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Switch to Forum Live View The Death Penalty is Right
6 years ago  ::  Nov 05, 2007 - 6:45PM #21
pIrish
Posts: 181
[QUOTE=PomegranateStaindGrn;46278]Innocent until proven guilty has entitled defense attorneys to place young women on the stands and call into question all areas of their own life just for the purpose of trying to set free someone who was positively identified by her as a predator. [/QUOTE]

And that's the exact mentality that accompanied lynchings in the past. Heck, that's the mentality that caused witch hunts and burnings at the stake. Just because someone points their finger and says that person is to blame doesn't necessarily make it true. They have to go through the trial to make sure the person isn't lying (which is very possible) and to make sure the person isn't just confused or misinformed. To convict someone, it has to be proven beyond any doubt. I'm sorry, but even if I was a prosecutor, I still wouldn't just take someone's "positive" identification for it. I've seen way too many instances in the past where it was decided the person was guilty before there was even a chance to prove their innocence because someone positively identified them "committing the crime" (Salem witch trials ring a bell?).
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6 years ago  ::  Nov 05, 2007 - 7:26PM #22
PomegranateStaindGrn
Posts: 601

pIrish wrote:

And that's the exact mentality that accompanied lynchings in the past. Heck, that's the mentality that caused witch hunts and burnings at the stake. Just because someone points their finger and says that person is to blame doesn't necessarily make it true. They have to go through the trial to make sure the person isn't lying (which is very possible) and to make sure the person isn't just confused or misinformed. To convict someone, it has to be proven beyond any doubt. I'm sorry, but even if I was a prosecutor, I still wouldn't just take someone's "positive" identification for it. I've seen way too many instances in the past where it was decided the person was guilty before there was even a chance to prove their innocence because someone positively identified them "committing the crime" (Salem witch trials ring a bell?).



Interesting that you're accusing me of lynch mob mentality - I said nothing about the man being put to death.  However, I do understand the anger about the situation.  I did say life in prison (since there was no irrefutable proof other than her testimony and while I don't doubt it, it's not enough to take a life) - if he is later proven innocent of the crime so be it.  But yes, when it comes to murder or rape if they are found guilty in a court of law they should serve life with no possibility of parole.  I'm not going to apologize for that mentality there is far too much behind it. 

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6 years ago  ::  Nov 05, 2007 - 8:11PM #23
bubbysmommy
Posts: 1,119
[QUOTE=SkyWalker53;42309]The above post is a good example of mob mentality. Certain members of the public jump on a "PUNISH HIM" band wagon without knowing the details of the case. If there was not a legal system in place..these folks would gather together with torches and lynch the guy. The death penalty is a revised form of mob mentality. Mob mentality is always dangerous and irrational.[/QUOTE]

Mob Mentality? This man kidnapped, raped, sodomized & shot this girl. She was a 17yr old child for God's sake! The man that did this was not simply convicted on her testimony alone, there was forensic evidence as well. So, tell me when he is paroled this month, we should send him to your neighborhood?
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6 years ago  ::  Nov 06, 2007 - 1:50AM #24
julrich
Posts: 60
bubby's mom,

your case is one that leads you to make unfounded judgments.  criminals don't run the justice system just because they are entitled to defense attorneys.  You are not wrong about the failure of the justice system to protect us by consistently keeping dangerous convicts from returning to the streets.  But you are wrong if you think this is the only failure in the justice system.  The human errors in the system also lead to mistakes in punishment.  Just favoring harsh penalties and the death sentence is not going to reform the system to prevent errors.  Everytime they convict the wrong person of murder in order to score points for the overzealous prosecutor, a killer goes free.  And just punishing people who commit violence against property or people is not going to make them less likely to commit violence again in the future. 

shalom
big julie
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6 years ago  ::  Nov 06, 2007 - 7:32AM #25
bubbysmommy
Posts: 1,119
[QUOTE=julrich;47741]bubby's mom,
Just favoring harsh penalties and the death sentence is not going to reform the system to prevent errors.  Everytime they convict the wrong person of murder in order to score points for the overzealous prosecutor, a killer goes free.  And just punishing people who commit violence against property or people is not going to make them less likely to commit violence again in the future. 

shalom
big julie[/QUOTE]

Just to be clear, I do not favor the death penalty in the case of Maggie Malloy.
I DO agree that when an innocent murderer is convicted, the real killer goes free.
Now, lets clear something else up. I do favor the DP. But, only in a select few cases when guilt is not in question. When my best friend & her 2yr old daughter were murdered, her ex-husband & the father of their children, was literally caught in the act of trying to kill another of their children. Not only did his 2 surviving children testify against him, the police officer that broke into the bathroom where he saw the man plunge the knife into his son's neck, also testified. Then there was his confession. One which he never recanted.
This man deserved to live? This did not warrant the death penalty? I am glad this monster is dead & cannot terrorize his 2 remaining children. They never have to worry about whether or not he will get out & come for them again.
This is the rare case in which I believe the death penalty should be applied. He never expressed remorse for his actions. There was never an apology. He should have been executed.
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6 years ago  ::  Nov 06, 2007 - 8:23AM #26
bubbysmommy
Posts: 1,119
While I do not believe that this case warrants the DP, I thought you would like to see what they are considering releasing after only 12yrs.
This is the man that kidnapped, raped & tried to murder an innocent young girl.
http://www.drc.state.oh.us/OffenderSearch/Details.aspx?id=A301950&pg=x
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6 years ago  ::  Nov 06, 2007 - 11:22AM #27
PomegranateStaindGrn
Posts: 601

pIrish wrote:

And that's the exact mentality that accompanied lynchings in the past. Heck, that's the mentality that caused witch hunts and burnings at the stake.(Salem witch trials ring a bell?).




You are so out of line with this comment it borders on ridiculous.  You are comparing apples and oranges and I suggest that you learn the history of the burning times (all of them) before you use this as your defense against the death penalty.
I tried to ignore it initially but it sickened me that you thought you'd found justification in your opposition of the death penalty through the burning times. 

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6 years ago  ::  Nov 06, 2007 - 12:45PM #28
pIrish
Posts: 181
[QUOTE=PomegranateStaindGrn;48365]You are so out of line with this comment it borders on ridiculous.  You are comparing apples and oranges and I suggest that you learn the history of the burning times (all of them) before you use this as your defense against the death penalty.
I tried to ignore it initially but it sickened me that you thought you'd found justification in your opposition of the death penalty through the burning times.  [/QUOTE]

My reply to you was in direct response to this statement made by you:

[QUOTE] Innocent until proven guilty has entitled defense attorneys to place young women on the stands and call into question all areas of their own life just for the purpose of trying to set free someone who was positively identified by her as a predator. That's hardly justice.[/QUOTE]

Like it or not, this is the exact same mentality that accompanied the witch trials and lynchings from the past. Somebody "positively identified" their predator, people believed them, and many innocent people died as a result of it. Don't get me wrong, while I'm sure you think those atrocities were deplorable, it is this same "guilty until proven innocent" attitude that caused those events to occur in the first place.

Just because someone points their finger doesn't automatically make it true. The whole purpose of the trial is to make sure there isn't anything questionable about the finger-pointing by bringing in, not only their own statement about what happened, but also outside evidence that could show whether or not the finger-pointer was truly telling the truth. The witch trials and lynchings played a huge part in why the victim who identifies their attacker must now be put on trial and be questioned.
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6 years ago  ::  Nov 06, 2007 - 1:51PM #29
PomegranateStaindGrn
Posts: 601
You are comparing murderers to women who were killed because they floated in water (one of the tests for witches), taught women how to prevent unwanted pregnancy, helped women cut their pain while giving birth, and believed outside of what was THE "acceptable" religion during those times.  Not the same. 
And I said nothing about the death penalty in that case - I said life in prison without the possibility of parole.  You might want to re-read what I've said about the DP - I support it but only if there is irrefutable proof (like video).  That might be the minority of cases which is fine.  I don't support it as an act of revenge - though some might.  My goal is not for more murder - it's for less. 
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6 years ago  ::  Nov 06, 2007 - 5:17PM #30
ibrian
Posts: 8
Once that person has taken a life of another He, or she , has forfieted their right to life. Has nothing to do with hate, but rather the right of society to protect itself from someone capable of killing, if you feel that this person should have a second chance let him, or her live with you and your family, and take full responsility for their actions. if your going to say i do it.
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