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Switch to Forum Live View Is abortion murder?
6 years ago  ::  Jan 24, 2009 - 11:03AM #31
Daldianus
Posts: 32,442

HowCanWeReconcile wrote:

If we are clear about the first question, the other questions are easier to answer. A woman with a full term baby is about to give birth and decides to have it aborted. What's the difference between aborting a baby one minute before he is born or murdering him one minute after he is born?



Please answer the question: is abortion murder? Yes or No?

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6 years ago  ::  Jan 24, 2009 - 11:12AM #32
Howcanwereconcile
Posts: 4
Higher rate of child abuse than spousal abuse. It's harder to abuse a person when he is stronger & smarter & can defend himself. If you no longer want your partner, you cannot just kill him because he will fight you back. Pre-born babies have no capability to defend themselves.
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6 years ago  ::  Jan 24, 2009 - 11:13AM #33
Daldianus
Posts: 32,442

HowCanWeReconcile wrote:

Higher rate of child abuse than spousal abuse. It's harder to abuse a person when he is stronger & smarter & can defend himself. If you no longer want your partner, you cannot just kill him because he will fight you back. Pre-born babies have no capability to defend themselves.



Is abortion murder? Yes or No?

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“After your death you will be what you were before your birth.” - Arthur Schopenhauer
"Eternity is very long, especially towards the end." - Woody Allen
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6 years ago  ::  Jan 24, 2009 - 11:35AM #34
Free2beme09
Posts: 733

HowCanWeReconcile wrote:

Higher rate of child abuse than spousal abuse. It's harder to abuse a person when he is stronger & smarter & can defend himself. If you no longer want your partner, you cannot just kill him because he will fight you back. Pre-born babies have no capability to defend themselves.




Mr. Howcanwereconcile what is your point?  Just because someone is pro choice and supports a women's right to chose what she does with her body does not mean they too do not think that there is a limit.

If a child can survive outside of the women's womb this is a different matter, at least to me.  I "prefer" that women make their decision to abort in the first 7 weeks, where the medical field has advanced with a simple pill regiment that ends the pregnancy.  I think it is what is best for their body and emotional state.  I do not think it's too much to ask a women to decide in the first 7 weeks what she "needs" to do.  But again it's her body, and there are several factors to consider that may fall outside of the "norm."  I can not be pro choice and expect that limitations be put in place to suite me. ;)

I would like to know how many pregnant women or child each pro lifer is willing to house.  How many extra rooms do you have, or are willing to build onto your home?  You can birth the babies and raise them.  On top of that everyone can pay more in taxes to help with welfare and medical care for the children.  Sure women can use birth control, it seems simple doesn't it?  There are 100's of reasons women have unplanned pregnancies.

Remember as the population rises we can build houses stacked on top each other.  We can give spare change on the street to the homeless children and their families.       

Seem extreme!?  Well reread your posts that sounds like we stab babies as they are birthed or while they are in the womb.  :eek:

Religion is for those afraid of hell.  Spirituality is had by those who have been there!
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6 years ago  ::  Jan 24, 2009 - 12:19PM #35
Cricket1930
Posts: 22
[QUOTE=HowCanWeReconcile;1040632]If we are clear about the first question, the other questions are easier to answer. A woman with a full term baby is about to give birth and decides to have it aborted. What's the difference between aborting a baby one minute before he is born or murdering him one minute after he is born?[/QUOTE]

Oh, please!  How many women do you suppose go through 9 months of pregnancy and then decide they just don't want to go through delivery.....but simply demands an abortion instead?  Furthermore, there are restrictions on late term abortions.
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6 years ago  ::  Jan 24, 2009 - 1:00PM #36
Tmarie64
Posts: 5,277
[QUOTE=Daldianus;1040666]Is abortion murder? Yes or No?[/QUOTE]

And if it is murder... What should the punishment be?
James Thurber - "It is better to know some of the questions than all of the answers."
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6 years ago  ::  Jan 24, 2009 - 1:07PM #37
Daldianus
Posts: 32,442

Tmarie64 wrote:

And if it is murder... What should the punishment be?



Patience, patience, my friend :)

One step after the other. Let's not overwhelm them.

>> Feed your brain with awesome!
“After your death you will be what you were before your birth.” - Arthur Schopenhauer
"Eternity is very long, especially towards the end." - Woody Allen
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6 years ago  ::  Jan 24, 2009 - 3:26PM #38
solfeggio
Posts: 9,115
I find it very hard to believe that any woman with a full-term fetus who is ready to deliver at any moment would 'abort' her baby.  That just does not make any sense at all.  For one thing, if the baby is full-term, then even if the labour is induced, the baby will be born alive.  And no doctor is going to kill a live baby. 

I can't believe any doctor would kill a full-term baby in the womb on purpose, either, just because a woman said she couldn't go through with the birth.

I notice that the one pro-life person who posted here used the term 'preborn' to describe the embryo or zygote.  The idea, of course, is to make it seem as if this is a little person swimming happily about in amniotic fluid, just waiting for mommy to let him/her out so s/he can stop being preborn and be really born.

Nice try, but for the first couple of months it's still just a clump of cells.  And even when it's a fetus, it's not life as we know it.  Believe me, I know.  I had a miscarriage at five months, and we were not talking about some kind of real live baby there. 

freetobeme brings up a good point that I have often thought about, too: How many of these so-called 'pro-life' people would be ready, willing and able to take on some woman's baby?

Finally, why are people who would cheerfully put a woman's mental health in danger (if she really couldn't stand the idea of having a baby and became seriously depressed) or put a woman's physical health at risk (because some woman shouldn't become pregnant) be called 'pro-life'?

Really, it is the pro-choice people who are, in reality, pro-life as well, because they are thinking not just of the health of zygotes or embryos, but of the woman, which is far, far more important.
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6 years ago  ::  Jan 24, 2009 - 4:16PM #39
Free2beme09
Posts: 733

solfeggio wrote:


Finally, why are people who would cheerfully put a woman's mental health in danger (if she really couldn't stand the idea of having a baby and became seriously depressed) or put a woman's physical health at risk (because some woman shouldn't become pregnant) be called 'pro-life'?

Really, it is the pro-choice people who are, in reality, pro-life as well, because they are thinking not just of the health of zygotes or embryos, but of the woman, which is far, far more important.




You have a great point!  Let's add the emotional and mental abuse an unwanted child can suffer as well.  ;)

Most mothers tend to put their best foot forward and finally reach emotional breakdown somewhere between 3-6 years of age.  Since a good number of adoptive parents would fly as far as China for a infant, not to mention its easier to adopt there, this leaves a good number of children to be raised in the system or among other family members.  Nothing like grandma to raise several generations of children, so pro lifers can sleep at night.   Talk about feeling unwanted!  Poor children...

I think every alternative to abortion has it's price.  Pro Lifers give simple answers with no real in depth explanation.    :confused:

Religion is for those afraid of hell.  Spirituality is had by those who have been there!
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6 years ago  ::  Jan 24, 2009 - 8:31PM #40
boodlebear
Posts: 1,053
[QUOTE=Daldianus;1038572]Seriously? Geez ... But that explains why there's not many of them here ... What's a well-frequented prolife debate site?[/QUOTE]You can try www.topix.net  It is a news site, has 360,000 forums to choose from.  www.topix.com is the same site.  Give it a shot.
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