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Switch to Forum Live View Is abortion murder?
4 years ago  ::  Jan 13, 2010 - 6:40PM #761
Bei1052
Posts: 986

Jan 13, 2010 -- 12:54PM, amcolph wrote:


What about the questions I asked you before?


But you did say that a 'murderable entity'* comes into existence at the conclusion of fertilization.


Why just then?  What you have is a single cell with a human genome.  The unfertilized egg is also a single cell with a human genome.  What is the difference?


*Forgive the clumsy terminology--terms like 'human' and 'person' get bandied about on this board so that I can hardly keep track of what any poster might mean by them.  I think you know what I mean; perhaps you can suggest a term agreeable to yourself.



You would not, I suppose, regard me as being 'pro-life' but one of the reasons I am dubious about abortion is that I don't know when 'human' life begins or even if there is a definable or knowable point when it begins.




I was pretty sure I answered this before, but if not then I guess I will now.


What's the difference? Well, one is a haploid sex cell, and the other is a gentically complete organism which will develop into what you perceive as a "fully grown himan being", given enough developmental time.

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4 years ago  ::  Jan 13, 2010 - 6:47PM #762
amcolph
Posts: 16,319

Jan 13, 2010 -- 6:40PM, Bei1052 wrote:


What's the difference? Well, one is a haploid sex cell, and the other is a gentically complete organism which will develop into what you perceive as a "fully grown himan being", given enough developmental time.




So the genome alone (in a single cell) is sufficient to constitute a human?

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4 years ago  ::  Jan 13, 2010 - 8:29PM #763
Bei1052
Posts: 986

Nope.

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4 years ago  ::  Jan 13, 2010 - 9:27PM #764
amcolph
Posts: 16,319

Jan 13, 2010 -- 8:29PM, Bei1052 wrote:


Nope.




Now you've lost me.

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4 years ago  ::  Jan 14, 2010 - 1:51PM #765
Bei1052
Posts: 986

I don't see how.

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4 years ago  ::  Jan 14, 2010 - 2:56PM #766
amcolph
Posts: 16,319

Jan 14, 2010 -- 1:51PM, Bei1052 wrote:


I don't see how.




Previously, you said:


"If a ZEF is equal to a human being it's because it is a human being."


Right?


And a ZEF, at the beginning, is a single cell with a human genome.


Where does the humanity of that cell lie, if not in the genome?

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4 years ago  ::  Jan 14, 2010 - 5:35PM #767
faith713
Posts: 3,892

Jan 13, 2010 -- 6:20PM, Godgirl wrote:


Faith...i hate to break the news to you and i say this as someone who has been involved with the christian faith....the bible is clear cut whereas life is not. Not everything is black and white wrong or right. Somethings come in degrees of stages of right or wrong. I dont believe all abortions are wrong but i believe some are. Like i have stated before i believe late term abortions are wrong because at that point the fetus is an infant. 


 




 


And some believe they have the "choice" to kill their daughter if she lives under their roof. So much for beliefs, eh?


Early term or late term, abortion still kills a human being. Age or dependence does not justify the death of one's son or daughter.


 

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."--John14:6

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.-- John 3:16

"We love Him because He first loved us."--1 John 4:9-10

"There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear ... "
1 John 4:18
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4 years ago  ::  Jan 15, 2010 - 5:47PM #768
karbie
Posts: 3,304

And some believe it's justified to gun down a man in the House of God because that doctor performs abortions.


Or just to bomb a clinic.


The only relation that Honor killings have with abortions would be if the woman required one, or if you view her murder as retro-active abortion on her family's behalf.


It isn't just daughters, though--a son who is leaving their faith, or found to be a homosexual, is also at risk of honor killings.


It's odd, isn't it? To us, anyone who would consider "honor killings" correct is dishonorable.

"You are letting your opinion be colored by facts again."
'When I want your opinion, I'll give it to you."
these are both from my father.
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4 years ago  ::  Jan 15, 2010 - 6:51PM #769
IDBC
Posts: 4,362

Howdy


The question of wether or not abortion is murder appears to hinge wether or not the fetus is a human being and at what point does it aquire that status.  


Now I do not know wether or not a person has a soul or not, I do not believe so, but I  could be wrong. 


Taking a purely materialist perspective perhaps we can make an analogy with cars.   At what point in its creation-manufacturing does a car become a car?  None of the parts by themselves is a car.   All the parts must be assembled in order for it to be a car.   It would therefore seem to me that the fetus attains the status of being a human being when it is capable of taking its own first breath. 


Have A Thinking Day And May Reason Guide You Smile

HAVE A THINKING DAY MAY REASON GUIDE YOU
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4 years ago  ::  Jan 16, 2010 - 2:43PM #770
Bei1052
Posts: 986

Jan 14, 2010 -- 2:56PM, amcolph wrote:

Previously, you said:


"If a ZEF is equal to a human being it's because it is a human being."


Right?


And a ZEF, at the beginning, is a single cell with a human genome.


Where does the humanity of that cell lie, if not in the genome?



What do you mean "Where does the humanity of that cell lie"? There's no special meaning to being a human. There's no inate quality which makes human beings, human beings. Having a "human genome" does not make something a human being, as parts of the whole, which aren't the whole themselves (i.e., somatic cells), also have a "human genome".

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