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4 years ago  ::  Oct 31, 2012 - 4:20PM #841
Grimace_the_bold
Posts: 47

Oct 31, 2012 -- 1:54AM, CLBERNADETTEH wrote:


the torah is jewish and to me as a catholic i personally condemn it but i cant speak for others!


what do you believe? seing as you seem to know everything??!!





I believe that the Torah is part of the Bible, and therefore a part of Christian religion since you guys take the Old Testament and make claims about Jesus being the Messiah and fulfilling the prophesies of the Old Tetsament.  Therefore you can't dismiss all but the parts you find most politically expedient and enjoyable to the current cultural norms without good justification.


 


The whole idea that the Bible is "Pro Life" or otherwise anti-abortion is false and there is plenty to see in the Bible to indicate that the importance of human life was based on whether said human life already worshipped the Israelite god or was a non believer, and that those in the non believer category experienced dehumanization and oppression for being the "Other" in the societies that developed a "God based society" based on the norms of the Hebrews or the texts of the Bible. 

If you're really following the text Jesus followed, it would be the Torah.  It would mean eating lobster is forbidden.  Wearing mixed fabrics is forbidden.  Religious based prostitution would be punishable by death, as would blasphmy, cursing one's parents, being a member of a different faith inside the cities that instititued religious laws.  It would mean that women were at best second class citizens, at worst they were property.  Slavery would be legal so long as the state in question allowed for slaves to be purchased from other slave owning states. 

All I want from Christians is consistancy.  If you're against abortion, don't pin it on the Bible.  The texts of the Bible are reflective of a very different world view from the 21st Century West, and many of our values don't have a place in a Biblical based society, namingly univseral human rights, democracy, pluralism and multiculturalism, or individualism. 


That and often times anti abortion legislation is proposed that serves no secular purpose and is backed by misreadings of the Bible to support culturally based ideologies about imposing theocracy on the citizens of the United States, a tyranny really of a select few against the majority for so called "religious morals" that were misunderstandings of the texts or based on particular subjective norms or "morality".

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4 years ago  ::  Oct 31, 2012 - 8:26PM #842
CLBERNADETTEH
Posts: 27

in my opinion the torah is not christian at all  so most catholics allthough cant speak for all condemn it especially if you are a traditional latin right catholic like myself. to me the toarh is bad news for my faith i dont wish to have naything to do with it at all ever!


but if its what you believe then plase carry on in doing so no one can take your faith away if its what you truly beleive i merely just gave you my opinion on what i thought and what i beleive.

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4 years ago  ::  Oct 31, 2012 - 11:54PM #843
McAtheist
Posts: 9,224

CL: in my opinion the torah is not christian at all


A clarification, please --- I thouht the Torah was the first 5 books of the bible, the supposed 5 books of Moses: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy.  Are you all talking about some other Torah or does the catholic church not use the Old Testament these days?


Thanks for the info

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3 years ago  ::  Nov 01, 2012 - 5:45PM #844
CLBERNADETTEH
Posts: 27

Oct 31, 2012 -- 11:54PM, McAtheist wrote:

CL: in my opinion the torah is not christian at all


A clarification, please --- I thouht the Torah was the first 5 books of the bible, the supposed 5 books of Moses: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy.  Are you all talking about some other Torah or does the catholic church not use the Old Testament these days?


Thanks for the info


the toarh is jewish and has absolutely nothing to do with the catholic faith whatsoewver catholics are not jewish


heres a link to help you understand the reasons why!


www.betemunah.org/reasons.html



claire






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3 years ago  ::  Nov 02, 2012 - 5:14AM #845
bluehorserunning
Posts: 1,754

Nov 1, 2012 -- 5:45PM, CLBERNADETTEH wrote:

Oct 31, 2012 -- 11:54PM, McAtheist wrote:


CL: in my opinion the torah is not christian at all


A clarification, please --- I thouht the Torah was the first 5 books of the bible, the supposed 5 books of Moses: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy.  Are you all talking about some other Torah or does the catholic church not use the Old Testament these days?


Thanks for the info




the toarh is jewish and has absolutely nothing to do with the catholic faith whatsoewver catholics are not jewish


heres a link to help you understand the reasons why!


www.betemunah.org/reasons.html



claire



Of course Catholics/Christians are not Jewish; however, the Torah and the old testament of the Bible are virtually identical.  The addition of the New Testament is what separated the Christian Bible from the Torah.


Edit:  not that this has any relevance to the topic of this forum...

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3 years ago  ::  Nov 02, 2012 - 2:04PM #846
Grimace_the_bold
Posts: 47

Oct 31, 2012 -- 8:26PM, CLBERNADETTEH wrote:


in my opinion the torah is not christian at all  so most catholics allthough cant speak for all condemn it especially if you are a traditional latin right catholic like myself. to me the toarh is bad news for my faith i dont wish to have naything to do with it at all ever!


but if its what you believe then plase carry on in doing so no one can take your faith away if its what you truly beleive i merely just gave you my opinion on what i thought and what i beleive.




It goes back to the source of your claim's legitimacy, which you rest on the Church and Catholic doctrines found supposedly on the New Testament, which are in turn predicated on the validity of the Torah and the doctrines and stories of the Torah.



This in turn means you are either ignoring the claims the Torah makes to have a culturally based value judgement based on modern ideas or you are simply trying to discount the importantance of the Torah because you don't understand how it is tied to the New Testemant and the claims you made based on a particular view of the New Testament.



As long as it's just opinions and not calls for legislation and policy that would be imposed on the people, I don't seem the problem.  However much of the anti abortion legislation is not based on any secular reasoning, but on arguments similar to yours. 

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3 years ago  ::  Nov 06, 2012 - 6:31PM #847
MarleneEmmett5
Posts: 1,799

Nov 1, 2012 -- 5:45PM, CLBERNADETTEH wrote:

Oct 31, 2012 -- 11:54PM, McAtheist wrote:


CL: in my opinion the torah is not christian at all


A clarification, please --- I thouht the Torah was the first 5 books of the bible, the supposed 5 books of Moses: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy.  Are you all talking about some other Torah or does the catholic church not use the Old Testament these days?


Thanks for the info




the toarh is jewish and has absolutely nothing to do with the catholic faith whatsoewver catholics are not jewish


heres a link to help you understand the reasons why!


www.betemunah.org/reasons.html



claire










clbernetti/claire:

I'd love to remind you of a very important fact about Jesus's heritage,that you may have
forgotten~ JESUS WAS A JEW!!!! HE WAS OF THE HOUSE OF DAVID,AS WERE HIS PARENTS!

The linage of the House of David can be found in the Book of Ruth.
Joseph & Mary were both of the House of David

I chose to remember Jesus's Jewish roots.
I'm Jewish,Italian,Austrian,Irish,German & Russian.
I'm also Pro Life,Pro Adoption & Anti Abortion.
But one thing I also am is I'm closer to being Catholic than I am Jewish.
I beleive in Christ and that he died for my sins~one of which is that I had an unwanted
abortion when I was 18. I know that he's forgiven me my sin.

The difference to me between Catholic & Jew is no finer than a human hair
Jesus was a Jew,he died a Jew~ the only thing is that he was Cruixfied by the Romans
which was the form of punishment in those days~ Jesus wasn't put to Death by the Jews.
They couldn't pass the sentance of death~so they turned to Pilate,the Roman procurator
to pass sentence.

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3 years ago  ::  Nov 09, 2012 - 12:39AM #848
Justme333
Posts: 1,101

Whoa folks.  This is the Abortion Debate Board, not the Discuss Catholicism Board.  Anyone wanting to discuss Catholicism can do so here: http://community.beliefnet.com/go/forum/view/43851/70729/discuss_catholicism 
Further posts debating Catholicism will be removed as off topic.


Justme333
Beliefnet Community Host
Abortion Debate Board 

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"Give to those who ask, and don't turn away from those who want to borrow."  Matthew 5:42

"Charity is no substitute for justice withheld."         St. Augustine

"Your love for God is only as great as the love you have for the person you love least."  Dorothy Day

"If you want peace, work for justice." Pope Paul VI
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