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Switch to Forum Live View Animal Testing Doesn't Work
5 years ago  ::  Apr 01, 2008 - 4:58PM #171
Chai008
Chai008
Posts: 1,056
[QUOTE=mindis1;400446]Is there some reason you didn’t understand this sentence:



?  Think really hard about it. 

This is why I’m still asking for an intelligent response from you.[/QUOTE]

Do you think that there are ample humans to expirment on.
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5 years ago  ::  Apr 01, 2008 - 5:01PM #172
solfeggio
solfeggio
Posts: 7,698
Ample humans?  Sure.  Why not?  If the drugs are going to be used to treat some human disease, doesn't it seem reasonable that the testing should be done on humans?

As quoted in many, many posts at various times here, animal-model experiments are not predictive of results in humans.
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5 years ago  ::  Apr 01, 2008 - 5:04PM #173
mindis1
mindis1
Posts: 6,061
[QUOTE=DesertKat;400471]I think my main problem with the statement is that it is too universal.  By saying that "animal testing doesn't work", you are making the implication that it has never worked.  [/QUOTE]

What the Drs. Greek (and multitudes of others) argue is that animal-model experimentation is not predictive of effects (drug effects and disease process) in humans.  Using a model that is known to be not predictive of the phenomenon one is model is unscientific.
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5 years ago  ::  Apr 01, 2008 - 5:05PM #174
mindis1
mindis1
Posts: 6,061
[QUOTE=Chai008;400497]Do you think that there are ample humans to expirment on.[/QUOTE]

There were certainly ample corpses from which to extract insulin.
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5 years ago  ::  Apr 01, 2008 - 5:08PM #175
DesertKat
DesertKat
Posts: 436
Mindis- at the risk of laziness (and the fact that I ought to be finishing up the epidemeology project due tomorrow) do you have a link or the name of the book that provides those claims?

Thanks!
Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things.
Winston Churchill
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5 years ago  ::  Apr 01, 2008 - 5:18PM #176
mindis1
mindis1
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DK:  the Drs. Greek website.  It has a massive amount of information.  You can do a Google advanced search on just about any disease, drug or procedure.  They give links to their own others' books.
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5 years ago  ::  Mar 28, 2008 - 2:47AM #177
Schädel
Schädel
Posts: 147

mindis1 wrote:

I know, what a bad strategy!  To try to get people do what is moral by deceiving them!  Not to mention the problem that encouraging people to believe that some animal-model experiments have "brough great medical advances" can only lead them to believe that all animal-model experiments should be performed because you never know which one might "bring" a "great medical advancement"!


the national socialists used this type of method with their politics and medicine and it really made a mess. they reversed it and made people do the immoral, thinking it was moral,  they murdered  and starved to death 1.5 million civilians in the process.

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5 years ago  ::  Mar 30, 2008 - 2:40AM #178
Schädel
Schädel
Posts: 147

Chai008 wrote:

Well then it follows that if people didn't buy medications there wouldn't be a need to experiment on animals. If people didn't buy these medication the drug compaines would go out of business. Therefore the consumer is as guilty as the scientist.


some time i think that vegans just hate humanity.. not saying you do but it is just so.... persumptious of you guys to expect people to pack up and just live in your world and mind set.

my granny was a wonderfull person and she eat meat and AR AW people  calling people that eat meat bad peopel does not fly in the face of reality. even buddha did not promote veganism to lay people.. people are always going to eat meat. deal with it your not even going to change the world. your fighting a ignoble cause in the long run there are much more important things in the world then veganism.
perhaps in a few hundred years you will not have to worry about it. when the huiman race is extinct. heck america in 30 years is going to be mostly hispanic catholics and you will not have a hope in hades with them. christian moralism is the culture of the day and they are never going to sucume to veganism.. hitler if he won i am sure whould have make europe vegan 100% but the only way your going to make people vegan is by making then vegan. not by choice or wisdom or convincing them , you will have to us force. veganism is a fascist cause.. i am not running down fascism, fascism is a wonderful thing it is very democratic and majority rule so if you can make america more fascist and get a pure fascist politicians in office i am sure you will get your wishes. al gore is a fine example of fascism, a marxist/capitolist. not left or right but forward mind set. a little left wing and a little right wing and you have gore and clinton and a fascist government.

fascist is rooted in marxist theories.. neomarxists are the the dems. stalin on the left hitler on the right and el duce in the middle.. were a republic and you guys may get your wish if the dems taek and keep people in america..

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5 years ago  ::  Mar 30, 2008 - 3:20PM #179
Schädel
Schädel
Posts: 147

becca97 wrote:

errrm no facism is not rooted in Marxism and no Stalin was not an example of a communist he was and always had been out for power he turned the Soviet Union into the image of communism the west has today Lenin on the other hand flawed as he was truly beleived in the ideal of a truly localised Soviet (coucil) run state he also eventualy beleived in the demarkation of the armies so there would be no standing natioanl army or police force but that local soviets would for care of the local communties see to any matter that needed seeing to and should anything state threatening occur everyone would automatically without question defend what he saw would be an eventual utopia.

It is sad that the practice did not have time to become the reality and was flawed because not everyone who found power really beleived in either the revolution or a communist ideal but used the revolution to find power.

Facism is rooted in extremism and totalitarianism, communism (true communism as marx spoke of) has little to do with it.


you are such a joke. LOL that is so funny. fascism is rooted in marxist theories.

read a book that is more then 25 years old about fascism.. sad that you read all there revisionist history political science books.

hitler is the black eye of the marxists.. LOL sad state of affairs for the marxists.. your not not well read in political science are you?

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5 years ago  ::  Mar 30, 2008 - 3:22PM #180
Schädel
Schädel
Posts: 147

mindis1 wrote:

Gee, it’s so nice to see that the bigots are on the anti-rights side.


what are you saying? i am not against animal or human rights at all.

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