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Switch to Forum Live View A good natured challenge for the minds of the pro-life camp!
5 years ago  ::  Nov 04, 2009 - 12:53PM #1
Damianaraven
Posts: 71

What are some ways to eliminate abortion without making any new laws to restrict access to it? If people got together and were determined enough, we could see abortions become drastically reduced simply by granting pregnant women better choices.


I'm in favor of birth control. If one could get birth control (besides condoms) in as many places as one could get.... ohhhh, say, cigarettes or booze, we might see a lot fewer accidental pregnancies. Now, some money would have to be sunk into this project, but it's to a good end if you're not devoutly Catholic.


I say there should be a birth control "clinic" in every drug store, with pharmacists trained to dispense treatments like the pill and Depo. Unaffordable doctor's bills or hours spent at the health department being treated like cattle can have a very prohibitive effect on young and/or broke and/or unintelligent people. No minimum age should be imposed, no unduly nosy questions asked, and nobody huffily refused because the pharmacist had a crisis of conscience. (I'd consider that a firing, possibly license-revoking offense. Go be a preacher if you want to preach and leave medicine to the objective!)


If anybody listened to me about this, there goes a massive chunk of your abortions right there!

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5 years ago  ::  Nov 04, 2009 - 1:06PM #2
Tolerant Sis
Posts: 4,201

Okay, I'm prolife in that I care about living people, but probably not what you had in mind.


Yes, birth control everywhere.  Pay for it with a tax on Viagra if necessary. Make birth control cheap or free, and provide clinics in each and every high school in the country.  Educate kids about all the options.  Teach girls and boys how to use the various methods before they are ever in a position to need it.  Hand out condoms as people leave dance halls, bars, and restaurants.  


That'll take care of a lot of crisis pregnancies (as well as a lot of STDS), because they won't happen.


But for those that do, provide health care, assistance in housing, food, and transportation to encourage girls to give birth rather than abort (if that is our goal, here).  Make adoption FREE to would-be adoptive parents by financing the mother's needs.  Make adoptions final on the day the child goes home with the new parents - mom doesn't get to change her mind (and dad doesn't get a say, either) after that.  Done.  Baby is now with mom and dad. Or dad and dad.  Or mom and mom. Or what have you.


For all, whether in a crisis pregnancy or not, improve access to health care to families, improve education, improve housing for families, improve access to quality food, improve public transportation.  Make day care available before school, and after school, to encourage women to hold down jobs or complete their educations.  Make quality preschool available to all.  Enlist the help of baby nurses to assist parents who are having trouble with young babies.


 

First amendment fan since 1793.
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5 years ago  ::  Nov 04, 2009 - 1:14PM #3
Damianaraven
Posts: 71

Nov 4, 2009 -- 1:06PM, Tolerant Sis wrote:


Okay, I'm prolife in that I care about living people, but probably not what you had in mind.


Yes, birth control everywhere.  Pay for it with a tax on Viagra if necessary. Make birth control cheap or free, and provide clinics in each and every high school in the country.  Educate kids about all the options.  Teach girls and boys how to use the various methods before they are ever in a position to need it.  Hand out condoms as people leave dance halls, bars, and restaurants.  


That'll take care of a lot of crisis pregnancies (as well as a lot of STDS), because they won't happen.


But for those that do, provide health care, assistance in housing, food, and transportation to encourage girls to give birth rather than abort (if that is our goal, here).  Make adoption FREE to would-be adoptive parents by financing the mother's needs.  Make adoptions final on the day the child goes home with the new parents - mom doesn't get to change her mind (and dad doesn't get a say, either) after that.  Done.  Baby is now with mom and dad. Or dad and dad.  Or mom and mom. Or what have you.


For all, whether in a crisis pregnancy or not, improve access to health care to families, improve education, improve housing for families, improve access to quality food, improve public transportation.  Make day care available before school, and after school, to encourage women to hold down jobs or complete their educations.  Make quality preschool available to all.  Enlist the help of baby nurses to assist parents who are having trouble with young babies.


 




Will you be my sister? I'll totally love you like one!

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5 years ago  ::  Nov 04, 2009 - 1:51PM #4
Mmichael
Posts: 157

Equal pay for equal work.

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5 years ago  ::  Nov 04, 2009 - 3:22PM #5
mountain_man
Posts: 39,475

Nov 4, 2009 -- 12:53PM, Damianaraven wrote:

What are some ways to eliminate abortion without making any new laws to restrict access to it? If people got together and were determined enough, we could see abortions become drastically reduced simply by granting pregnant women better choices.



That's not what they want. According to these people sex is bad and women that have sex for recreation need to be punished. They also believe that if you tell kids about sex that those kids will go out and have sex. They live in a fantasy world.


I'm in favor of birth control.



They are not. It would make recreational sex acceptable. These people that live in that fantasy world need to feel they are superior in all ways - expecially morally superior. It's not about babies for them, it's about control and superiority.


I say there should be a birth control "clinic" in every drug store, with pharmacists trained to dispense treatments like the pill and Depo.....



Birth control should be covered in a universal health car plan with a single payer. It should be free for anyone that wants it. But again, that would not be acceptable to those that have that psychotic need to feel superior.


If anybody listened to me about this, there goes a massive chunk of your abortions right there!



Then how would they feel superior?

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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5 years ago  ::  Nov 04, 2009 - 3:29PM #6
newsjunkie
Posts: 5,744

Nov 4, 2009 -- 12:53PM, Damianaraven wrote:


What are some ways to eliminate abortion without making any new laws to restrict access to it? If people got together and were determined enough, we could see abortions become drastically reduced simply by granting pregnant women better choices.




Remove the social stigma against "out-of-wedlock" pregnancy. Religious moralists: you go first.

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5 years ago  ::  Nov 04, 2009 - 7:56PM #7
Damianaraven
Posts: 71

I'm hearing a lot of good feedback, but is any of it from the pro-life front? I can't always tell who's who on this board. Undecided

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5 years ago  ::  Nov 05, 2009 - 5:50AM #8
Tmarie64
Posts: 5,277

Nov 4, 2009 -- 3:29PM, newsjunkie wrote:


Remove the social stigma against "out-of-wedlock" pregnancy. Religious moralists: you go first.




What "stigma"???  Everywhere you look now there are single knocked up women, single parents around every corner.    There's no "stigma" any more.  There should be a little bit of a stigma so MAYBE women will stop spreading'em for the guy that they know has 5 or 6 kids by the same number of women.


There's a stigma on the family that dares to have two kids, a father, a mother and everyone has the same last name.  You would not believe the comments I've gotten from people when they realize that everyone in my household has the same last name and my husband and I are both parents to both kids.  

James Thurber - "It is better to know some of the questions than all of the answers."
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5 years ago  ::  Nov 05, 2009 - 10:49AM #9
Damianaraven
Posts: 71

Nov 5, 2009 -- 5:50AM, Tmarie64 wrote:


What "stigma"???  Everywhere you look now there are single knocked up women, single parents around every corner.    There's no "stigma" any more.  There should be a little bit of a stigma so MAYBE women will stop spreading'em for the guy that they know has 5 or 6 kids by the same number of women.


There's a stigma on the family that dares to have two kids, a father, a mother and everyone has the same last name.  You would not believe the comments I've gotten from people when they realize that everyone in my household has the same last name and my husband and I are both parents to both kids.  




I think you just demonstrated the stigma in question by jumping right into the stereotype that most single mothers have numerous kids with different last names, and "spread 'em" for any guy without thinking. Further claiming that there seems to be a stigma on the "normal" family only makes you seem even more judgemental and bitter.


There are a lot of women out there who were simply abandoned by the men that cared for them and their child(ren). They weren't sluts, they didn't shack up with nine men or smoke crack. They (for a common example) may have had two kids with a husband who suddenly decided that Tammy Twinkletush deserved his income a little more.


I don't care how many people say that child support laws make it too hard to ditch a family. The child support office is not a very compassionate bureaucracy. They're grossly overworked, for one thing. Furthermore, since they're dealing mostly with women, there seems to be an underlying attitude of "if only these hoochies would stop making babies." If you were unfortunate and amoral enough to have a child (gasp!) out of wedlock, then the process becomes much more complicated. Paternity has to be established and believe it or not, there's quite a waiting list for that. Meanwhile, the months and years breeze by and the mothers are left to raise their kids with no help and plenty of contempt.

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5 years ago  ::  Nov 05, 2009 - 1:11PM #10
karbie
Posts: 3,329

I agree with you. As for being married and everyone having the same last name--the real stigma comes in from actually being a stay-at-home Mom. I was asked if my husband minded my being a parasite on him since I wasn't bringing in any money.


My favorite form of preventing abortions is making them unnecessary in the first place. Back in the days when the only state that had legalized abortion was New York, there was an OBY/GYN who had a clandestine group of patients. What they had in common was being sexually active before the legal age to do so. It wasn't advertised, of course; each patient had to give a  previous patient's name before he'd see them. It was a real office visit, complete with counseling and exam. He was risking his license with each girl who came to him. His stance was that he would rather have these girls come to him for birth control pills than to come looking for help he couldn't give them. I was glad he was never outted; in fact he ended up being the head of the Board of Health for the state years later. And he deserved it for delivering help instead of out--of-wedlock children.


Did you know that the fact that children had been born out of wedlock used to be on their birth certificates? You'd get a copy of your birth certificate, it would say "Bastard"--and you were dirty and shameful and your chances of a decent life were jeopardized for something you hadn't been responsible for except as the "Silent Witness" that showed up some 9 months later. If there's a stigma, it belongs anywhere but on the kids.


there's nothing wrong with same last name families. When my cousin married, his wife had a child out of wedlock. He adopted him and it was part of the service. That little boy had always called him by his first name, but for  at least the first few months afterward you'd have been amazed at how often he could put "my Dad" or "Dad" in a sentence. He's a great kid and great big brother.


Yeah, real live health coverage for all of us would be wonderful.


Don't worry--there's always going to be something for them to be morally superior about.

"You are letting your opinion be colored by facts again."
'When I want your opinion, I'll give it to you."
these are both from my father.
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