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Switch to Forum Live View The reason for all animal cruelty and killing by humans
6 years ago  ::  Mar 15, 2008 - 1:10PM #1
SkyWalker53
Posts: 2,235
Bob's thread inspired this one. The study he posted shows (of course) that hunting, animal cruelty, killing and violence in general (war, violent crimes) is overwhelmingly a male gender activity. When we understand the root of a huge problem in our society, massive animal cruelty, violence, wars...we can work on understanding why we have so easily just accepted and participated in violence in our society, especially in our diets. We don't have to.

So, wouldn't the solution to violence be to "neuter" all human males at birth, a biological solution to a biological problem? Since that will never happen, I would imagine that the awareness of the root of violence would be enough to allow thinking humans to realize that we don't have to accept the male gender created culture of animal cruelty, killing, or violence AT ALL. As a female, I completely reject the violent society created by males. I know there are a good handful of males who do to (Bob, thank you). Our entire society is extremely cruel and violent to animals because it is a male gender institution as you will read in the article link below:

Evolution, Males, and Violence

http://chronicle.com/free/v48/i37/37b00701.htm

....if you were to ask someone to describe human violence, only rarely would you hear that it is overwhelmingly perpetrated by males. And yet, the truth is that if we could eliminate or even significantly reduce male violence, we would pretty much get rid of violence altogether. The maleness of violence is so overwhelming that it is rarely even noticed; it is the ocean in which we swim.

What might be called the "killing establishment" -- soldiers, executioners, hunters, even slaughterhouse workers -- is overwhelmingly male. Underworld killers such as violent gangs are also peopled largely by men. Whenever seemingly unprovoked and deadly shootings occur in homes and workplaces, men are typically the mass murderers. Nor is this imbalance limited to the United States: Whether in Kosovo, Rwanda, Cambodia, the Middle East, Guatemala, or Afghanistan, when people kill and maim other people, men are nearly always the culprits. And of course, the lethal operatives of Al Qaeda and its equivalent are reliably male, as are those sent to combat them.
...
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6 years ago  ::  Mar 15, 2008 - 4:05PM #2
solfeggio
Posts: 9,128
Sky -
As usual, you are absolutely right.  And I completely agree with your assessments here.  This is a very important topic that should inspire debate.

Carol J. Adams' book, 'The Sexual Politics of Meat' should be required reading for everybody, showing as it does how the practise of meat-eating is very closely associated with the values of the dominant males in all cultures.  The parallel between speciesism and sexism is too obvious to ignore.

As Ms. Adams has observed:

'We live in a world of dominance in which the dominant side is over and above the non-dominant "other" 'which would include both animals and women.

Men view women not as unique individuals, but rather as consumables to be used.  And this is synonymous with the way men view animals.

Carol J. Adams published another book, 'The Pornography of Meat,' in 2003.
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6 years ago  ::  Mar 15, 2008 - 8:54PM #3
SkyWalker53
Posts: 2,235
[QUOTE=solfeggio;358995]Sky -
As usual, you are absolutely right.  And I completely agree with your assessments here.  This is a very important topic that should inspire debate.

Carol J. Adams' book, 'The Sexual Politics of Meat' should be required reading for everybody, showing as it does how the practise of meat-eating is very closely associated with the values of the dominant males in all cultures.  The parallel between speciesism and sexism is too obvious to ignore.

As Ms. Adams has observed:

'We live in a world of dominance in which the dominant side is over and above the non-dominant "other" 'which would include both animals and women.

Men view women not as unique individuals, but rather as consumables to be used.  And this is synonymous with the way men view animals.

Carol J. Adams published another book, 'The Pornography of Meat,' in 2003.[/QUOTE]

all right, another book on a very eye-opening subject. The heart of this entire problem lies in a biological hormone.

Doesn't knowing that animal cruelty and meat eating was forced on all of us by the testosterone driven male gender make it all the more repugnant?

Come on ladies, are you still going to do what a male culture taught you to do? animal cruelty is not your choice, it was forced on you by a male dominated culture and it's up to you to change it.  100 years ago you would have HAD to cook and serve his dead animals for him. You are no longer men's property and slaves. You are now able to help others be free of domination just as you became free of domination. Don't take your new found equality for granted.
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6 years ago  ::  Mar 16, 2008 - 3:24PM #4
Suze_M
Posts: 450
[QUOTE=SkyWalker53;358685]Bob's thread inspired this one. The study he posted shows (of course) that hunting, animal cruelty, killing and violence in general (war, violent crimes) is overwhelmingly a male gender activity. When we understand the root of a huge problem in our society, massive animal cruelty, violence, wars...we can work on understanding why we have so easily just accepted and participated in violence in our society, especially in our diets. We don't have to.

So, wouldn't the solution to violence be to "neuter" all human males at birth, a biological solution to a biological problem? Since that will never happen, I would imagine that the awareness of the root of violence would be enough to allow thinking humans to realize that we don't have to accept the male gender created culture of animal cruelty, killing, or violence AT ALL. As a female, I completely reject the violent society created by males. I know there are a good handful of males who do to (Bob, thank you). Our entire society is extremely cruel and violent to animals because it is a male gender institution as you will read in the article link below:

Evolution, Males, and Violence

http://chronicle.com/free/v48/i37/37b00701.htm

....if you were to ask someone to describe human violence, only rarely would you hear that it is overwhelmingly perpetrated by males. And yet, the truth is that if we could eliminate or even significantly reduce male violence, we would pretty much get rid of violence altogether. The maleness of violence is so overwhelming that it is rarely even noticed; it is the ocean in which we swim.

What might be called the "killing establishment" -- soldiers, executioners, hunters, even slaughterhouse workers -- is overwhelmingly male. Underworld killers such as violent gangs are also peopled largely by men. Whenever seemingly unprovoked and deadly shootings occur in homes and workplaces, men are typically the mass murderers. Nor is this imbalance limited to the United States: Whether in Kosovo, Rwanda, Cambodia, the Middle East, Guatemala, or Afghanistan, when people kill and maim other people, men are nearly always the culprits. And of course, the lethal operatives of Al Qaeda and its equivalent are reliably male, as are those sent to combat them.
...[/QUOTE]

SKY
I think you might like these three women professors at MSU faculty!.



the link is not to the article but to the critics of it at Michigan Times.It remined me of some of your discussions when I read these parts.
I will see if I can find the article.

MSU professors link hunting with sexual violence

"Three female Michigan State University professors studied the magazine "Traditional Bowhunter," and concluded that hunting is a form of sexual violence with animals substituted for women. They describe hunting as, "erotic heterosexual predation, sadomasochism, restraint for aggressive sexual energy, and allied with the abuse of women." I think I need to take up bowhunting."



"Violence against animals and women is linked by a theory of 'overlapping but absent referents' that institutionalizes patriarchal values...animals often are the absent referents in actions and phrases that actually are about women-and women often are the absent referents for animals."

http://www.themichigantimes.com/media/p … 1224.shtml
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6 years ago  ::  Mar 16, 2008 - 3:59PM #5
Gandalf_Parker
Posts: 1,188
Have you ever considered that you are the Tom Cruise of your cause? Its not the facts that cause your effect, its the fanaticism that you present it in. You could probably achieve more if you chose lesser battles
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6 years ago  ::  Mar 16, 2008 - 3:43PM #6
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,782
[QUOTE=Suze_M;360817]SKY
I think you might like these three women professors at MSU faculty!.



the link is not to the article but to the critics of it at Michigan Times.It remined me of some of your discussions when I read these parts.
I will see if I can find the article.

MSU professors link hunting with sexual violence

"Three female Michigan State University professors studied the magazine "Traditional Bowhunter," and concluded that hunting is a form of sexual violence with animals substituted for women. They describe hunting as, "erotic heterosexual predation, sadomasochism, restraint for aggressive sexual energy, and allied with the abuse of women." I think I need to take up bowhunting."



"Violence against animals and women is linked by a theory of 'overlapping but absent referents' that institutionalizes patriarchal values...animals often are the absent referents in actions and phrases that actually are about women-and women often are the absent referents for animals."

http://www.themichigantimes.com/media/p … 1224.shtml[/QUOTE]


LMFAO!!!!!!


All the bowhunters I know are married, good husbands and excellent fathers.

Brilliant "study".. they just read a magazine and make a bunch of assumptions. Did they bother to meet any bowhunters, or their wives or girlfriends?  Or how about women bowhunters... I know plenty of them too. I don't bowhunt personally, but I admire the degree of skill, patience and knowledge of wildlife it requires... especially with a traditional recurve or longbow.

As for me, personally, I was raised to believe that raising your hand to a woman is the quickest and surest way to prove that you are a coward and an absolute pussy -- and that a gentleman doesn't so much as touch a woman sexually unless it's clear that's what she desires. Respect for women is at the core of the masculine values I was raised with.

This is what happens when pseudo-intellectual city slickers end up with too much time on their hands.
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6 years ago  ::  Mar 16, 2008 - 4:10PM #7
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,782
[QUOTE=Gandalf_Parker;360865]Have you ever considered that you are the Tom Cruise of your cause? Its not the facts that cause your effect, its the fanaticism that you present it in. You could probably achieve more if you chose lesser battles[/QUOTE]

I agree, the basic premise is sound. I've often said myself, "Don't blame religion for war -- the main cause of war is testosterone, religion is only sometimes used as window dressing."

I do think as humanity evolves, and women achieve true equality -- not just lip service to equality or being expected to be "equals" by acting like men -- then things will, overall, become far less violent and brutal.

That doesn't mean men have to be emasulcated wussies... it just means a stronger influence of femine energy will bring more balance and a greater likelyhood of solutions not involving armed conflict.
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6 years ago  ::  Mar 16, 2008 - 4:29PM #8
Suze_M
Posts: 450
[QUOTE=mytmouse57;360840]LMFAO!!!!!!


All the bowhunters I know are married, good husbands and excellent fathers.

Brilliant "study".. they just read a magazine and make a bunch of assumptions. Did they bother to meet any bowhunters, or their wives or girlfriends?  Or how about women bowhunters... I know plenty of them too. I don't bowhunt personally, but I admire the degree of skill, patience and knowledge of wildlife it requires... especially with a traditional recurve or longbow.

As for me, personally, I was raised to believe that raising your hand to a woman is the quickest and surest way to prove that you are a coward and an absolute pussy -- and that a gentleman doesn't so much as touch a woman sexually unless it's clear that's what she desires. Respect for women is at the core of the masculine values I was raised with.

This is what happens when pseudo-intellectual city slickers end up with too much time on their hands.[/QUOTE]

there you go again.........You keep bringing "individuals" into discussing of  "practices".
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6 years ago  ::  Mar 16, 2008 - 4:33PM #9
Suze_M
Posts: 450
[QUOTE=Gandalf_Parker;360865]Have you ever considered that you are the Tom Cruise of your cause? Its not the facts that cause your effect, its the fanaticism that you present it in. You could probably achieve more if you chose lesser battles[/QUOTE]

There isn’t anything more “fanatic” than “killing” and torturing billions of innocent creatures.
There is no word in dictionary that can be “fanatic” enough for those barbaric practices.
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6 years ago  ::  Mar 16, 2008 - 7:15PM #10
SkyWalker53
Posts: 2,235
[QUOTE=Suze_M;360817]SKY
I think you might like these three women professors at MSU faculty!.



the link is not to the article but to the critics of it at Michigan Times.It remined me of some of your discussions when I read these parts.
I will see if I can find the article.

MSU professors link hunting with sexual violence

"Three female Michigan State University professors studied the magazine "Traditional Bowhunter," and concluded that hunting is a form of sexual violence with animals substituted for women. They describe hunting as, "erotic heterosexual predation, sadomasochism, restraint for aggressive sexual energy, and allied with the abuse of women." I think I need to take up bowhunting."



"Violence against animals and women is linked by a theory of 'overlapping but absent referents' that institutionalizes patriarchal values...animals often are the absent referents in actions and phrases that actually are about women-and women often are the absent referents for animals."

http://www.themichigantimes.com/media/p … 1224.shtml[/QUOTE]

good article Suze. I wish I could find the full story somewhere.
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