Post Reply
Page 1 of 2  •  1 2 Next
Switch to Forum Live View Why I believe the death penality is wrong
5 years ago  ::  Nov 23, 2008 - 1:32PM #1
ritarae
Posts: 8
Even if the person has commited the most hideous crime, the death penality is wrong in my opinion. The sixth commandment in the bible is thou shall not murder. So for christians every time they put someone to death they are sining. This is my belief, and even though others may differ, that is why I think that the death penality is wrong. Why would you kill as a punishment of killing? Would you make your child go outside in the snoow without shoes on because he had already done it so it would be a good punishment? not to many people would.
Quick Reply
Cancel
5 years ago  ::  Nov 23, 2008 - 7:39PM #2
bubbysmommy
Posts: 1,119
[COLOR="DarkSlateBlue"]Your argument makes no sense. To equate punishing a child with stopping a cold blooded killer is ridiculous. It is apples & oranges.[/COLOR]
Quick Reply
Cancel
5 years ago  ::  Dec 17, 2008 - 5:23PM #3
allthegoodnamesweretaken
Posts: 11,634
The death penalty isn't punishment. 

The death penalty is a means to ensure that the offender will not offend again, and a very effective one at that. 

all
Yesterday, in America, 100 million gun owners did nothing.
Quick Reply
Cancel
5 years ago  ::  Dec 17, 2008 - 5:23PM #4
allthegoodnamesweretaken
Posts: 11,634
The death penalty isn't punishment. 

The death penalty is a means to ensure that the offender will not offend again, and a very effective one at that. 

all
Yesterday, in America, 100 million gun owners did nothing.
Quick Reply
Cancel
5 years ago  ::  Dec 19, 2008 - 2:29PM #5
cajun_snake
Posts: 1
[QUOTE=ritarae;915528]Even if the person has commited the most hideous crime, the death penality is wrong in my opinion. The sixth commandment in the bible is thou shall not murder. So for christians every time they put someone to death they are sining. This is my belief, and even though others may differ, that is why I think that the death penality is wrong. Why would you kill as a punishment of killing? Would you make your child go outside in the snoow without shoes on because he had already done it so it would be a good punishment? not to many people would.[/QUOTE]

I think, if you go with the Christian view of it...no it's not right.  But, IMO, you have to put yourself in the place of those who have lost loved ones.  Ask anyone who is on death row, did their victims HAVE TO DIE?  In today's world, we can lose our loved ones to a any reason, to these types of people.  Why do they do it?  Because in most cases, they won't die themselves, even though they sit on death row.  With maybe the exception of Texas(I live there).

But I don't agree with the example of the child.  Like someone said it's apples and oranges.  I've followed this thing for a lot of years, and to date, those that have been put to death...deserved it.  If there is a silver lining to this...they are not put to death in the same manner as their victims.


SNAKE
Quick Reply
Cancel
5 years ago  ::  Dec 20, 2008 - 1:25AM #6
bubbysmommy
Posts: 1,119
[COLOR="Blue"]Another point that I would like is that yes, the Bible says "Thou shalt not commit murder". The way that this Christian sees it, it isn't murder, it is justice. It is the "killing" of a depraved individual. I have no problem sleeping at night knowing that the person that murdered my best friend & her 2yr old daughter is no longer breathing. To be honest, I am sure that I could have killed him myself if given the chance.[/COLOR]
Quick Reply
Cancel
5 years ago  ::  Dec 20, 2008 - 7:30AM #7
becca97
Posts: 2,562
[QUOTE=cajun_snake;967238]I think, if you go with the Christian view of it...no it's not right.  But, IMO, you have to put yourself in the place of those who have lost loved ones. 



Whilst i think this true to a certain extent IE one has to have empathy with any victim and the victms families ... i also know that we have other members on here who have lost family/friends to murder and who are still ardently against the DP in ALL cases. (i beleive one such member is '13' (could be wrong there though, names are not my strong suit) and mountain mans dad was killed by a drunk driver he is also anti DP ) --- and others (BM) who due ot their experiences now do support the use of the DP in 100% proven beyond any doubt whatsoever cases. (as far as i recall).


[QUOTE]Ask anyone who is on death row, did their victims HAVE TO DIE?  In today's world, we can lose our loved ones to a any reason, to these types of people.  Why do they do it?  Because in most cases, they won't die themselves, even though they sit on death row.  With maybe the exception of Texas(I live there).[/QUOTE]

Depends on the state and country (DP is not just an american issue and bnet is not just an american board) and climate, the more social deprivation folks face the more clamour to either return to the DP or to enact the DP.

I like watching crime documentaries, (as a crime, deviance in society student it counts as research for a deeper understanding ;) or thats what i tell myself) watching one last night on the crime and investigation chanel (UK cable chanel) about Ted Bundy, now we all know most of wheat Bundy has definatly done and there have been several educated estimates of more, very few people can dispute he deserved to be caught andto many he is a perfect example of why the DP should be used.

What disturbed me was this documentary showed the crowds outside the prison where he was killed by DP, and when confirmation of his death was relayed to the crowd they were cheering as if at a football/soccer game.

Now imho this illustrated perfectly one of the reason i feel the DP is a dangerous, dangerous thing, perfectly good decent people where actually cheering and wooping at the death of another human being; - they weren't sad that it 'had' ot happen, or mournful at the sheer waste of life represented by bundy's killing and his own subsequent death, they weren't mourning his victims, they celebrated the death of somebody else.

imho this is unhealthy for a society, for our children to learn that if someone wrongs us we get to wrong them as well and it makes all the crookeds straight ... imho that sight of those people cheering, wooping and waving the american flag as if something fabulous had occured was more distrubing to me than all the descriptions of Bundy's crimes (and i find them pretty disturbing).put together. 

But I don't agree with the example of the child.  Like someone said it's apples and oranges. 



That i do agree with i didn't get the analogy at all and i agree with the general pov of the post IE DP not such a great thing. *shrug*.

I've followed this thing for a lot of years, and to date, those that have been put to death...deserved it.  If there is a silver lining to this...they are not put to death in the same manner as their victims.
SNAKE[/QUOTE]

Not strictly accurate --- many DP victims have been as innocent as the victims of the crimes they were killed for.

http://www.nyadp.org/main/faq#1 (excerpt below) (the figure mentioned below as '123' is now over '200' according to more uptodate other sources listed below)

How many death row inmates have been found innocent?
[COLOR="Red"]Over 123 people have been found innocent of the crime they were sentenced to death for. [/COLOR]
False confessions, mistaken eyewitness accounts, incompetent counsel and jailhouse snitches are often the cause of an innocent person's conviction. While DNA has saved many innocent lives, most crimes do not have DNA that can be tested.
New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg, a Republican, has reiterated his opposition to capital punishment. Bloomberg noted, "The death penalty I've always had a problem with, because too many times in the past you've seen innocent people incarcerated and, tragically, every once in a while they've been executed. And until you can show me that the process never would ever convict somebody that later on we find out was innocent of a crime, murder is murder no matter who does it, and I think we as a society can afford to incarcerate people." (The New York Times, July 31, 2003).
In New York, the five men convicted in the Central Park Jogger rape case were found innocent, although they confessed to the crime. At the time of the crime Donald Trump took out a full-page ad to say that he wished New York had the death penalty for these men.


http://www.opednews.com/maxwrite/diarypage.php?did=3444

http://deathwatch.wordpress.com/2008/04 … death-row/

http://www.justicedenied.org/executed.htm

[COLOR="Red"]Among cases mentioned in previous issues of J:D is David Wayne Spence, executed by the state of Texas on April 3, 1997 despite the conclusion of the police lieutenant who supervised the case that "I do not think David Spence committed this crime." The homicide detective on the case added, "My opinion is that David Spence was innocent. Nothing from the investigation ever led us to any evidence that he was involved." One of the inmates who testified in Spence's trial, Robert Snelson, said, "We all fabricated our accounts of Spence confessing in order to try to get a break from the state on our cases."[/COLOR]

http://www.cybercollege.com/fog41.htm

(according to the above source the estimated figure of innocents put to death is now closer to 100, but the truth is we will never know as even these innocent defendents supports usually move on after death to try and exonerate or at least repeal the DP sentence in other suspected innocent cases)

i also have studies this issues extensivly out of personal interest, have followed these issues for a very, very long time certianly pre teen; and nothing i know would lead me to conclude that EVERY recipient of the DP 'deserves' it the evidence just doesn't support that conclusion.

Another Bnet member i think its tolerant sis (but agian i could be mistaken in the name) has a cousin who was a very high profile innocent man on death row who was saved by preasure form a tv documentary.

bx

Quick Reply
Cancel
5 years ago  ::  Dec 20, 2008 - 11:20AM #8
allthegoodnamesweretaken
Posts: 11,634
Well Becca, as you probably know by now, some forms of empathy are just beyond me.  I support the DP not as punishment, but as a version of society just saying "we're not putting up with your crap anymore". 

Someone kills a member of my family, or one of my close friends, they better hope the police get to them before I do. 

In the US, our whole penal system has issues.  It seems that they want to switch to a more rehabilitative system, but don't want to spend the money on it.  We are still using the old punitive model, but they are squeamish about actually doing most of the punishment parts. 

all
Yesterday, in America, 100 million gun owners did nothing.
Quick Reply
Cancel
5 years ago  ::  Dec 20, 2008 - 1:28PM #9
becca97
Posts: 2,562
[QUOTE=allthegoodnamesweretaken;968730]Well Becca, as you probably know by now, some forms of empathy are just beyond me.  I support the DP not as punishment, but as a version of society just saying "we're not putting up with your crap anymore". 

Someone kills a member of my family, or one of my close friends, they better hope the police get to them before I do.  [/QUOTE]

i understand the sentiment i really do, god knows if someone killed my brother i'd be distraught, pissed and so on .... it would be very easy to seek revenge and ot remove them from this and hopefully any other life forever .... however then whatever happenes ot the genuine perpetrator they win, they have made decent folks into them, baying for blood and cheering when it is spilled. ..... worse than them in many respects as i've seen on here and elsewhere, perfectly decent people say of miscarriage of justice cases that their deaths weren't important so long as murderers got killed swiftly.

so do i think perpetrators of murder, rape murder - and other 'capital' crimes should have our empathy; i think that is an individual choice and reaction but i DO think that in turning our back on even contemplating such ideas we are becoming that which we seek to kill. as evidenced by the number of MOJ cases (miscarriage of justice) in the US alone who are victims of judicial murder, to give those figures some perspective -- any serial killer with victims into double figures is world renowned this is as true whether their victims are all killed within a short space of time or over many, many decades.

imho those who go through such horrors are so  admirable that they do not allow the negative/evil of the crime erode their own morality and empathy.

In the US, our whole penal system has issues.  It seems that they want to switch to a more rehabilitative system, but don't want to spend the money on it.  We are still using the old punitive model, but they are squeamish about actually doing most of the punishment parts. 

all[/QUOTE]

most punative systems are -- this is usually because most states/countries judicial systems are in conflict, which imho is because the beurocrats in 'charge' do not realise different crimes need responding ot and treating in different ways ... IE serial murder/rapists need removing from society period no question (imho this should be life sentence but ... ) whereas what good does it do to stick a petty criminal in jail and do nothing else with them, not commit to giving them life skills, job or education skills to give them options other than offending behaviour; it doesn't, they simply build up a resentment of the system, feel further alientated from society and usually havn't had to face the face of the victim of their crimes.

this is one of the major problems with the due process model of criminal law enforcment, neither the perpetrator or the victim have identities beyond the crime, one is a 'theif' the other a 'victim of theft' the causes of the theft Ie why did the defendent steal/take the raod they did, the resutling impact of the theft on the 'victim' are irrelevent details, and yet to both defendent and 'victim' central to their experiences. In due process law enforcment becomes almost a conveyor belt, an identiy less conveyor belt which for 'minor crimes' simply pertetuates the recidivism rates. (BCS nationalstatistics.gov.uk -- webspage not loading right now so can't give direct link grrrr)

anyhoo i've kinda wandered off track (as you can tell this is a topic i know alot about and that interests me, sociologically speaking as well as personally) but anyway, i do find it interesting that currently the majority of countries do not have the DP (amnesty international).

bx

Quick Reply
Cancel
5 years ago  ::  Dec 21, 2008 - 1:08PM #10
bubbysmommy
Posts: 1,119
[QUOTE=allthegoodnamesweretaken;968730]Well Becca, as you probably know by now, some forms of empathy are just beyond me.  I support the DP not as punishment, but as a version of society just saying "we're not putting up with your crap anymore". 

Someone kills a member of my family, or one of my close friends, they better hope the police get to them before I do. 

In the US, our whole penal system has issues.  It seems that they want to switch to a more rehabilitative system, but don't want to spend the money on it.  We are still using the old punitive model, but they are squeamish about actually doing most of the punishment parts. 

all[/QUOTE]

[COLOR="DarkSlateBlue"]The only thing that I will say is this. Make darned sure that the person that you want executed is truly guilty. I do not mean "Guilty beyond a reasonable doubt" I mean ABSOLUTELY guilty beyond ANY doubt. Then, I will stand behind the decision to execute. Any other burden of proof leaves room for a mistake & an innocent could be put to death. Something that I still have a real issue with. [/COLOR]
Quick Reply
Cancel
Page 1 of 2  •  1 2 Next
 
    Viewing this thread :: 0 registered and 1 guest
    No registered users viewing
    Advertisement

    Beliefnet On Facebook