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Switch to Forum Live View Abortion is Murder.
5 years ago  ::  Oct 27, 2009 - 4:26PM #21
faith713
Posts: 3,892

Oct 27, 2009 -- 4:17PM, Xxchristin022xx wrote:


 


No I am not judging you as insensitive. I am telling you...you are insensitive.


Who are you to say that no one should have an abortion.  If someone you loved was raped and got pregnant, would you judge that person for having an abortion?  I think it is frankly a personal decision and not your business.  If you don't believe in abortion, don't have one, but don't judge those who feel it is in their best interest.




No I am not judging a person for having an abortion. I am telling them...abortion is wrong.


Who are you to judge who deserves to live or die?


The same could be said for someone who commits infanticide, If you don't believe in infanticide, don't have one, but don't judge those who feel it is in their best interest.


Is that no one's business either?


See how that works?


 

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."--John14:6

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.-- John 3:16

"We love Him because He first loved us."--1 John 4:9-10

"There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear ... "
1 John 4:18
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5 years ago  ::  Oct 27, 2009 - 4:35PM #22
Xxchristin022xx
Posts: 67

Oct 27, 2009 -- 4:26PM, faith713 wrote:


Oct 27, 2009 -- 4:17PM, Xxchristin022xx wrote:


 


No I am not judging you as insensitive. I am telling you...you are insensitive.


Who are you to say that no one should have an abortion.  If someone you loved was raped and got pregnant, would you judge that person for having an abortion?  I think it is frankly a personal decision and not your business.  If you don't believe in abortion, don't have one, but don't judge those who feel it is in their best interest.




No I am not judging a person for having an abortion. I am telling them...abortion is wrong.


Who are you to judge who deserves to live or die?


The same could be said for someone who commits infanticide, If you don't believe in infanticide, don't have one, but don't judge those who feel it is in their best interest.


Is that no one's business either?


See how that works?


 




It is your opinion abortion is wrong. 


I do not judge who deserves to live or die...God does....a mother with an unwanted pregnancy does...not me.


I think there is a lot of mental illness with infanticide. 


I do not think you can compare infanticide and abortion.


In your thinking, if abortion is so wrong, then why would God have made abortion an option for women. 


Once again, if you do not believe in abortion, then don't have one, but really it is none of your business.


And I would really like you to answer, what you would do if you were raped or your mother or your grandmother or your daughter were raped and got pregnant?  Is abortion okay then?

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5 years ago  ::  Oct 27, 2009 - 5:37PM #23
Damianaraven
Posts: 71

Oct 27, 2009 -- 4:35PM, Xxchristin022xx wrote:


It is your opinion abortion is wrong. 


I do not judge who deserves to live or die...God does....a mother with an unwanted pregnancy does...not me.


I think there is a lot of mental illness with infanticide. 


I do not think you can compare infanticide and abortion.


In your thinking, if abortion is so wrong, then why would God have made abortion an option for women. 


Once again, if you do not believe in abortion, then don't have one, but really it is none of your business.


And I would really like you to answer, what you would do if you were raped or your mother or your grandmother or your daughter were raped and got pregnant?  Is abortion okay then?




I don't think you're going to get a straight answer from this person, even if they frantically check the Teacher's Edition of the Bible to find one. The Bible does not actually frown upon the act of rape, if one were to thoroughly read the Old Testament. In fact, rape is considered the prerogative of "God's chosen" in Biblical battles. God also doesn't seem to mind the killing of innocent babies. (Check out 2 Samuel 12:11-14 of the New American Bible.)


It isn't a good idea to wave the Bible at me if one is looking to defend the position of the pro-life movement. This book will not help any argument in favor of the sweet, innocent, precious little baaaaaaybeeees.

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5 years ago  ::  Oct 27, 2009 - 5:51PM #24
mountain_man
Posts: 39,125

Oct 27, 2009 -- 2:48PM, Xxchristin022xx wrote:

I am  Christian, but I do see that they can be very judgemental.  I do not think religion necessarily has anything to do with this subject, other than a lot of Christians do not believe in abortions because they think it is immoral.



It's a vicious circle for them. They judge others because they believe that such judgements make them look better in the eyes of others. The more harshly they judge the better they believe others look up to them. Now we have a large chunk of our society that get into outrageous contests to see who can be the most judgemental, the most pious, and the most hateful. Even I, an Atheist, knows that is not what the biblical Jesus was preaching.


I am just saying that I think everybody, not just Christians, should be less judgmental.  Do I make mistakes? Yes.  Can I be judgmental? Yes.  But I think it is something everyone should work on.



Humans are imperfect. That does not mean we should try harder to do better. You're right, we, as a species, need to work on many things. Maybe in a few thousand years we'll get it right.Cool

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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5 years ago  ::  Oct 27, 2009 - 5:52PM #25
mountain_man
Posts: 39,125

Oct 27, 2009 -- 3:22PM, faith713 wrote:


Uh oh...are you judging me as being insensitive?




Why not? Everyone else is.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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5 years ago  ::  Oct 27, 2009 - 6:12PM #26
Xxchristin022xx
Posts: 67

Oct 27, 2009 -- 5:51PM, mountain_man wrote:


Oct 27, 2009 -- 2:48PM, Xxchristin022xx wrote:

I am  Christian, but I do see that they can be very judgemental.  I do not think religion necessarily has anything to do with this subject, other than a lot of Christians do not believe in abortions because they think it is immoral.



It's a vicious circle for them. They judge others because they believe that such judgements make them look better in the eyes of others. The more harshly they judge the better they believe others look up to them. Now we have a large chunk of our society that get into outrageous contests to see who can be the most judgemental, the most pious, and the most hateful. Even I, an Atheist, knows that is not what the biblical Jesus was preaching.


I am just saying that I think everybody, not just Christians, should be less judgmental.  Do I make mistakes? Yes.  Can I be judgmental? Yes.  But I think it is something everyone should work on.



Humans are imperfect. That does not mean we should try harder to do better. You're right, we, as a species, need to work on many things. Maybe in a few thousand years we'll get it right.



Hopefully in a few thousand years we will get it, but probably not.  If it is not this we are dealing with, it will be something else.  I agree everything you said about Christians.  I am Christian, but I do realize the flaws with in.  I appreciated your post! :)

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5 years ago  ::  Oct 27, 2009 - 6:33PM #27
Bei1052
Posts: 986

Oct 27, 2009 -- 2:27PM, Kwinters wrote:

From p 22:


*snippity*


Your source.


More likely to have used contraception, not less.



That's correct. I can read-- Especially considering that was part of the section I told you to read. However-- And what I see you ignored-- The part that was relevant was how about 54% of woman obtaining their first abortion were using some form birth control at the time they became pregnant (That means that 46% was not); how 54% of woman obtaining their second abortion were using some form of birth control at the time they became pregnant (46% was not); and how 50% of woman obtaining their third or more abortion were using some form of birtch control at the time they became pregnant (50% was not). Even if you're the most ardent of PC'ers, even you would have to admit that something is seriously wrong there.


As to your other comments:


1) I never believe anything unsourced from whatever the accepted term is here for those who oppose abortion because they have been caught in so many lies.



I've said this once on here and I'll say it again, but I have no reason to lie.


2) If you regard women, as a category of human beings, who are mentally, morally or emotionally incapable of making decisions about their lives, their families and their collective futures then you DO demean women.



So... Telling a woman what she cannot do to another is demeaning them? If that's the case, then I'm happy to, as you put it, demean them. Now, let me ask you a question: If a woman has a child whom she doesn't want to take care of anymore because it's impeding on her in some way, shape or form, should the government prevent her from bringing harm to that child? Why, on Earth then, do we view women who kill their children as psychopaths? You could argue that they're merely doing what's best for themselves (But, then again, you won't accept that argument).


That is the POINT of that kind of language and that perspective: women are incapable of making the 'right' decision so we must use the power of the state to 'force' them to make the right choice.



Right decisions seldom involve killing another human being out of convenience. Imagine if, just like a woman can do now in regards to abortion, everyone was able to act solely out of self-interest and had to pay no regard for the effects their actions might have on another. You'd have people running around impeding on the life and well-being of another-- A situation you would find less-than-rosey. So, the question is, why should a woman be allowed to do as she wants willy-nilly simply because it's "her body", even though that would involve inflicting harm on another?


And, on another note, does no one seriously not see the absolute irony in MM's posts?

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5 years ago  ::  Oct 27, 2009 - 7:09PM #28
faith713
Posts: 3,892

Oct 27, 2009 -- 5:37PM, Damianaraven wrote:


Oct 27, 2009 -- 4:35PM, Xxchristin022xx wrote:


It is your opinion abortion is wrong. 


I do not judge who deserves to live or die...God does....a mother with an unwanted pregnancy does...not me.


I think there is a lot of mental illness with infanticide. 


I do not think you can compare infanticide and abortion.


In your thinking, if abortion is so wrong, then why would God have made abortion an option for women. 


Once again, if you do not believe in abortion, then don't have one, but really it is none of your business.


And I would really like you to answer, what you would do if you were raped or your mother or your grandmother or your daughter were raped and got pregnant?  Is abortion okay then?




I don't think you're going to get a straight answer from this person, even if they frantically check the Teacher's Edition of the Bible to find one. The Bible does not actually frown upon the act of rape, if one were to thoroughly read the Old Testament. In fact, rape is considered the prerogative of "God's chosen" in Biblical battles. God also doesn't seem to mind the killing of innocent babies. (Check out 2 Samuel 12:11-14 of the New American Bible.)


It isn't a good idea to wave the Bible at me if one is looking to defend the position of the pro-life movement. This book will not help any argument in favor of the sweet, innocent, precious little baaaaaaybeeees.




Sounds like something the enemy of Christ would say. FYI Jesus loves babies.

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."--John14:6

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.-- John 3:16

"We love Him because He first loved us."--1 John 4:9-10

"There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear ... "
1 John 4:18
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5 years ago  ::  Oct 27, 2009 - 7:18PM #29
faith713
Posts: 3,892

Oct 27, 2009 -- 4:35PM, Xxchristin022xx wrote:


It is your opinion abortion is wrong.



As a Christian shouldn't we follow God's opinion of abortion? Or is your opinion greater than God's? 


Oct 27, 2009 -- 4:35PM, Xxchristin022xx wrote:


I do not judge who deserves to live or die...God does....a mother with an unwanted pregnancy does...not me.



Only God gets to decide, not the parent.


Oct 27, 2009 -- 4:35PM, Xxchristin022xx wrote:

 think there is a lot of mental illness with infanticide. 


I do not think you can compare infanticide and abortion.



Both end the life of an innocent person.


Oct 27, 2009 -- 4:35PM, Xxchristin022xx wrote:

 your thinking, if abortion is so wrong, then why would God have made abortion an option for women. 



Because God gives us free will, abortion abuses that free will.


Oct 27, 2009 -- 4:35PM, Xxchristin022xx wrote:

 again, if you do not believe in abortion, then don't have one, but really it is none of your business.



If you don't believe in murder, don't murder anyone, it is none of your business. See how that works?


Oct 27, 2009 -- 4:35PM, Xxchristin022xx wrote:

 And I would really like you to answer, what you would do if you were raped or your mother or your grandmother or your daughter were raped and got pregnant?  Is abortion okay then?




No, abortion is not OK then. 

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."--John14:6

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.-- John 3:16

"We love Him because He first loved us."--1 John 4:9-10

"There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear ... "
1 John 4:18
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Cancel
5 years ago  ::  Oct 27, 2009 - 7:31PM #30
Xxchristin022xx
Posts: 67

Oct 27, 2009 -- 7:18PM, faith713 wrote:


Oct 27, 2009 -- 4:35PM, Xxchristin022xx wrote:


It is your opinion abortion is wrong.



As a Christian shouldn't we follow God's opinion of abortion? Or is your opinion greater than God's? 


Oct 27, 2009 -- 4:35PM, Xxchristin022xx wrote:


I do not judge who deserves to live or die...God does....a mother with an unwanted pregnancy does...not me.



Only God gets to decide, not the parent.


Oct 27, 2009 -- 4:35PM, Xxchristin022xx wrote:

 think there is a lot of mental illness with infanticide. 


I do not think you can compare infanticide and abortion.



Both end the life of an innocent person.


Oct 27, 2009 -- 4:35PM, Xxchristin022xx wrote:

 your thinking, if abortion is so wrong, then why would God have made abortion an option for women. 



Because God gives us free will, abortion abuses that free will.


Oct 27, 2009 -- 4:35PM, Xxchristin022xx wrote:

 again, if you do not believe in abortion, then don't have one, but really it is none of your business.



If you don't believe in murder, don't murder anyone, it is none of your business. See how that works?


Oct 27, 2009 -- 4:35PM, Xxchristin022xx wrote:

 And I would really like you to answer, what you would do if you were raped or your mother or your grandmother or your daughter were raped and got pregnant?  Is abortion okay then?




No, abortion is not OK then. 




I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree.  I don't think this a black and white subject, there is a lot of gray.  But you just want to "preach".  Personally, I have heard everything you have said before...mainly from a family member who had an abortion when she was 18...and then found Christ later in her life.

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