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Switch to Forum Live View Innocent Man by John Grishom
11 years ago  ::  Dec 24, 2007 - 12:03PM #1
Posts: 265
I am almost done with it, but it has already impacted my view on the death penalty.  It is the true story of men convicted falsely of murder and sent to death row.  It is impeccably researched and well written.  It's the kind of book that makes you wonder about your perspective after each sentence.
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10 years ago  ::  Jan 26, 2008 - 10:02PM #2
Posts: 10,753
livelife -
I haven't read this Grisham book, but I will, because I love Grisham's stuff and have read most of his other books.  Have you read 'Street Lawyer'?  That's another good one.  And 'The Pelican Brief,' and 'The Firm' are great, as are the movies they made from those books, although the movie makers changed the plot lines for dramatic impact.

The idea of an innocent person being excuted is scary enough that in recent years the governor of Illinois called for a stop to executions until they could get everybody's DNA evidence sorted out.
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10 years ago  ::  May 03, 2008 - 12:46PM #3
Posts: 2,562
[QUOTE=richardt;474839]That we should suspend the Dp because innocent people may be executed is that same for any event where innocents people may be killed, should we do away with all travel, carnival rides, sporting events, anything where an innocent person could be killed? Tell me the difference between someone being stuck by lightning on a golf course and an innocent person being executed, both are the result of being at the wrong place at the wrong time, a victim of circumstance, unfortunate but do we then stop all golfing.[/QUOTE]

If you do some actual research into MOJ (miscarriage of justice) cases you will notice a disturbing tendancy of the authorities to actualy suspect they are innocent but keep their convictions anyway.

Death of innocents by the DP is often avoidable if law enforcment do a decent job and stop negativly profiling people based on baises and bigotry; to equate MOJ and DP cases as being just accidents is deeply, deeply ignorant of MOJ cases.

(MOJ = miscarriages of justice, DP = death penalty)

You want proof of the willfullness of MOJ cases? see the questionable justice and the DP thread.

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10 years ago  ::  May 03, 2008 - 7:00PM #4
Posts: 2,562
[QUOTE=richardt;474999]I suppose that does happen and of course it is unfortunate, but as Spock use to say, and it really rings true with me, "The needs of the many out weight the needs of the few"[/QUOTE]

I wonder if you;d be so cavalier and dismisive of other peoples god dam lives if your loved one faced such a fate: Questionable Justice

But please do come to the above thread and defend the callousness of your argument.
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10 years ago  ::  May 04, 2008 - 6:10AM #5
Posts: 2,562
[QUOTE=richardt;475510]I'll come to this thread as often as I like, because you don't agree with my opinion is not a issue, as I disagree with yours.

What are you talking about? I said come to this thread and left a link … hp?t=17480 because on that thread is proof of MOJ and DP cases, some cases of which the MOJ victim is on the last roll of the dice to see if they live or not, the evidence is pitiful yet still the justice system refuses to acknowledge it.

I wonder if you'd be so cavalier if someone you loved was tortured and murdered and the guilty laughed and sneered about it in the court room.

That is what jail is for and no i've not been cavalier about anyones life; you on the other hand have with regularity dismissed the lives of MOJ cases as "casualities of war" "colateral damage" and "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few".

That an innocent person was executed in order for vermin like this to face the DP is a small price to pay for justice.

No it is a large price to pay for an unnessecary unjust punishment. Please just stop and think for one moment about how you'd feel if it were your loved one we spoke of, your family or close friend. Maybe you'd still support the DP but i gurentee you, you would not be so dismisive of the cost of MOJ cases especially as they relate to the DP on the MOJ victim and their families.

Please don't come to this  thread with your bleeding heart argument for not putting to death those who do unspeakable evil.[/QUOTE]

Well there is this thread … hp?t=17480 which so far all the pro DPers have avoided like the plague, presumably because they have no arguments left to defend the undefendable.

And i repeat, if you or your loved ones found yourselves victim to MOJ (miscarriages of justice) then those you derisivly call "bleeding hearts" will be the ones you need to turn to.

So how about it then come onto the following thread (link … hp?t=17480 ) and actually argue in favour of casualties of war, collateral damage, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few and so on.

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10 years ago  ::  May 07, 2008 - 10:11AM #6
Posts: 2,562
[QUOTE=richardt;483551]Finally, those who favor of removing from society those who have no concern for human life have won their battle, William Earl Lynd was executed in Georgia after the supreme court put on hold all executions for 7 months on the grounds that lethal injection was inhumane. I guess they decided it was not. Lynd shot his girlfriend three times in the face after an argument, then put her i the trunk. Hr confessed that he could hear the poor woman moving in agony so pulled over and shot her again before burying her in a shallow grave. Later when he was broken down on the side of the road, another women stopped to help him, he shot and killed her also. Thankfully this should open the doors for all those executions that have been on hold for 7 months. I'm still not crazy about the expense and think my Island idea would be much cheaper.[/QUOTE]

Yes i know what Georgia have done, in the face of mountainous opposition by morla leaders; and everyone who botheres to keep uptodate with DP issues knew a while ago that lethal injectiosn had been re-instated in the states in the US where DP is still practiced.

So how about you stop ignoring THIS THREAD and actualy read about those casualties of war you dismiss so readily who only face renewed threat to their life now the temporary moratorium on the DP is lifted and officials have stated a desire to rush through executions which have been delayed .... have the guts to face those who you willfully reference to as casualties of war and colatteral damage, that their deaths are a small price to pay ...

*pfft* vengence is not a good enough reason to kill innocent people.
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10 years ago  ::  May 10, 2008 - 6:47AM #7
Posts: 2,562
[QUOTE=richardt;485156]revenge is not a good reason to kill anyone, but removing from society those who kill is a sure way to see they will never kill again. Life in prison always carries the possibility of escape, or a reduction in sentence.

We shouldn't go to war because innocents might be killed? Just yesterday there was talk about a pandemic and there not being enough vaccine for all. The mentally ill, the elderly, those sick with terminal illness, all would be sacrificed to stretch the vaccine. "The need of the many outweigh the needs of the few" Those who murder are to be considered as a virus to society, the enemy of all decent people, so if there are sacrifices, or casualties of war, and an innocent person is executed although regrettable, it is essential that the war continue. Why did thousands of innocent people have to die a horrible death when we bombed Hiroshima. So that hundreds of thousands of lives could be saved had the war continued

I won't discuss hiroshima and negasaki save to point out yet again that Japan was already surrendering and had initiated a ceasefire when the order to bomb was given ... instead of saving lives it cost lives. Which actualy is rather a good anology with the way the DP is carried out by the countries incl the US who retain it ... as is evidenced by the Debra Milke case. (see Questionable Justice Thread)

This whole "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" is just BS frankly, if someone is so enamoured of that little rationality for evil it is worth pointing out that if the only solutions considered are those looking out for some and not as many as possible (including the 'few') then the only solutions seen as viable will be those excluding the 'few' from consideration, whereas any effort that tries to save the 'few' as well is not only more just and humane it is more likely to come across solutions that at least minimise the suffering of more people including the 'few'.

MOJ victims are not calsualties of war, for one thing they have less rights and respect even when found innocent than casualties of war, for another the DP is a choice not a necessity, the majority of civilised countries do not have the DP and managed perfectly well without it. (

No one wants to see an innocent person executed, but we don't stop the war because a mistake might be made. the answer is to see that everything is done to insure it doesn't happen.[/QUOTE]

Part of that answer is showing some respect to MOJ victims and cease refering to them in such reprehensible terms as 'collateral damage' and 'casualties of war' and the worst to date 'necessary sacrifices' ... a little value for their lives would be nice ya know?

Why not come over to the Questionable Justice thread and face these "necessary sacrifices" see how in so many cases their convictions and probable deaths were not accidental but willful acts of misjustice ... learn just what it is you are so dismissive off.

Or why not tell tolerant sis that if her cousin had become a victim of the DP it would have been a necessary sacrifice ... god dam it man have some compassion and humanity.

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9 years ago  ::  May 29, 2009 - 4:43AM #8
Posts: 55

Where innocent people are put to death, it really hurts especially to the blood relatives. But as the karma theory says, justice is done if not in the present life, then may be the next.



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