Post Reply
Page 1 of 31  •  1 2 3 4 5 6 ... 31 Next
Switch to Forum Live View Bottom line: It's woman's body
6 years ago  ::  Jan 30, 2009 - 3:36PM #1
grand86
Posts: 1
The foremost reason I support the pro-choice is woman’s rightful desire for control their bodies. Pregnancy can cause significant risk and damage on woman’s health and career. Do you think that there should be a double standard for healthy women and women with significant health problems when it comes to the government interference against abortion? I don’t think anyone can make the important decision for anyone else but herself.
Quick Reply
Cancel
6 years ago  ::  Feb 02, 2009 - 12:51PM #2
RiverMoonlady
Posts: 773
And what about the many possible medical problems caused by pregnancy and/or childbirth?  Even the healthiest of women might develop complications that are life-threatening.

There should not be any laws determining a woman's physical or mental fitness to bear children, but I've begun to believe that women should have to pass a test and get a license before they reproduce!  Same with men, too.  If it is illegal to drive a car until the age of (usually) 16, it should be illegal to have babies until you reach a reasonable age.
Quick Reply
Cancel
6 years ago  ::  Feb 02, 2009 - 10:15PM #3
mountain_man
Posts: 39,099

grand86 wrote:

The foremost reason I support the pro-choice is woman’s rightful desire for control their bodies. Pregnancy can cause significant risk and damage on woman’s health and career. Do you think that there should be a double standard for healthy women and women with significant health problems when it comes to the government interference against abortion? I don’t think anyone can make the important decision for anyone else but herself.


That's the only rational position I can think of. Abortion is not a nice thing, but the only other alternative is forcibly removing a woman's right to her own body. As a male; that is the only position I can take. It's the woman's body so the decision is entirely hers. All I can do is support whatever decision she makes and to make sure that I do not put her in a position to make that decision - no protection, no sex.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
Quick Reply
Cancel
6 years ago  ::  Feb 03, 2009 - 1:08PM #4
Vanillaangel
Posts: 334
The chronic mistake that many in the pro-life movement exhibit in their address against women's rights to personal reproductive sovereignty, is that of believing proactive right to choose is like unto an anthem to abort. When it's not.

Choice. Is exactly that. Everyone here had a mother that was pro-choice. To insist a woman must revoke her rights, because she's female, is sexism. The assaults that occur against women, by those who claim to act in such a way because they believe all life is sacred, is assault and blatant disrespect for the female sex.
It's not about being for the babies. It's about controlling the women, who are the only sex in our species who give birth. Men, are left alone. Their part in contributing to unwanted pregnancy rarely, if ever, is addressed. Because the Patriarchal mentality is extant even in 21st century America. And the religious discrimination that is invoked, to assault women on many different levels in this matter, comes from that what is a Patriarchal philosophy that, page after page in the Bible, relegates women to the status of property. To be abused, sold, murdered, at the will of their male keepers. Which was/is their fathers, their husbands and their god.

And all of that is what carries over and carries on the agenda of the pro-life movement that actively pursues it's intention to command women, under those religious tenets, to remain pregnant against their will.
And if they fail to comply, they are then deserving of murder, assault, harassment, defamation, and slander.

So for those who watch this transpire, the message is clear. Quality of life and respect for one's fellow human being is not nor has it ever been relevant to the tenets of the pro-life movement.  Instead, the goal of the PL agenda, is to make women give birth no matter what.

The most zealous PLer, insisting women that are raped, fertile young women that are molested and become pregnant, are still to be forbidden the right to choose to abort the seed of their rapist.

It is indeed a womans body. And especially, as an American citizen, it is sovereign. While the government the PL movement seeks to manipulate through it's witnessing of their vile tactics against female citizens of this nation, is not.

The right to privacy is inviolable. And it is truly a great day that at least for the next 4 years, women on a national level will remain free in this country. While on a State by State level, we must remain ever vigilant to prohibit those who would insist their personal morality and the law, own us as slaves to same.
We must fight those who say we have to have an sonogram before we're allowed to choose. We must fight those who insist we be told we're choosing to take a human life.
When those propaganda methods are not only immoral, but illegal and outright lies.
What the pro-life movement can not seem to understand, and it's because it literally does not pay to, is it is not a life. It is a parasite. The medical journals, the medical dictionary, which is not predisposed to partisan bias, defines clearly enough what abortion is, what spontaneous abortion (miscarriage) is, and what a life is. And is not.

And what is patently obvious, is that if life were sacred to those most zealous abusers within the PL movement, they would not resort to abuse of the living, when all life is sacred. And they would not scream abortion is against their god's will, when the Bible they often hold aloft in screaming those words, is replete with examples to the contrary.

This isn't a religious issue. We're not a Theocracy. We're a free country. And if the pro-life camp expects to be free, they should recognize women are entitled to the same expectation.
Freedom isn't a privilege.
It's a right.

Like the signature says......
Quick Reply
Cancel
6 years ago  ::  Feb 03, 2009 - 5:37PM #5
faith713
Posts: 3,892

Vanillaangel wrote:

The assaults that occur against women, by those who claim to act in such a way because they believe all life is sacred, is assault and blatant disrespect for the female sex.
.... relegates women to the status of property. To be abused, sold, murdered, at the will of their male keepers. Which was/is their fathers, their husbands and their god.


It seems hypocritical for women to complain about not wanting to be treated as property when that is exactly how they are treating their unborn child via abortion.

Vanillaangel wrote:

We must fight those who say we have to have an sonogram before we're allowed to choose. We must fight those who insist we be told we're choosing to take a human life.
When those propaganda methods are not only immoral, but illegal and outright lies.


Either provide evidence to support your claim that the unborn child is a parasite and is not human life or retract your statement.
"It's time to end the cover-ups.... Women need to know the truth.... There's no money to be made in teaching women the truth--and that's why the teaching probably will not come from anyone who has money to be made from drugs, devices, and abortions." --Gail Grenier Sweet

Vanillaangel wrote:

What the pro-life movement can not seem to understand, and it's because it literally does not pay to, is it is not a life. It is a parasite. The medical journals, the medical dictionary, which is not predisposed to partisan bias, defines clearly enough what abortion is, what spontaneous abortion (miscarriage) is, and what a life is. And is not.


A miscarriage is accidental while an abortion is directly caused by the woman's actions. If someone falls off a cliff and dies, no one is to blame. OTOH if someone else pushes a person off a cliff on purpose, they are held liable for that death. Big difference there.

Vanillaangel wrote:

And what is patently obvious, is that if life were sacred to those most zealous abusers within the PL movement, they would not resort to abuse of the living, when all life is sacred. And they would not scream abortion is against their god's will, when the Bible they often hold aloft in screaming those words, is replete with examples to the contrary.


Misunderstanding the Bible is not an excuse to permit abortion.

Vanillaangel wrote:

This isn't a religious issue. We're not a Theocracy. We're a free country. And if the pro-life camp expects to be free, they should recognize women are entitled to the same expectation.
Freedom isn't a privilege.
It's a right.


We should not have the freedom or right to end an innocent child's life.

Vanillaangel wrote:

Like the signature says......


"Abortion is the ultimate exploitation of women." Alice Paul

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."--John14:6

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.-- John 3:16

"We love Him because He first loved us."--1 John 4:9-10

"There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear ... "
1 John 4:18
Quick Reply
Cancel
6 years ago  ::  Feb 03, 2009 - 6:49PM #6
lAuR1987
Posts: 174
Vanilla,

Well put! I enjoy reading your comments here. Sometimes I think the pro life group just wants to leave us barefoot and pregnant ;)
Quick Reply
Cancel
6 years ago  ::  Feb 03, 2009 - 7:03PM #7
Vanillaangel
Posts: 334

faith713 wrote:

It seems hypocritical for women to complain about not wanting to be treated as property when that is exactly how they are treating their unborn child via abortion.


But that parasite/embryo/fetus is the property of the woman who's body sustains it's existence. Ergo, as the PL movement likes to say, if she laid down and spread her legs, then she should be responsible for that, she's equally responsible and entitled to determine whether or not that parasite/embryo/fetus, will come to term. Without her cooperation , it does not exist.
And remember,again, there are spontaneous abortions effected by "god" every single moment of every single day. In this, what you call, a fallen world that is the cause of miscarriage.
As an atheist I'll say, even I give more credit to the Yeshua sacrifice for salvation myth, than that. To imagine this world is fallen after he died to save it?! And that's why women miscarry, is contrary to the grace of salvation and means Jesus failed.
How sad. :(



Either provide evidence to support your claim that the unborn child is a parasite and is not human life or retract your statement.


I can't begin to tell you how much I love ultimatums. I especially like the sound they make, like a thud, as representation for someone who can not engage in a debate without their issuance.


But just for fun.

Parasite: An organism that lives in or on and takes its nourishment from another organism. A parasite cannot live independently.

Thus, in the embryonic stage, it's a parasite. It derives nourishment from another organism. The mother. And it cannot live independently of the host/mother. Most abortions are performed in the first trimester and in the second trimester, during the fetal stage, it's still a parasite for the same reasons.



"It's time to end the cover-ups.... Women need to know the truth.... There's no money to be made in teaching women the truth--and that's why the teaching probably will not come from anyone who has money to be made from drugs, devices, and abortions." --Gail Grenier Sweet


Oh that's just sad. Ms.Sweet clearly is ignorant of the "family planning centers" that commit fraud and misrepresentation, so as to coerce unsuspecting pregnant women into their facilities so they can then accost them with the pro-life agenda. Facilities that receive federal grant monies, thus proving the pro-life movement dispenses lies, falsehoods and engages in emotional and physical abuse of women, so as to make money and coerce to slavery, the female life that is already viable but, according to that zealous agenda, is unworthy of respect as an individual. And instead must be made, forced, to comport with the agenda of others corrupt hypocritical (im)moral philosophy.




A miscarriage is accidental while an abortion is directly caused by the woman's actions. If someone falls off a cliff and dies, no one is to blame. OTOH if someone else pushes a person off a cliff on purpose, they are held liable for that death. Big difference there.


Oh now wait. Before you said a miscarriage was the result of a fallen world. Now it's an accident?! How is it an accident?! The body chemistries of the female host evacuate the parasite because it's not viable to remain attached to the uterine wall. That's not an accident. That's the will of the womans body processes to survive her life, by expelling something that is not fit to live inside her. For what ever reason, including it's own deformity.

Misunderstanding the Bible is not an excuse to permit abortion.


Misunderstanding the Bible is no excuse to assault women with exclusivist doctrine derived from said text, so as to demand they comport to the demand of relinquishing their personal sovereignty, and becoming slaves to the text of said book.

We should not have the freedom or right to end an innocent child's life.


I read here: "We should not have the freedom or right."
Because the pro-life movement is not actually activists in the name of all life is sacred. This is why pro-life members can kill, in the name of stopping a life from continuing because the living person performs abortion. This is why pro-life members can assault women with vile verbal slurs, throw chicken skin on them while screaming it's the skin of dead babies. Take pictures of women entering into health clinics and then posting their pictures on the net so as to incite violence against them, public ridicule and shame, so that that woman's quality of life is compromised because the PL movement believes it is justified because she compromised the life inside her.

The zealous character of such terrorists,
1.a person, usually a member of a group, who uses or advocates terrorism.)
(Terrorism: 1.the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, esp. for political purposes.2.the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization.) , lends evidence they are not respectful of life else they wouldn't treat the living with such contempt and violence. They would instead spend their energies giving homes to the born, raising the millions of tax exempt dollars the PL organizations acquire through campaigning the public support, to feed, clothe and sustain the newborns who's quality of life is compromised.
If the PL movement was truly about the sacredness of life they would not support capital punishment, a death penalty just like what they claim abortion is. Nor would they be pro-war.

It's not about life. It's about control of women. Keeping us in our place, because we're suppose to accept an exclusivist religious doctrine makes us servants to it, whether we like it or not.


"Abortion is the ultimate exploitation of women." Alice Paul


Alice Paul is supremely ignorant.
Nothing else can be said to help assuage that chronic condition.

Ignorant: 1.lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned: an ignorant man. 2.lacking knowledge or information as to a particular subject or fact: ignorant of quantum physics. 3.uninformed; unaware.4.due to or showing lack of knowledge or training: an ignorant statement.

Quick Reply
Cancel
6 years ago  ::  Feb 03, 2009 - 9:35PM #8
mountain_man
Posts: 39,099

Vanillaangel wrote:

But that parasite/embryo/fetus is the property of the woman who's body sustains it's existence....


Being a biologist I can tell you that in no way does the ZEF resemble any biological, scientific, or rational, definition of a parasite. Basically, in order to be a parasite it has to be of a different species. Using the "parasite" argument just cheapens the PC position.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
Quick Reply
Cancel
6 years ago  ::  Feb 04, 2009 - 10:52AM #9
Vanillaangel
Posts: 334

mountain_man wrote:

Being a biologist I can tell you that in no way does the ZEF resemble any biological, scientific, or rational, definition of a parasite. Basically, in order to be a parasite it has to be of a different species. Using the "parasite" argument just cheapens the PC position.


You're entitled to your opinion.
However, by medical standards, the parasite reference is valid. The human zygote, embryo, fetus, feti, are/is a parasite with human cells. One would think a biologist would know that.

Quick Reply
Cancel
6 years ago  ::  Feb 04, 2009 - 12:44PM #10
RiverMoonlady
Posts: 773
VanillaAngel - "The most zealous PLer, insisting women that are raped, fertile young women that are molested and become pregnant, are still to be forbidden the right to choose to abort the seed of their rapist."

Sadly, there are extremists among this group who believe that any girl who gets pregnant due to rape or incest MUST give birth, no matter how small and/or underdeveloped her body is and no matter how risky it would be for her to continue a pregnancy to completion.  I was discussing this on another website and brought up the fact that the average 10-year-old girl (who is in about 4th grade) is 4'-3" tall and weighs about 70 lbs.

I believe that most, if not all, OB/GYNS would say that it is very dangerous for a girl that  young and small to carry a pregnancy, but the extreme PL'ers insist that the health and life of the girl DO NOT MATTER, only the life of the "innocent" fetus.  How depressing and sad it is to me that the INNOCENT young girl apparently has no worth compared to the fetus.  I can only wonder what would happen if that pregnant 10-year-old would be their DAUGHTER.
Quick Reply
Cancel
Page 1 of 31  •  1 2 3 4 5 6 ... 31 Next
 
    Viewing this thread :: 0 registered and 1 guest
    No registered users viewing
    Advertisement

    Beliefnet On Facebook