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6 years ago  ::  Jul 19, 2008 - 8:33PM #11
puzzleman
Posts: 235
Other nations do not have a problem with the death penalty and they have fewer crimes committed. They don't sentence criminals to 7 life sentences for killing police officers and pay taxes for overpopulated prisons. Connecticut prisons are so full we are sending convicts to other states. Sure, I believe God is merciful only because of the crucifixion of his son ( a very high price to pay for our sin). Everyone needs to be accountable for what they do here on earth.
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 10, 2008 - 10:08PM #12
aquinasmind
Posts: 181
Here is a link to a rather extensive article presenting the pro-death penalty argument. I liked it and agree with much of it. Have a look at it at your leisure, and let me know what you think about it. It is important to study both sides of the issue as fairly and unbiased as possible.
http://www.wesleylowe.com/cp.html#deter
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 10, 2008 - 10:28PM #13
aquinasmind
Posts: 181
As a law major I see deterrence as a particularly weak argument agains the death penalty. If deterrence was the only reason to have the death penalty then we might as well get rid of the entire penal system. We have jails, prisons, and penitentaries that do not appear to deter crime. The point of the penal system is not to deter crime. The point of the penal system is to punish criminals and to make sure that they never prey on society again. The point of the death penalty is to send a message that as a society we value innocent human life. Mind you I am not arguing that there are not any good arguments against the death penalty, but that this is simply not one of them.
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 11, 2008 - 12:09PM #14
bubbysmommy
Posts: 1,119
[QUOTE=aquinasmind;682220]Here is a link to a rather extensive article presenting the pro-death penalty argument. I liked it and agree with much of it. Have a look at it at your leisure, and let me know what you think about it. It is important to study both sides of the issue as fairly and unbiased as possible.
http://www.wesleylowe.com/cp.html#deter[/QUOTE]

[COLOR="Blue"]Those stats shoot down that reasoning of a great deal of those against the DP. [/COLOR]
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 11, 2008 - 12:11PM #15
bubbysmommy
Posts: 1,119
[COLOR="RoyalBlue"]Again, as far as I am concerned, punishment should never be about deterrence.  It should remain strictly about punishing the individual responsible. Now, if that ends up preventing someone else from committing the same crime, great, but that is not what it should be about.[/COLOR]
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 11, 2008 - 3:18PM #16
aquinasmind
Posts: 181
The argument that the death penalty does not provide a deterrent is a straw man.  If the point of the death penalty were deterrence than it would fit the very definition of cruelty. For as CS Lewis writes "deterrence in itself, would be a very wicked thing to do. On the classical theory of punishment it was of course justified on the ground that the man deserved it. Why, in Heaven’s name, am I to be sacrificed to the good of society in this way? unless, of course, I deserve it." A penalty inflicted merely to deter is not to punish a man for his deeds but for what someone else might do, hence it would be cruel and unusual. I am glad that the death penalty is not inflicted to deter crime.
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6 years ago  ::  Sep 07, 2008 - 4:51AM #17
kamakaz68
Posts: 267
[QUOTE=Tmarie64;528468]I don't know that it was designed to be a deterrent.  I don't think it is right now because death row inmates usually live to ripe old ages on death row with all the appeals, etc.[/QUOTE]

I agree, in fact you can run your business, and get more freedom on death row than regular immates. It can only be a deterent when it is consistantly and continually enforced in a timely manner, then it will deter criminals not to take so many risks that may end them in an electric chair. However the criminally insane may not care at all.
there is another question, is it morally right or wrong. So many Christians think it is wrong, because Jesus came and changed everything. But it is not the case, Jesus said, I did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it. Did he reverse any of the old testimant laws. He actually reinforced the ten commandments. "You have heard it said, do not commit adultery,. but I say to you whoever looks at a woman to lust for her body has already committed adultery with her in his heart." He went thru command after command, so Jesus is not a 'get out of sin' card. God is the same yesterday, today and forever. God said the punishment for murder (premeditated) is death, so that should be no different today. And the fact that so many Christians are against the death penalty is amazing and sad. I bet you 99% of anyone against the death penalty who has a child or sibling or parent murdered may change their opinion. I would say that the death penalty should only cover what God says, and with at least two eye witnesses or substantial evidence.
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6 years ago  ::  Sep 07, 2008 - 4:57AM #18
kamakaz68
Posts: 267
[QUOTE=aquinasmind;683526]The argument that the death penalty does not provide a deterrent is a straw man.  If the point of the death penalty were deterrence than it would fit the very definition of cruelty. For as CS Lewis writes "deterrence in itself, would be a very wicked thing to do. On the classical theory of punishment it was of course justified on the ground that the man deserved it. Why, in Heaven’s name, am I to be sacrificed to the good of society in this way? unless, of course, I deserve it." A penalty inflicted merely to deter is not to punish a man for his deeds but for what someone else might do, hence it would be cruel and unusual. I am glad that the death penalty is not inflicted to deter crime.[/QUOTE]

well I think deterrence is a side effect of the DP not the main purpose. The main purpose is to serve justice out against someone who committed a horrible crime punishable by death. As a side effect it would be an example to criminals that as a society we will not tolerate evil behavior. lets not forget the victims of these crimes and their families. IF you take someones life (premeditated and willfully) for personal gain, greed, revenge or jealousy why on earth should you have the right to continue living? You stole someones life that can not be given back and seriously hurt his/her family and friends. So the DP is for justice, but it will by nature, as humans naturally have a strong will to live, deter others from meeting the same fate for their crimes.
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6 years ago  ::  Sep 07, 2008 - 5:08AM #19
kamakaz68
Posts: 267
[QUOTE=David the King;639365]I don't think the death penalty is a deterrant.  A question that needs to be answered is whether is justice system is fair enough to administer such decisions.  There is a reason why you never see people with money on death row.  We should also be sure to address the issue of those that have been in prison for years and have been proven innocent.  How would our conscience deal with the fact that the wrong individual was put to the death.  Does that make everyone that pushed for the death penalty and accessory to muder.  Prison in America has become part of corprate America.  Those that have made housing humans behind bars a profitable venture should also be considered.[/QUOTE]

no i dont think so. This just goes to show that the so called justice system needs to be re-examined and corrections made as it is severely flawed at this point.  however to say well an innocent person might die, so lets not kill anyone at all. So we let a few murderers go free (as reality this happens with overcrowding not to mention the high costs of housing all these people). Now would those who oppose the DP be accessory to murders for the people they murder after released. the fact is there is not enough jail space to house all the criminals and many go free to commit more crimes over and over. We got deals, and early releases, legal loopholes, etc. The fact that not many rich people end up in jail is more evidence that the system is flawed. the so called public defenders who are interning to become prosecutors have little concern for their clients in most cases. The fact is you can get away with murder now adays. IF you got money and the glove dont fit, or making deals, and the fact that death row is just another prison cell and the 'chair' sits around collecting dust and is not a real threat. Look  at suge knight who ran his business out of death row and is free today, and named his record label, 'death row records'.
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6 years ago  ::  Sep 07, 2008 - 5:20AM #20
kamakaz68
Posts: 267
[QUOTE=redhead57;638743]If one innocent person looses their life, it is not worth 100 guilty people dying by execution.  We have executed many innocents in this nation over our history and America should be ashamed.  For a Christian nation to take the action to murder makes me seriously question if there is any understanding at all of Jesus. 

Whether a life has been take or not, gives no human the right to take the life of the perpetrator.  We have no right to end a person's life.  If retribution is the desired effect, life imprisonment is certainly a punishment worse than a release from this life. Many men find themselves in prison, they make a way for good to come out of a bad situation.  They will take the younger guys under their wing and teach them there is a better way so that when they are released they have some sort of hope and are better equipped to live a free life.  We cannot simply discard someone for committing a crime. I have had member of my family murdered in cold blood and also lost friends and acquaintances to homicide, yet I have no desire for their murderer to be strapped to a gurney and given the hot shot.  We are a family that has seen great tragedy.  I know that my words won't change the mind of anyone, yet I felt to express my feelings.    red[/QUOTE]

the bible supports death penalty. so why should not every Christian? I believe what the bible says, and it says thall shall not commit murder, and the penalty God imposed on murder is death, a life for a life. I have a question for you. So if we do not execute them what do we do? there is no room in prisons to house all of them and it cost huge amount of money to care for these criminals. So the fact is murderers go free everyday. The fact is you can get away with murder in our society today, and other criminals see that which motivates them to go on crime sprees as there is no deterrent or fear of harm for doing so. So we set a murderer free and he murders more people, are there lives not worth an occasional innocent person. Remember God is in control of everything, so no one will accidentally be executed without God permitting it. Jesus did not come to be a 'get out of sin free' card, He said, He did not come to abolish the law (which would have to happen if you abolish Gods judgment for murder, which is very clear in scripture, death penalty) but to fulfill the law. Jesus also went even further in expounding on the ten commandments, you have heard it said, .. but I tell you...So He clearly reinforced Gods original laws. God is the same yesterday today and forever, He did not have a change of heart concerning murder. The reason Jesus came was to be a way for us to be reunited with God, by paying for our sins in a spiritual sense, not a human sense. We can be saved from hell for our sins, but if Jesus intended for us to not pay a price He would have commanded all prisons be taken down. But He didnt as it is not Gods intent for sin and crimes to go unpunished. Does God not still punish the wicked? and chasten those he loves? without punishment there would be pure anarchy, which we are close to with our sad so called justice system. according to the bible we do have a right to take a persons life as a punishment for a crime if that is what God says the punishment is for the crime. It is biblical. have you been to jail, that is all fairytales, it is every man for himself in prison, no one cares about anyone else! they may take someone under there wings if they can use that person or want to rape them. Prison does not rehibilitate or make any of the criminals better people 99.999% of the cases. The people released do not go on to live happily ever after lives, the stats show most will recommit the same crimes or worse ones as they pick up criminal knowledge in prison. I am glad you have come to peace with the murderer, but that does not take the right of others who struggle with knowing the killer of there mother or father or sibling or daughter or son is still alive and breathing and their loved one is worm food, they can not eat, or experience life as it was taken from them.
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