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Switch to Forum Live View Majority of Americans now ‘pro-life,’ poll says
6 years ago  ::  May 20, 2009 - 10:19AM #51
amcolph
Posts: 17,990

May 19, 2009 -- 11:56PM, mountain_man wrote:


May 19, 2009 -- 10:54PM, Bei1052 wrote:


Not histrionics. Exasperation....




Maybe if you dumped the histrionics you wouldn't be so exasperated. A dialog would help too.




I have the impression that Bei is not being entirely candid with us.  Perhaps a true dialogue would be risky for him.

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6 years ago  ::  May 20, 2009 - 3:38PM #52
karbie
Posts: 3,329

Back to a rhetorical question-the differece between having an abortion at 1 month after conception and one month before the due date is the viability of the fetus. There is no way that a fetus could survive outside the host at one month. After viability--especially as far along as 8 months--once delivered  and breathing--has no further dependancy on the woman and can be put up for adoption if the woman so chooses; if the male parent is known then he can choose to relinquish his parental rights or take the child himself.


It is good of you to be a Big Brother--and I mean that sincerely.


As for the $10 package of condoms--think how many abortions could be prevented if men let more than a smile be their umbrella rather than use them. OF course, since any school that wanted any federal funding couldn't teach anything but abstinence, we've failed to protect a lot of potential parents.


When you state that it is more middle and upper class women who have abortions there are a lot of variables that don't come into play--whether or not they are in an abusive relationship; whether they've been given the option of either having an abortion or a divorce--I'm not pulling those examples off the top of my head because I know women in those groups.  The real trouble ahead right now is that with so many people out of work, insurance, and losing their homes, there will be more abortions for financial reasons.


I've gotten called on 2 polls that hung up on me as soon as I answered PC; I have no idea what the rest of the questions might have been or how they could have altered the results. the "majority" of people think rules would be good for everyone else as long as they don't affect them personally.

"You are letting your opinion be colored by facts again."
'When I want your opinion, I'll give it to you."
these are both from my father.
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6 years ago  ::  May 20, 2009 - 9:06PM #53
mountain_man
Posts: 40,230

May 20, 2009 -- 10:19AM, amcolph wrote:


I have the impression that Bei is not being entirely candid with us.  Perhaps a true dialogue would be risky for him.




As is the case many times, they just want to attack, demonize, berate, the other side. That's what they want, not rational dialog.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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6 years ago  ::  May 20, 2009 - 10:38PM #54
Bei1052
Posts: 986

Back to a rhetorical question-the differece between having an abortion at 1 month after conception and one month before the due date is the viability of the fetus. There is no way that a fetus could survive outside the host at one month. After viability--especially as far along as 8 months--once delivered  and breathing--has no further dependancy on the woman and can be put up for adoption if the woman so chooses; if the male parent is known then he can choose to relinquish his parental rights or take the child himself.


You ummm... Do realize you didn't answer the question, right? Everyone knows what viability is. That wasn't the the point of the question. So let me try this again: Fundamentally speaking, what's the difference between having an abortion the 30th week of pregnancy and the 3rd week of pregnancy, taking things such as bodily autonomy and the completely nebulous idea of a right to privacy as it relates to an abortion in account?


As for the $10 package of condoms--think how many abortions could be prevented if men let more than a smile be their umbrella rather than use them. OF course, since any school that wanted any federal funding couldn't teach anything but abstinence, we've failed to protect a lot of potential parents.


Imagine how many abortions could be prevented if the woman would make the man wear one. Birth control isn't a one-way street. It works two ways.


...And, I repeat, condoms are less than $10 at your local gas station/convenience store. It's not hard to get them nor $10.


When you state that it is more middle and upper class women who have abortions there are a lot of variables that don't come into play--whether or not they are in an abusive relationship; whether they've been given the option of either having an abortion or a divorce--I'm not pulling those examples off the top of my head because I know women in those groups.  The real trouble ahead right now is that with so many people out of work, insurance, and losing their homes, there will be more abortions for financial reasons.


I already posted two links to two different websites which go into detail the reasons why women have abortions. Abusive relationships and being forced into them rank at the bottom.


...And I scoff at having abortions for financial reasons. It's always struck me as odd how people in America, and most Western countries, can't seem to raise children because of a lack of funds but people in dirt poor countries can manage just fine with less. That includes people who move to the U.S. with nothing and bring their children with them.


That's pretty shameful when you think about it.

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6 years ago  ::  May 20, 2009 - 10:41PM #55
Bei1052
Posts: 986

May 20, 2009 -- 9:06PM, mountain_man wrote:

As is the case many times, they just want to attack, demonize, berate, the other side. That's what they want, not rational dialog.




Oh, so not only are you now Christian, but you're pro-life as well?


:)

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6 years ago  ::  May 20, 2009 - 11:28PM #56
amcolph
Posts: 17,990

May 20, 2009 -- 9:06PM, mountain_man wrote:


May 20, 2009 -- 10:19AM, amcolph wrote:


I have the impression that Bei is not being entirely candid with us.  Perhaps a true dialogue would be risky for him.




As is the case many times, they just want to attack, demonize, berate, the other side. That's what they want, not rational dialog.




No, you won't get anything else out of this fellow.


All he knows is that it is self-evident that abortion--from the moment of fertilization on--is homicide and that PC'ers are too far gone in callous hedonism to care.


I wonder if he has ever actually been to a "dirt-poor" country to see how the people get on "just fine."

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6 years ago  ::  May 20, 2009 - 11:41PM #57
Bei1052
Posts: 986

May 20, 2009 -- 11:28PM, amcolph wrote:

No, you won't get anything else out of this fellow.


All he knows is that it is self-evident that abortion--from the moment of fertilization on--is homicide and that PC'ers are too far gone in callous hedonism to care.


I wonder if he has ever actually been to a "dirt-poor" country to see how the people get on "just fine."




Ignoring the gross misrepresentation of anything said thus far, I'd like to point out the fact that I was born in Nigeria; that my parents came here when I was about 5'ish; that my dad eventually left; and my mom took care of four kids on her on in a foreign country while going to school and working. So ummm... I think you'll be removing the foot from your mouth now :-P


Who's the one avoiding true dialogue now? I find it funny that the people engaging in one-liners and trite responses would accuse me of avoiding real dialogue. It's ironic, really :)

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6 years ago  ::  May 20, 2009 - 11:56PM #58
mountain_man
Posts: 40,230

May 20, 2009 -- 11:28PM, amcolph wrote:


No, you won't get anything else out of this fellow.


All he knows is that it is self-evident that abortion--from the moment of fertilization on--is homicide and that PC'ers are too far gone in callous hedonism to care.


I wonder if he has ever actually been to a "dirt-poor" country to see how the people get on "just fine."




I doubt they have.  Those that have to berate and belittle the other side should take special care and listen to what Obama had to say:


Obama acknowledged that "no matter how much we want to fudge it ... the fact is that at some level, the views of the two camps are irreconcilable." But he still implored the University of Notre Dame's graduating class and all in the U.S. to stop "reducing those with differing views to caricature. Open hearts. Open minds. Fair-minded words. It's a way of life that always has been the Notre Dame tradition."



Source


All some here want to do is demonize PCs so that they can feel superior, self righteous, and holier than thou. They do not want discussion. There are several nice PLs that are willing to talk, and listen, but the others attack them too.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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6 years ago  ::  May 20, 2009 - 11:59PM #59
mountain_man
Posts: 40,230

May 20, 2009 -- 11:41PM, Bei1052 wrote:


Ignoring the gross misrepresentation of anything said thus far...




That's right. Your gross misrepresentations have been ignored. You're not going to change any minds with such exaggerations, so why bother? Why not try a mature dialog where you listen to, instead of fight against, what others have to say?

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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6 years ago  ::  May 21, 2009 - 12:04AM #60
Bei1052
Posts: 986

May 20, 2009 -- 11:59PM, mountain_man wrote:

That's right. Your gross misrepresentations have been ignored. You're not going to change any minds with such exaggerations, so why bother? Why not try a mature dialog where you listen to, instead of fight against, what others have to say?



You're good for quoting parts of a sentence and ignoring the rest.


Anywho, I'll play along. Go and find me an exaggeration. Anything I write out is backed with sources. And, while you're at, try responding to something I've written out in full instead of responding with some psuedo-intellectual "make-fun-of-a-religious-group" type response based off of six words in a sentence, too. This'll be fun :)

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