrat) don't want to be "confused with the facts". Their loudest constituents are telling them that they have to be 100% "pure" (right-wing) on sex education, abortion, stem-cell research, health care, taxes, guns, gays, etc. And, if they are not 100% "pure" they will not be re-elected. These voters would rather have cowardly, spineless, terrified Representatives and Senators who make their decisions based on "getting re-elected", rather than having members of Congress who use facts, logic, and reason in deciding what is in the best interests of the American people and America's children.



They could not care less what their constituents want. They care only about getting campaign donations and endorsements from the larger, right wing, christian groups. It's about the money, not what is best for America. Doing the right thing might get in the way of being re-elected.





Very true. I said "loudest constituents" because I do know that these politicians ignore the majority of voters in their districts and only pay attention to those who can threaten to stop the flow of right-wing money.

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5 years ago  ::  Nov 21, 2009 - 9:12AM #7
newsjunkie
Posts: 5,741

Nov 21, 2009 -- 12:00AM, Bei1052 wrote:


Didn't NARAL, or was it PPoA, just try to threaten the Democratic members of the House and Congress if they don't relax abortion restrictions (Which, by the way, the majority of Americans support)?


<_<


Politics works both ways. It's funny like that.


Edit: And America's children deserve to be crushed by a mounting deficit and the trillions of dollars of interest that comes along with it. Well, apparently, anyway.




Unfortunately, bei, most americans want all the care and medical expenditures possible for themselves and their family, but don't want to pay for it. There is too little in the health care bills to address cost containment, but I still support the legislation bcs more people will be insured. Eventually, however, somebody's either going to have to pay for health care or we will have to restrict benefits. In many other countries, the gov't health care is a basic plan, and people are free to buy additional insurance if they want. It would've made more sense to do that here, instead of trying to give all Americans "the same health care as Congress has."


I wish both sides of the abortion debate would've kept out of the health care reform battle. I heard on NPR's Morning Edition last week that only something like 15% of abortions are paid for by insurance. It's another one of those non-issues that political partisans use to create conflict that is intended to harm their political opponents. Of course there is always collateral damage, but politicans don't care.


We have a situation in the US right now where the baby boomers have begun to retire. Of course they will gobble up all the resources they can in Medicare and Soc. Sec. I was born in 1960, tail end of the baby boom. I expect to get nothing out of So. Sec. -- nothing will be left. These programs should be means tested, but that will be fought tooth and nail. Sadly, too many people would rather take money from their children and grandchildren so that they can take an extra vacation in their old age than pay for it themselves or go without. Such is human nature, I guess.

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5 years ago  ::  Nov 21, 2009 - 9:21AM #8
newsjunkie
Posts: 5,741

Nov 20, 2009 -- 11:04PM, Bei1052 wrote:


1.) Obama cut the funding for this last month.


2.) Source?


3.) Oh wait... I forgot. He's ignoring me lol




Here's something that explains the situation. and another blog, from Newsweek.

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5 years ago  ::  Nov 21, 2009 - 11:21AM #9
mountain_man
Posts: 38,742

Nov 21, 2009 -- 9:12AM, newsjunkie wrote:

Unfortunately, bei, most americans want all the care and medical expenditures possible for themselves and their family, but don't want to pay for it.



That simply is not true. People want AFFORDABLE health care. They want for profit insurance companies to stop interfering with their treatments and taking over half their health care dollars for profits and overhead.


There is too little in the health care bills to address cost containment...



That's because of graft in congress.


I wish both sides of the abortion debate would've kept out of the health care reform battle. ...



The right wingers, the ones that put up a nonstop din of nonsense about keeping the government out of our health care are the same ones that put something in the health insurance support bill that puts limits care for over half the US population. Now they want to fund a program that has been proved ineffective at best and often harmful. Have they lost all brain cells?

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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5 years ago  ::  Nov 21, 2009 - 12:07PM #10
newsjunkie
Posts: 5,741

Nov 21, 2009 -- 11:21AM, mountain_man wrote:


Nov 21, 2009 -- 9:12AM, newsjunkie wrote:

Unfortunately, bei, most americans want all the care and medical expenditures possible for themselves and their family, but don't want to pay for it.



That simply is not true. People want AFFORDABLE health care. They want for profit insurance companies to stop interfering with their treatments and taking over half their health care dollars for profits and overhead.


I think if you stop at that sentence you will be missing my point, which is that people want all kinds of expenditures on THEIR OWN health care (and their close families), but want it for cheap and don't want to pay for others to receive the same level of care. Just look at how the Republicans are making hay out of the new guidelines on mammography and pap tests -- telling people that's the first step in government restricting health care (now of course I know the gov't had nothing to do with the new guidelines and the GOP is not being totally honest). And people do not like that. They think that every possible test should be done "just in case" even if research shows that there is no real benefit from the test, and there are actually negative effects of doing the testing. And if a person or his spouse or child is sick -- that person wants the insurance company, government, or whoever to show up with a boatload of money -- how do we make that affordable?


I do not believe that health care should be for profit -- experience in this country has showed that for profit health care is neither affordable nor highest quality. But even not-for-profit health care has to be paid for.  The current HC reform propsal does raies taxes on people making over $200K per year and taxing money spent on "cadillac plans," IIRC, but that's not going to be enough if you look at the cost projections for the current proposals. That's what I mean by most people not wanting to pay for health care but wanting maximum benefits -- there is not the will of the people to either increase taxes enough so that health care reform will pay for itself or enter into a serious discussion of what services will be covered and, more significantly, which WON'T be covered.


There is too little in the health care bills to address cost containment...



That's because of graft in congress. And because PEOPLE do not want to discuss any caps on benefits. This has been the elephant in the room throughout the discussions over health care reform.


I wish both sides of the abortion debate would've kept out of the health care reform battle. ...



The right wingers, the ones that put up a nonstop din of nonsense about keeping the government out of our health care are the same ones that put something in the health insurance support bill that puts limits care for over half the US population. Now they want to fund a program that has been proved ineffective at best and often harmful. Have they lost all brain cells?





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