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Switch to Forum Live View What's "BAD" about hunting!
6 years ago  ::  Apr 29, 2008 - 3:02PM #1
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,760
As the resident Great White Hunter here, I spend much of my time on these boards defending my sport and the way I get a good share of my own food from constant attacks.

Just to be fair, I'd like to point out what I think is bad or wrong about hunting... at least these days.

The problem, IMO, is the need for a fundamental philosophical shift. I live now, as I have nearly all my life, in the Rocky Mountain West. I know that the veiwpoint I'm about to point out is deeply ingrained in the culture here. Those of you who live in other parts of the country can help me by pointing out if you've also seen it among rural/agricultural/hunting people in your regions.

Okay, gross-oversimplification here, but the prevailing view of natural predators -- cougars, bears, coyotes, wolves -- is negative. It boils down to this:

The rancher: "If it doesn't go "moo" or "baa," plus it might eat things that go "moo" or "baa" -- it's bad and needs to be gotten rid of -- or at least severely culled."

The hunter: "If it can't provide me with meat for my freezer or a pretty antler rack to hang on the wall -- and it also eats things that might provide me with meat or pretty racks -- it's bad and needs to be gotten rid of, or at least severely culled."

Again gross oversimplification. I most certainly don't think that way, and I've met other hunters and ranchers who do not.

The problem is, that has no basis in real fact, and might actually create more problems than it solves. Wolves are a big, huge, hairy topic of contention in my neck of the woods right now. And, as one might predict, those crying the loudest for wolf "control" include many hunters and ranchers.

But, consider what is said in this essay:

http://www.newwest.net/topic/article/st … t/C38/L38/

I think it points to a deep paradigm shift that many hunters and others in the rural West need to seriously consider.

In short, the problem with hunting right now is that its heart might be in the right place, but its mind is way too narrow, esp. when it comes to predators.

Please, read the essay, and then we can discuss things.
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6 years ago  ::  Apr 29, 2008 - 5:18PM #2
MARI77
Posts: 203
What’s bad with hunting?
Hunters are cheaters who maximize their fitness by taking advantages from others.
The tragic histories of the American Buffalo and the passenger pigeon show us that hunters are sometimes the last to realize the delicate nature of animal populations.
Any compassionate human witnessing a gunned down deer’s last moments, the struggle,  the blood, the panicked breathing, their hopeless desire to survive can tell you what’s bad about hunting.
The ban on the barbaric “sports” of hunting is long overdue and to kill animals for sport should now be a crime as well as a cruel and morally reprehensible act. I never could see why a man should be imbued with a blood-thirsty desire to kill and destroy animal life.
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6 years ago  ::  Apr 29, 2008 - 5:27PM #3
AndyF
Posts: 375

MARI77 wrote:

What’s bad with hunting?
Hunters are cheaters who maximize their fitness by taking advantages from others.



That's a mighty bold statement to make about a whole group of people that you've never met before.

The tragic histories of the American Buffalo and the passenger pigeon show us that hunters are sometimes the last to realize the delicate nature of animal populations.



The Buffalo were wiped out intentionally to pressure the native Americans to leave their territories, and the passenger pigeons went extinct, partly from hunting, but mostly from loss of habitat.

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6 years ago  ::  Apr 29, 2008 - 5:52PM #4
MARI77
Posts: 203
[QUOTE=AndyF;465587]That's a mighty bold statement to make about a whole group of people that you've never met before.[/QUOTE]


Hunters as a big group of people, they all have one thing in common; they all are killing animals, right?
That sums them up  as a big group of animal killer and their needless slughters of animals. This is a fact you can’t deny.

What person can face a mouse or a deer with its appealing melting beautiful eyes and deliberately short it for no reason, other then selfishness?
You answer me, what kind creation that person can be?

[QUOTE]The Buffalo were wiped out intentionally to pressure the native Americans to leave their territories, and the passenger pigeons went extinct, partly from hunting, but mostly from loss of habitat.[/QUOTE]


Can you prove it?
Hunters are responsible for both of these two tragedies and for every single one of the millions they kill every year just in US alone.

Where are  the animal’s lover on this board? I thought this was an animal right and welfare debate but it seems more like a safe haven for hunters.
Any animal right people in this board/ hello?
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6 years ago  ::  Apr 29, 2008 - 6:53PM #5
Gandalf_Parker
Posts: 1,188

MARI77 wrote:

Where are  the animal’s lover on this board? I thought this was an animal right and welfare debate but it seems more like a safe haven for hunters.
Any animal right people in this board/ hello?


Im all for animal welfare. Its why I started reading this forum.
Ive worked in the parks department and have run up directly against the problems of finding the best way to support wildlife in workable ways. Unfortunately that tends to put me more in league with hunters and less in league with animal rights activists.

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6 years ago  ::  Apr 29, 2008 - 8:08PM #6
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,760
[QUOTE=MARI77;465666]Hunters as a big group of people, they all have one thing in common; they all are killing animals, right?
That sums them up  as a big group of animal killer and their needless slughters of animals. This is a fact you can’t deny.

What person can face a mouse or a deer with its appealing melting beautiful eyes and deliberately short it for no reason, other then selfishness?
You answer me, what kind creation that person can be?




Can you prove it?
Hunters are responsible for both of these two tragedies and for every single one of the millions they kill every year just in US alone.

Where are  the animal’s lover on this board? I thought this was an animal right and welfare debate but it seems more like a safe haven for hunters.
Any animal right people in this board/ hello?[/QUOTE]

1: Did you even bother to read the darned essay? Also, please READ the other one I just posted.. about a trophy hunter helping to save rare desert bighorn sheep. Please READ the article and essay, you just might learn something.

2: Yes, you are right, this is a DEBATE board.. not a "animal rights mutual admiration" board. Be that as it may, there are several AR who post here. Mindis, Bob Green, Solf and Becca.. to name just a few. Or, have you just not been paying attention?

3: Everybody here is an animal lover. I've been coming to this forum since 2004, and I have yet to see a single person who either hated or just didn't care about animals.
I've adopted numerous stray and resuce animals. In fact, I've never in my adult life ever had a pet that was NOT a shelter-rescue or abandoned stray. Please don't assume to lecture me about loving animals.
The point is, AR does NOT have the sole copyright to "animal lover" any more than any one religion has the copyright to "God."
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6 years ago  ::  Apr 30, 2008 - 1:34AM #7
mindis1
Posts: 7,087
What is bad about hunting?

It is bad because it is detrimental to species and the environment.  A small, but irrefutable, bit of the evidence substantiating this is on the “Strange Relationship” thread, post #139.  There’s no need to repeat that post here.  There is much, much more such substantiating evidence, but no one has refuted the evidence already presented yet.  Nor has anyone present any evidence that hunting by humans is beneficial to either species or the environment. 

Hunting is also a burden and detrimental to humans.  For instance, every year in the US alone about a thousand injuries or deaths occur as a direct result of accidents caused by hunters, usually shooting accidents.  This does not even count the injuries or deaths caused by other aspects of hunting culture, such auto accidents caused by drinking alcohol, drinking that is apparently a common activity among hunters as part of the hunting ritual. 

Ultimately what all this adds up to about hunting by humans is that there is no logical argument that morally or rationally justifies it.  That’s a real problem, when one cannot morally or rationally justify one’s acts that wreak havoc on species and the environment and that take the life of individuals that do not belong to one to take.
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6 years ago  ::  Apr 30, 2008 - 1:42AM #8
MARI77
Posts: 203
[QUOTE=mytmouse57;465971]1: Did you even bother to read the darned essay? Also, please READ the other one I just posted.. about a trophy hunter helping to save rare desert bighorn sheep. Please READ the article and essay, you just might learn something.

2: Yes, you are right, this is a DEBATE board.. not a "animal rights mutual admiration" board. Be that as it may, there are several AR who post here. Mindis, Bob Green, Solf and Becca.. to name just a few. Or, have you just not been paying attention?

3: Everybody here is an animal lover. I've been coming to this forum since 2004, and I have yet to see a single person who either hated or just didn't care about animals.
I've adopted numerous stray and resuce animals. In fact, I've never in my adult life ever had a pet that was NOT a shelter-rescue or abandoned stray. Please don't assume to lecture me about loving animals.
The point is, AR does NOT have the sole copyright to "animal lover" any more than any one religion has the copyright to "God."[/QUOTE]

Mr. Hunter;
Does eating and killing wild life animals make you this baffle? God and religions has no resemblance to killing and loving something at the same time.
Additionally how do you live with so much double standard? Why not killing your pets too?
Hunters even kill each other when they get mad.

“The tragedy that occurred in Wisconsin over the weekend, when an angry hunter shot and killed five other hunters and wounded three more, was a terrible thing. Rescuers and other hunters trying to help the wounded were also shot at by the gunman, who got carried away over an argument about a tree stand.”

http://thedeesdiversion.blogspot.com/20 … stand.html

At least these hunters are consistent and non-discriminatory. .
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6 years ago  ::  Apr 30, 2008 - 6:36AM #9
Hmmmmmmm
Posts: 722
[QUOTE=MARI77;465666]Hunters as a big group of people, they all have one thing in common; they all are killing animals, right?[/QUOTE]

hello, Mari.

Yes, they are killing animals.

In my experience, it has never been prudent to overgeneralize the purpose of any one group of people, be they hunter, muslim, or homosexual.

Hunting deer helps control deer herd populations, which in turn means FEWER DEER SUFFER overall, because it curbs overpopulation, which helps to reduce starvation and disease.  Would you prefer many deer die slowly of starvation and disease, or if  only a few were shot and killed swiftly?

That said, I must concede that there are some ignorant, uninformed rednecks out there carrying guns.  Overall, hunters are usually more conscious of environmental causes and more interested in helping to ensure proper deer/elk/moose/etc populations than are those who do not hunt.  Woudl you prefer we all take your stance, which is to leave these animals alone to do what comes natural, which is overpopulate?  Then we don't just have some of them suffering from hunting, we have ALL OF THEM suffering from starvation or disease.  Ensuring proper deer herd numbers, as well as avoiding purchasing meat from the clearly unnatural factory farms is why MM hunts.  MM(Mytmouse) is not one of those ignorant rednecks.  MM has clear, rational, logical reasons for why he hunts.  To group him into a category and pass judgment on him before you understand his reasons is blatant overgeneralizing and stereotyping.
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6 years ago  ::  Apr 30, 2008 - 6:39AM #10
Hmmmmmmm
Posts: 722
[QUOTE=MARI77;466700]
At least these hunters are consistent and non-discriminatory. .[/QUOTE]

If you can't see that you just grouped all hunters, responsible ones or not, into one category and passed judgment on them, then you're hopeless.  You may as well pitch a tent in the big stinky righteous forest of AR.

Judging from your posts, you are entirely underinformed about the issues surrounding hunting, and the need for animal population control.  Go ahead and stand on principle, and at the same time do nothing to curb these problems; while you do that the hunters will be out doing something to help correct the problem.
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