I think a valid question in this debate is what kind of reduction in your personal standard of living are you willing to accept in order that the rest of the people have what they need.  I strongly suspect that there is no science to support the idea that we can support 4 times the current number of people on Earth AT THE CURRENT STANDARD OF LIVING OF MOST NORTH AMERICANS.

And remember, it takes more land to support a person than just the ground their house rests on.  It may only take 5 acres (completely made up number) to support a human in Ohio, but I bet it is a whole lot more for Wyoming.  It also takes land to generate the energy for you to farm/ranch/subsist in those places, to provide community services like hospitals and schools and to provide for transportation.

Also, it could be the case that we "run out" of water long before we run out of space to stuff humans --- there are already a lot of battles in the US about who gets to use what water.  Everyone ready to give up their golf courses? Stop washing your cars? Stop washing your clothes? Stop washing yourself?

So whenever anyone throws out the idea that the Earth could support X times the number of people we have now (whatever number floats their boat), you really should ask: at what level of comfort and are you personally ready to cut back on your luxuries to achieve that?

Jul 15, 2009 -- 10:55PM, McAtheist wrote:

I think a valid question in this debate is what kind of reduction in your personal standard of living are you willing to accept in order that the rest of the people have what they need.  I strongly suspect that there is no science to support the idea that we can support 4 times the current number of people on Earth AT THE CURRENT STANDARD OF LIVING OF MOST NORTH AMERICANS.

And remember, it takes more land to support a person than just the ground their house rests on.  It may only take 5 acres (completely made up number) to support a human in Ohio, but I bet it is a whole lot more for Wyoming.  It also takes land to generate the energy for you to farm/ranch/subsist in those places, to provide community services like hospitals and schools and to provide for transportation.

Also, it could be the case that we "run out" of water long before we run out of space to stuff humans --- there are already a lot of battles in the US about who gets to use what water.  Everyone ready to give up their golf courses? Stop washing your cars? Stop washing your clothes? Stop washing yourself?

So whenever anyone throws out the idea that the Earth could support X times the number of people we have now (whatever number floats their boat), you really should ask: at what level of comfort and are you personally ready to cut back on your luxuries to achieve that?

I couldn't agree more with your points, especially the future fresh water problems.

I think most reasonable people would say we as the human race are not doing a very good job creating a good standard of living for most people in our own countries let alone the world as a whole.

If we are doing poorly now there is no reason to believe an increase in world population will not suffer greatly.

Hopefully some of theses G8 initiatives in Africa will help there people built infrastructure for a better life.

I also believe the Church should wake up and end there ridiculous stance on abortion and contraceptives.

That or donate some of there ostentatious art or hills of cash to support the coming population.