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Switch to Forum Live View What about escapees?
6 years ago  ::  Aug 10, 2008 - 9:58PM #1
aquinasmind
Posts: 181
The ethics and morality of the death penalty can certainly be debated until the cows come home. Both sides put up convincing arguments at times, but there is one case and one argument that is often made that I think is simply falacious. The argument made is "Well, we don't need the death penalty because we can guarantee that a convict never kills again by locking him up in a secure prison." Well, on December 24th 2000 in South Texas, 7 men called the "Texas 7," escaped from a maximum security penitentiary and made their way to Irving Texas. The men stole guard uniforms and had outside help. There was an APB put out for the escapees who were now getting desparate as they heard reports about the manhunt. They broke into a sporting goods store to steal guns and ammuntion. A few blocks away Officer Aubrey Hawkins was having Christmas dinner with his wife and son when he got the call. He attempted to aprehend the men and was shot several times. The men thought Officer Hawkins was dead (he was not) so they ran over his headwith his own squad car essentially causing his head to explode. They were later taken into custody, and per the Texas Penal Code were tried for Capital Murder because they not only murdered as a result of an escape BUT they murdered a peace officer. How does the arguement "we dont need the death penalty because we can lock people up and keep them away from society stand up?" Not to mention all of the murders that take place inside the prison; guards, other inmates, etc. I bring this up because one of the men involved in the senseless murder of officer Hawkins is scheduled to die Thursday. IMHO Thursday can't come quickly enough!

http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/stat/rodriguezmichael.htm

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080810/ap_ … _execution
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 10, 2008 - 10:11PM #2
mountain_man
Posts: 40,582
So, what you are saying is that we should kill hundreds of people because of the rare event that one of them escapes.

I don't buy it.
Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 10, 2008 - 10:16PM #3
Tmarie64
Posts: 5,277

mountain_man wrote:

So, what you are saying is that we should kill hundreds of people because of the rare event that one of them escapes.

I don't buy it.


I know two families who would "buy it" with everything they have ever had.  They are the parents of the victims in this story...
http://www.courierpress.com/news/2008/a … -escapees/
[QUOTE]Families of women killed by Hopkins County jail escapees settle lawsuit

The families of two women killed by a pair of escaped convicts on a multistate crime spree settled a lawsuit against a western Kentucky jail Thursday.  The parents of Samantha Burns, of West Hamlin, W.Va., and the husband of Alice Donovan, of Galivants Ferry, S.C., reached an agreement with Hopkins County, the county jail and its employees over the escape of inmates Brandon Basham and Chadrick Fulks on Nov. 4, 2002. The families claimed the jail was negligent by leaving the inmates unsupervised and not having properly working security cameras.
  Fulks and Basham were sentenced to death for killing Donovan, 44, in December 2002. They were given life sentences in the death of Burns, a 19-year-old Marshall University student. Neither woman’s body has been found.[/QUOTE]



The burned out car of one woman was found... nothing on the other.

James Thurber - "It is better to know some of the questions than all of the answers."
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 10, 2008 - 10:32PM #4
aquinasmind
Posts: 181
[QUOTE=mountain_man;682227]So, what you are saying is that we should kill hundreds of people because of the rare event that one of them escapes.

I don't buy it.[/QUOTE]

No I am not saying that Mountain Man. The penal system CAN NOT guarantee that an inmate will never kill again. Perfect example of this being the Texas 7.
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 10, 2008 - 10:35PM #5
aquinasmind
Posts: 181
[QUOTE=mountain_man;682227]So, what you are saying is that we should kill hundreds of people because of the rare event that one of them escapes.

I don't buy it.[/QUOTE]

Besides had each of these men been sentenced to death originally for murder then they would never have been able to kill Officer Hawkins on Christmas Eve.  You can not guarantee that an inmate locked up (even with life without parole) will never kill again. I can however guarantee that that same inmate if executed will never commit murder ever again.
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 10, 2008 - 10:58PM #6
bubbysmommy
Posts: 1,119
[QUOTE=aquinasmind;682295]Besides had each of these men been sentenced to death originally for murder then they would never have been able to kill Officer Hawkins on Christmas Eve.  You can not guarantee that an inmate locked up (even with life without parole) will never kill again. I can however guarantee that that same inmate if executed will never commit murder ever again.[/QUOTE]

[COLOR="RoyalBlue"]Absolutely[/COLOR]
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 10, 2008 - 11:06PM #7
aquinasmind
Posts: 181
I can appriciate some arguments against the death penalty but in a case like this it is so henious and so grevious that the only just punishment is for the perpetrators of this act to pay with their lives. There is no way in my opinion that a person could possibly rationally defend the life of a ruthless cop killer. BTW they were laughing as they heard his head go "squish"
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 10, 2008 - 11:40PM #8
mountain_man
Posts: 40,582

Tmarie64 wrote:

I know two families who would "buy it"


You want to kill people just because two out of ~100 million families had a very bad experience? You want to kill people that would not do that? Why do you want to kill so bad?

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 10, 2008 - 11:42PM #9
mountain_man
Posts: 40,582

aquinasmind wrote:

No I am not saying that Mountain Man. The penal system CAN NOT guarantee that an inmate will never kill again.


Life does not come with guarantees. Killing people will not change that. No one can guarantee that someone, anyone, will not kill. Should we start killing everyone so that they won't kill? All you are doing is devaluing life and creating a circle of death. Break the circle by valuing life - all life.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 10, 2008 - 11:43PM #10
mountain_man
Posts: 40,582

aquinasmind wrote:

I can appriciate some arguments against the death penalty but in a case like this it is so henious and so grevious that the only just punishment is for the perpetrators of this act to pay with their lives.


Your idea of a "just punishment" is to kill a lot of people that were not involved in those crimes? that makes no sense... but then the death penalty makes no sense.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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