Important Announcement

See here for an important message regarding the community which has become a read-only site as of October 31.

 
Post Reply
Page 79 of 85  •  Prev 1 ... 77 78 79 80 81 ... 85 Next
Switch to Forum Live View Is abortion murder?
7 years ago  ::  Jan 23, 2010 - 5:37PM #781
newsjunkie
Posts: 5,750

Jan 23, 2010 -- 4:26PM, Bei1052 wrote:


Jan 23, 2010 -- 3:58PM, newsjunkie wrote:

scratch your head, laugh and cry, get all emotional if you like. Another option is to ignore me if I bother you so much.



No one's getting emotional and you don't bother me. It boggles the mind as to how can simply "not get it" after hearing something repeated to them ad nauseum.


What is confusing is that you said to amcolph in post 778


"Human beings aren't human beings because we're born or because we know how to walk or because we can speak or because we can reason or anything else of the like, nor are we human beings because we have the genome of one"


and now you seem to be saying it is the genome of the cell that makes it a murderable entity.



That's exactly what I said, and there's nothing confusing about that. You'll also notice I said, three times now, that hair follicles aren't human beings even though they have the full complement of human DNA. A genetically complete organism capable of developing into what you perceive as a "fully formed human being" =/= have the genome of a human being (Whatever that's supposed to mean). But I type stuff out for my own amusement, so I can't fault you for ignoring that.





If you had simply said to amcolph when he asked the first time that you think it's complete DNA and the potential to become a fully developed human being that makes the zygote a murderable human being, it would have been clear.


Under what circumstances, then, is the death of the human cell or human z/e/f that follows from its development, murder?

Quick Reply
Cancel
7 years ago  ::  Jan 23, 2010 - 6:16PM #782
Bei1052
Posts: 986

Jan 23, 2010 -- 5:37PM, newsjunkie wrote:

If you had simply said to amcolph when he asked the first time that you think it's complete DNA and the potential to become a fully developed human being that makes the zygote a murderable human being, it would have been clear.



...I said what I wrote out to begin with (And, just for the record, the above isn't really what I said, but rather what you think I said. But I'll let it go for argument's sake).


Under what circumstances, then, is the death of the human cell or human z/e/f that follows from its development, murder?



When it's premeditated, otherwise it's either homicide or negligence ;)

Quick Reply
Cancel
7 years ago  ::  Jan 24, 2010 - 12:37AM #783
Justme333
Posts: 1,101

Just a note that two posts were edited by me,  One to remove a couple of sentences that violated the ROC, and the other to remove the same two sentences when the original post was quoted.


Justme333
Beliefnet Community Host
Discuss Christianity Board

"Even if you are on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there."  Will Rogers

"Give to those who ask, and don't turn away from those who want to borrow."  Matthew 5:42

"Charity is no substitute for justice withheld."         St. Augustine

"Your love for God is only as great as the love you have for the person you love least."  Dorothy Day

"If you want peace, work for justice." Pope Paul VI
Quick Reply
Cancel
7 years ago  ::  Feb 17, 2010 - 6:12PM #784
Aleksa
Posts: 1,901

"Under what circumstances, then, is the death of the human ...  murder?" (newsjunkie)

"When it's premeditated, otherwise it's either homicide or negligence" (Bei1052)


When it comes to abortions, since spontaneous ones (miscarriages) and induced ones by some quack are indistinguishable, there is no way to determine premeditation. 


- Aleksa

Quick Reply
Cancel
7 years ago  ::  Feb 25, 2010 - 2:42PM #785
Eliascomes
Posts: 1,500

 Abortion is murder, but this society which we live in is very ruthless, selfish, and etc...  How can a young girl that's naive to life, how can she survive in this world? We pay taxes to help others, but everyone want the free hand out which we give to the welfare programs to help people in these situations. And now the givers want back what they've given. The ones that governs the system want raises to live lavished with their own , but they're not worrying about the ones that are in most need of the money. I know we don't feel like we should be obligated to take care of someone else children. But it take a tribe to raise a child.


 And by us removing the Bibles from our schools, jobs, and justice system. Doesn't make it better. We should be proud to give, but we aren't. We reach out our hands to help someone, but when the load gets too heavy, we let go.


 So I feel that the ones that are aborting their unborn child should be left alone. It should be between them and God. Because we first need to removed the log from our own eyes in order to see how to remove the speck from their eyes.

Quick Reply
Cancel
6 years ago  ::  Mar 07, 2010 - 2:15PM #786
Kelly
Posts: 6

Yes it is , As the cells that are splitting  and forming life . It is making a "person " that is breathing , heart beating . It not a "BLOB" of tissue . It is trueley the most amazing thing that only God could have made a human to do . Just think that 2 things that you can not even see with the naked eye can come together and make a complex body with all the internal and external workings that all work together to make a baby that grows into a adult with a brain that is a sponge waiting to be filled up with everything around us.

Quick Reply
Cancel
6 years ago  ::  Mar 07, 2010 - 4:56PM #787
newsjunkie
Posts: 5,750

Mar 7, 2010 -- 2:15PM, Kelly wrote:


Yes it is , As the cells that are splitting  and forming life . It is making a "person " that is breathing , heart beating . It not a "BLOB" of tissue . It is trueley the most amazing thing that only God could have made a human to do . Just think that 2 things that you can not even see with the naked eye can come together and make a complex body with all the internal and external workings that all work together to make a baby that grows into a adult with a brain that is a sponge waiting to be filled up with everything around us.





Hi Kelly, you are quite clear in saying that abortion is murder. May I ask what you think the penalty should be for a woman who has an abortion, given you view her as having committed murder? Thank you.

Quick Reply
Cancel
6 years ago  ::  Mar 07, 2010 - 7:09PM #788
Kelly
Posts: 6

There have been many studies that shown that the women/girls that have abortions suffer from depression, guilt, shame. They end up putting themselves though their personal "Hell". There are many groups out there that help the women deal with this and to be able to forgive themselves. I know this happens because I have a family member that suffered with the afterthoughts for over 25 years . She was finally able to forgive herself and grieve for her lost child. She still remembers everything like it was yesterday . What she was wearing , how she felt, the smells around her, what the person was wearing and talking about that took her. She remembers the date of the abortion and the babies due date.


Women and Young women need to know that there are other choices that they have and it is Ok to have that child that people will help and support her decision. If they are given all the facts about the abortion to begin with most would change their minds. we have families going to other Nations to adopt when we have many right here now and would have more without abortion.


I am a single mom and raised 4 daughter of my own from when my oldest was 16 and youngest was 4 and and have had to deal with unplanned pregnancies. I am very grateful to say that I have 2 very happy healthy grandsons. In fact them having those babies saved their lives. One was in a very abusive relationship and when her son was born all she could think about was saving him from the abuse. She left him and came home to a very caring ,loving family . Which my doors are never closed to any of them at anytime.


They are now both married to wonderful men that love their sons as their own and one even adopted my grandson and both of my girls have had 2 more children. So as you can see I have experienced BOTH sides of it.


I have 6 wonderful grandchildren and cant wait for many more.


 


 


 


 

Quick Reply
Cancel
6 years ago  ::  Mar 07, 2010 - 8:46PM #789
newsjunkie
Posts: 5,750

Mar 7, 2010 -- 7:09PM, Kelly wrote:


There have been many studies that shown that the women/girls that have abortions suffer from depression, guilt, shame. They end up putting themselves though their personal "Hell". There are many groups out there that help the women deal with this and to be able to forgive themselves. I know this happens because I have a family member that suffered with the afterthoughts for over 25 years . She was finally able to forgive herself and grieve for her lost child. She still remembers everything like it was yesterday . What she was wearing , how she felt, the smells around her, what the person was wearing and talking about that took her. She remembers the date of the abortion and the babies due date.


Women and Young women need to know that there are other choices that they have and it is Ok to have that child that people will help and support her decision. If they are given all the facts about the abortion to begin with most would change their minds. we have families going to other Nations to adopt when we have many right here now and would have more without abortion.


I am a single mom and raised 4 daughter of my own from when my oldest was 16 and youngest was 4 and and have had to deal with unplanned pregnancies. I am very grateful to say that I have 2 very happy healthy grandsons. In fact them having those babies saved their lives. One was in a very abusive relationship and when her son was born all she could think about was saving him from the abuse. She left him and came home to a very caring ,loving family . Which my doors are never closed to any of them at anytime.


They are now both married to wonderful men that love their sons as their own and one even adopted my grandson and both of my girls have had 2 more children. So as you can see I have experienced BOTH sides of it.


I have 6 wonderful grandchildren and cant wait for many more.


 


 


 


 




Perhaps you musunderstood my question. If abortion is murder, what punishment do you think a woman who has an abortion should receive, under the law?

Quick Reply
Cancel
6 years ago  ::  Mar 07, 2010 - 9:07PM #790
Kelly
Posts: 6

Under the law ,  don't think they should be "charged " . For many reason as I stated in my answer before. They put themselves in their own personal HELL. There maybe a time when they are charged but I hope not. They have just recently been able to charge a person for a double murder when a pregnat women is killed.   But we as a nation should not give out grants for abortions. The public needs to be more educated about what really happens to the women and the baby.

Quick Reply
Cancel
Page 79 of 85  •  Prev 1 ... 77 78 79 80 81 ... 85 Next
 
    Viewing this thread :: 0 registered and 1 guest
    No registered users viewing
    Advertisement

    Beliefnet On Facebook