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5 years ago  ::  Aug 12, 2009 - 12:19PM #11
Tmarie64
Posts: 5,277

Faith... So, you think it's ok for a woman who very probably would die if she delivered be denied treatment?


You didn't read about the woman who was turned away by Dr. Hern because, to paraphrase what he said... "She was raped and just waited too long to make a decision"... She had waited until 35 weeks to decide she didn't want the product of her rape.


You also didn't read about the teen he turned away because she wished all abortionists would be killed, but she wanted an abortion, in spite of her "ethics".


Ignorance is STUPID... anyone who is blissful in their ignorance is stupid.  Refusal to learn is stupid.


It's easy to be judgmental when you live in a daughter free, white bread world.

James Thurber - "It is better to know some of the questions than all of the answers."
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5 years ago  ::  Aug 12, 2009 - 5:12PM #12
Marysara722
Posts: 2,548


Now you see 'em, now you don't.
Suffice to say that a few posts were removed.


Because they were "personal attacks" instead of debating and/or discussing the thread's topic.
Please don't turn posts into a personal attack soapbox about members but instead, stick to the topic!


Consider this notice in-place of a direct email.



Carry on . . .

MSara
Bnet Community Host


 

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5 years ago  ::  Aug 12, 2009 - 5:37PM #13
faith713
Posts: 3,892

Aug 12, 2009 -- 12:19PM, Tmarie64 wrote:


Faith... So, you think it's ok for a woman who very probably would die if she delivered be denied treatment?


You didn't read about the woman who was turned away by Dr. Hern because, to paraphrase what he said... "She was raped and just waited too long to make a decision"... She had waited until 35 weeks to decide she didn't want the product of her rape.


You also didn't read about the teen he turned away because she wished all abortionists would be killed, but she wanted an abortion, in spite of her "ethics".


Ignorance is STUPID... anyone who is blissful in their ignorance is stupid.  Refusal to learn is stupid.


It's easy to be judgmental when you live in a daughter free, white bread world.



The majority of  the abortions are not for medically necessary reasons. Dr. Hern slaughters thousands of babies for no good medical reason.


He also hurts women in the process:


 "Another patient who required transfusion experienced a uterine perforation during the D&E procedure.  This patient’s pregnancy was advanced to 23 weeks’ gestation, and an attempt at urea amnioinfusion was unsuccessful.  A decision was made to perform the D&E without the benefit of urea, and the procedure proved to be extremely difficult.  At one point, the patient complained of abdominal pain at the same time that difficulty was experienced in removing the tissue.  A perforation was suspected, and the procedure was completed under direct ultrasound visualization without difficulty.  After the uterus was emptied, it was explored with a Kelly uterine forceps by sensation and ultrasound visualization.  A perforation site could not be identified.  The patient was observed in the recovery room, and tissue examination revealed what appeared to be mesenteric fat.  The patient showed diminished bowel sounds, fain rebound tenderness, and pallor upon standing.  Vital signs remained within normal limits, and she felt well.  She was transferred to the hospital where a laparotomy was performed revealing a 2-cm posterior wall uterine defect and an abrasion of the sigmoid colon.... "


www.drhern.com/outptsecondtriab.htm


 

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."--John14:6

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.-- John 3:16

"We love Him because He first loved us."--1 John 4:9-10

"There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear ... "
1 John 4:18
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5 years ago  ::  Aug 12, 2009 - 5:53PM #14
faith713
Posts: 3,892

Aug 12, 2009 -- 10:50AM, Marysara722 wrote:


"Tabloid" magazine? --Esquire?  Way off base.  Way off topic too since the point isn't about "which" magazine the article "about" the doctor was published in.  No, the point was about "the" doctor himself and "what" and "why" he "does" what he does and the "duress" he has to "endure" under the rabid factions of the PLM.



 The article doesn't mention what the babies being tortured and killed have to endure:


 "A frequent problem at the beginning of this series was difficulty in removing the fetal skull from the uterus....


     Both staffing and equipment have become more extensive and specialized as we accepted the more advanced gestations.  One of the principal advantages of this procedure for patients, aside from safety, is the freedom from having to experienced unattended expulsion of a fetus that may or may not show signs of life.7 "www.drhern.com/outptsecondtriab.htm


Ignorant and sick.



"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."--John14:6

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.-- John 3:16

"We love Him because He first loved us."--1 John 4:9-10

"There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear ... "
1 John 4:18
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5 years ago  ::  Aug 12, 2009 - 9:50PM #15
bluehorserunning
Posts: 1,754

Aug 12, 2009 -- 5:37PM, faith713 wrote:

The majority of  the abortions are not for medically necessary reasons. Dr. Hern slaughters thousands of babies for no good medical reason.



from the article:


You are staring at a flyer advertising the clinic's services: "Specializing in late abortion for fetal disorders. Outpatient abortion over twenty-six menstrual weeks for selected patients with documented fetal anomaly, fetal demise, or medical indications."


The opponents of legal abortion often use the phrase "abortion on demand," implying there are no restrictions at all. This characterization is untrue. It has always been illegal, even under Roe v. Wade, to perform abortions after viability without a compelling medical reason. In Kansas, for example, where Dr. Tiller practiced medicine, the law for any abortion after twenty-two weeks requires two doctors to agree that failure to abort would put the mother at risk of "substantial and irreversible harm."


He also hurts women in the process...



General surgeons that remove burst appendices from patients who would die without the surgey also occasionaly hurt their patients.  Doctors putting in subclavian lines - a relatively simple procedure - sometimes pierce their patient's lung, causing it to collapse, necessitating huge amounts of further care at best.  Doctors putting in chest tubes to drain fluid from the thorax, a procedure that is *frequently* necessary to save the life of trauma victims, also sometimes perforate their patient's lungs.


Uterine perforation is a known risk of surgical abortion, just like lung perforation is a known risk of surgical chest tube insertion.  *All* patients undergoing surgery are required to give informed consent to the procedure, meaning that they are informed not only of the risks of the procedure but of how often the negative outcomes happen, and consent to undergo the procedure anyway.

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5 years ago  ::  Aug 12, 2009 - 10:41PM #16
mountain_man
Posts: 38,067

Aug 12, 2009 -- 5:53PM, faith713 wrote:

The article doesn't mention what the babies being tortured and killed have to endure:


Ignorant and sick.



Yes, such distortions of what these doctors are doing is ignorant and sick. They are SAVING the lives of woman and are ignorantly being accused of "killing babies." Thest sick people completely ignore the fact that these babies are not going to live and are presenting a danger to the health of the woman. No, one cannot be more ignorant or sick than to want these woment to suffer and die.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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5 years ago  ::  Aug 13, 2009 - 8:43AM #17
faith713
Posts: 3,892

Aug 12, 2009 -- 9:50PM, bluehorserunning wrote:


from the article:


You are staring at a flyer advertising the clinic's services: "Specializing in late abortion for fetal disorders. Outpatient abortion over twenty-six menstrual weeks for selected patients with documented fetal anomaly, fetal demise, or medical indications."


The opponents of legal abortion often use the phrase "abortion on demand," implying there are no restrictions at all. This characterization is untrue. It has always been illegal, even under Roe v. Wade, to perform abortions after viability without a compelling medical reason. In Kansas, for example, where Dr. Tiller practiced medicine, the law for any abortion after twenty-two weeks requires two doctors to agree that failure to abort would put the mother at risk of "substantial and irreversible harm." 



The truth is Tiller performed elective abortions, one of many that left a dead victim:


"Among pro-life advocates, he is famous for the cruelty with which he treats the unborn.  No case illustrates the extent of this cruelty better than the tragedy of Baby Sarah Brown, one of his many victims.  In 1993, a pregnant teenager and her parents traveled 900 miles to Tiller's office in Kansas to receive an elective late-term abortion:  




Tiller began the abortion by injecting a poisonous syringe through the pregnant teenager's uterus and into the upper left side of the unborn baby's face.  He then instructed the teenager to return the next day for the completion of the abortion.  




To everyone's dismay, the baby did not die during the intervening hours.  After the teenager began to complain of serious abdominal pains, her parents rushed her to a local hospital where the baby was eventually born—alive.  The delivery room staff felt that life-support would be futile, so they wrapped the baby in a bassinet without attendance.  The teenager and her parents quickly left the scene.


Even without medical care, the baby remained alive.  After many hours had passed, the delivery room staff decided to give her treatment.  Miraculously, she managed to survive through the entire ordeal.  "Sarah", as her adoptive parents later named her, lived until the age of 5, when she succumbed to the developmental harm done to her body during the abortion.  The KCl solution that had been injected into the side of her face had left her permanently blind and brain damaged.





Prior to the abortion, Sarah was a perfectly normal baby.  The relevant medical records indicate that she had no disabilities or deformities.  If Tiller hadn't attempted to poison her, she would be a healthy 9 year old girl with an entire life ahead of her.  Instead, she is in a grave."


www.abortionessay.com/files/Tiller.html



 


 

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."--John14:6

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.-- John 3:16

"We love Him because He first loved us."--1 John 4:9-10

"There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear ... "
1 John 4:18
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5 years ago  ::  Aug 13, 2009 - 8:49AM #18
Tmarie64
Posts: 5,277

Just like YOU won't go to a reputable site and read an informative article... I won't go to a right wingnut site put together by liars who would rather see a woman dead.


They have NO proof of anything.  You want credibility?  Post a site that is reputable, NOT a website that is blatantly against abortion.




edited by Justme333 to conform to local guidelines

Moderated by Justme333 on Aug 14, 2009 - 06:49PM
James Thurber - "It is better to know some of the questions than all of the answers."
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5 years ago  ::  Aug 13, 2009 - 9:18AM #19
mountain_man
Posts: 38,067

Aug 13, 2009 -- 8:43AM, faith713 wrote:

The truth is Tiller performed elective abortions, one of many that left a dead victim...



Do you really expect us to believe that coming from a less than honest PL site? You automatically rejected a magazine article, so we can automatically reject your source.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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5 years ago  ::  Aug 13, 2009 - 9:23AM #20
kat8765
Posts: 70

Ok, haven't posted on here in a while but... this article is trying to sympathize with a man who aborts babies ,mostly late term at that.  And if I remember correctly, it said they don't ask why because they don't judge.  That means that they don't care if the baby is healthy and would be able to survive outside the womb, they don't care if the mother is healthy either.  Why? Because he makes lots of money doing this. Do you really think that he would risk his life and his families if he wasn't making a ridiculous amount of money.  HE is putting his family in danger.  I'm not saying that the people going around assassinating doctors are justified in any way.  They def. are not prolife because we value EVERY human life no matter what kind of life they may live.  If you have the time go read about Dr. Nathanson. He is a former abortionist who has come over to our side of the argument.  He actually is the co-founder of NARAL and coined phrased such as pro-choice (mainly to try to make abortion attractive to the womens rights movement).  He and many other doctors make some pretty schocking claims about abortion.  He even says that with medical technology today, there is absolutely no medical reason for abortion.  He has a book called "The Hand of God" which is really interesting as well.  I've heard him speak several times, he is  a wonderful voice out there for us pro-lilfers. 


 

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