[QUOTE=mountain_man;751612]It's not going to go anywhere anyway. Nothing you could ever say would convince me it is OK to kill people for any reason - other than immediate self defense or the immediate defense of someone being attacked.[/QUOTE]

Fair enough.

:)

[QUOTE=mountain_man;749691]I don't, you do. You keep saying you want to kill people.

killing people is wrong. You believe that killing people is so wrong that you want to kill people to prove it. That makes absolutely no sense to me.[/QUOTE]

This really can't go anywhere if you just keep repeating your ideas about the supposed personal motives of others and/or parroting slogans from bumper stickers.

I've never once said I want to kill people.

I've never said killing people is "wrong" in the universal sense -- because there are times when it's justified.

I said the state/society is sometimes justified in taking a person's life from them -- in much the same manner it's justified in taking away their liberty and ability to pursue happiness.

It's not about "proving" anything to anybody.

So, I'll quit wasting time repeating myself on this particular thread and call it good -- I've made my arguments. Now, if you want to come up with something new -- some valid counter-point -- then we can discuss that.

[QUOTE=mountain_man;746712]Nope, just going by what you say. From what I see you are saying that you want to kill people because you do not like them because of something they have done.[/QUOTE]

Why do you keep saying I want to kill people? If I wanted to kill people, I'd undergo the appropriate training and then go look for work as a mercenary. Sadly, still plenty of demand for that profession in the world -- I'm sure I'd have no trouble finding jobs.

It's not about liking or disliking people personally. I've said some of the first-degree murderers I've been in close proximity to make me feel uncomfortable or instinctively on my guard -- and for darn good reason.

Doing something like, say, sharing some donuts and light conversation with them under controlled and supervised circumstances might not be at all unpleasant. After all, people are people and I've found that one can find something to chat about with just about anybody. But they aren't the kind of people you would probably want to take a long drive down a lonely road with. I mean heck, an argument could start over what radio station to listen to and the next thing you know...

Anyway, it's about the things they've done giving the state/society just reason to consider their lives forfeit. Again, if I steal cars because that particular expression of my liberty makes me happy -- then the state/society is justified in making my rights to liberty and the pursuit of happiness forfeit.

Well, it's the same principle -- only with their right to continue living.

Whether any particular first-degree murderer ends up going to the execution chamber is ultimately up to the state, a jury and a judge. As it should be. Impersonal, logical and based on the facts.

No personal like or dislike involved.

[QUOTE=catholiclady;743673]We are no better than the murders themselves if we murder them. The TEN COMMANDMENTS say
THOU SHALT NOT KILL.
That is a law from G*D not man as the Death Penalty is.[/QUOTE]

The commandment, which is part of the OT, is actually more accurately translated as thou shalt not MURDER.

And, three guesses what the penalty for murder was under OT religious law. That's right -- death.

In fact, the death penalty is prescribed in the OT for numerous offenses. For instance, an adulterous woman was to be put to death.  Read the Bible -- you might be surprised.

Furthermore, The OT God himself commanded the children of Israel  more than once to go to war and KILL their enemies. Right down to the last child. Moses, who delivered the 10 Commandments was, among other things, a general who -- under God's orders and with God's blessings, led his troops to KILL the enemies of Israel.

Now, not that I'm suggesting we run our society under strict OT religious law. It would make contemporary Saudi Arabia look like progressive liberalism. The laws the ancient Hebrews lived under were very strict -- and for good reason. They often lived in exile, surrounded by enemies the wanted to kill them off. Life was different then. It was very brutal. So, the laws also tended to be harsh, unbending and brutal.

But the point is, saying the 10 Commandments -- which are OT and therefore first and foremost Jewish religious law -- forbid the death penalty is a deeply flawed argument.

Besides, our secular laws can't -- and shouldn't -- be based on religion anyway.

We are no better than the murders themselves if we murder them. The TEN COMMANDMENTS say
THOU SHALT NOT KILL.
That is a law from G*D not man as the Death Penalty is.