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Switch to Forum Live View The Death Penalty is Right
6 years ago  ::  Nov 01, 2007 - 5:30PM #11
MarleneEmmett5
Posts: 1,694
BeliefnetCheryl:
When it comes to the question of the Death Penalty, what I would like to see happen is the following:
I would perfer that prisoners who are sentenced to a *Death Sentence instead of a Lethal Injection being
administered and ending a person's life~I would rather all prisoners get a sentence of Life on Death Row
without perole. Let criminals die in prison.
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6 years ago  ::  Nov 01, 2007 - 7:01PM #12
d_p_m
Posts: 9,027
There are several major problems with the death penalty.

1. It is increasingly difficult to convict in a case where capital punishment is an option. Insisting on the death penalty as an option may allow criminals to go free.

2. The cost and duration of capital cases is enormous, diverting societal resources from more productive uses.

3. The death penalty does not deter crime. Very often, regions which rescind capital punishment see a reduction in what were formally capital crimes. Perhaps, and this is a personal speculation, the kind of person who does such a thing finds it easier to imagine many, many years in jail than being dead.

4. We know that even in a well administered, well designed justice system, at least 15% of convicted murderers are later (often much later) exonerated. They didn't do it. If you do not have capital punishment, at least you can let them out and apologize. If, however, they are executed, it is unlikely that anyone will ever find out that the wrong person was convicted, and the real criminal is still out there.
PHARAOH IRY-HOR, FROM THE 3100s BC, IS THE FIRST HUMAN WHOSE NAME WE KNOW.

-- cool facts from xkcd


"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality."

-- Albert Einstein
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6 years ago  ::  Nov 02, 2007 - 12:49AM #13
ArtistSpirit
Posts: 46
what if you know for a fact the person is guilty??? why the hell do people try and get real guilty people set free??? This is wrong!!!! There are people out there who put their noses into other people's family mess and try to get real murderes out when they are so ignorant of the truth.....I am not saying I am for the death penalty but murders NEED TO STAY IN PRISON!!

some one in my family was murdered by a man who not only murdered his wife but he also did unspeakable things to 2 young girls and an anti death penalty person trying to get this evil man set free!! So many people in my family have been hurt for so long by this prolonging of this man's life.
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6 years ago  ::  Nov 02, 2007 - 1:24AM #14
PomegranateStaindGrn
Posts: 601
The issue is not black and white and there cannot be a decision made that is black and white. There are factors to consider and are heavily ignored regarding the death penalty.

First and foremost, in the US there are no mandatory sentences for ANY crime. Rapists could do 1 year or they could do life in prison. On the other hand someone convicted of marijuana possession could do 2 months or 15 years. Not to mention murder. It's a crap shoot and I believe that some are willing to take their chances that they might get a minimum sentence if they are caught at all. There needs to be a mandatory sentence for VIOLENT crimes - stop putting non-violent criminals in prisons with violent criminals and stop putting non-violent criminals in for ridiculous things for such extended periods of time. The justice system needs a revamping of major proportions - this will never be handled until that happens.   And that doesn't even begin to touch on California's "3 strikes and your out" [pseudo] law that well intentioned citizens supported thinking it had to do with violent crimes but it turns out that people are getting 25 years in prison for bouncing checks! 

I support the death penalty under certain circumstances but it had better be a locked up case - no holes whatsoever. Other than those cases - life in prison for those who commit heinous violent crimes (ie - rape or murder) that cannot be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. I do believe that those who take someone's life have already stated to society that they are not willing to live amongst us - this isn't biblical, it's logic. And being an earth lover, I also have to wonder if they are worth the drain on the planet. Many have been released and commit the same crime within weeks or months of release - institutionalized maybe, but it could be that they are going to continue that path whether the institution got to them or not - in any case they aren't going to be rehabilitated (IMO) once they've taken to some of the disgusting crimes that some of them have taken to.

Charles Manson is still alive and being given air time every few years when news gets slow. He's been in prison for 37(approx.?) years now at the tax payers expense with copious evidence against him but tax payers are paying $40K+ per year to keep him alive. He's only one case.

For those against the death penalty - what is your opinion of Jeffrey Dahmer being murdered by the inmates? Talk about heinous.... him, not them. Or the killer of Polly Klass who had been out of prison for a matter of weeks before he committed unspeakable crimes against her.
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6 years ago  ::  Nov 02, 2007 - 2:39PM #15
julrich
Posts: 60
"in the US there are no mandatory sentences for ANY crime."

There are mandatory life sentences but the supreme court finds that the 8th amendment's ban on unusual punisment requires cases to be subjected to review.  there has to be a balance in legal justice.

"Rapists could do 1 year or they could do life in prison. On the other hand someone convicted of marijuana possession could do 2 months or 15 years."

Yes, this is so wrong, but then the death penalty is like being struck by lightning.  How can you favor death when it's disproportionate and unjust.

"Not to mention murder. It's a crap shoot and I believe that some are willing to take their chances that they might get a minimum sentence if they are caught at all."

perhaps for some, but most murders happen in a rage that precludes calculating the relative risks of sentencing.

"There needs to be a mandatory sentence for VIOLENT crimes"

like everything, violence comes in degrees.  Should we eliminate the judge's discretion entirely?

"stop putting non-violent criminals in prisons with violent criminals"

Maximum, medium and minimum security facilities do segregate along such lines, so what would you change?

"stop putting non-violent criminals in for ridiculous things for such extended periods of time."

Amen to that!

"I support the death penalty under certain circumstances but it had better be a locked up case - no holes whatsoever."

do you support it because you know that the system could be perfected, or are you ok with killing an occasional innocent?  If the latter, what's the acceptable threshold of wrongful execution, and how will reforms make us know that we have achieved that limit?  Expert estimates of wrongful conviction I've seen already vary between 4% and 20%  How much certainty do you think we could achieve in our chaotic federal system?

"life in prison for those who commit heinous violent crimes (ie - rape or murder) that cannot be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt."

I thought our system was supposed to prohibit convictions when there's reasonable doubt.  Isn't that what unanimous jury verdicts are for?  If there's one reasonable person who questions it, then the jury doesn't convict, no?

"Many have been released and commit the same crime within weeks or months of release"

Many as in repeated anecdotes in the press or as in a significant proportion of parolees?

"they are going to continue that path whether the institution got to them or not - in any case they aren't going to be rehabilitated (IMO) once they've taken to some of the disgusting crimes that some of them have taken to."

nonviolent criminals have the highest rates of recidivism.

"He's only one case."

one case among what?  what does his example represent?

"For those against the death penalty - what is your opinion of Jeffrey Dahmer being murdered by the inmates?"

What's the point of an opinion if you don't know facts?  Maybe he was set up by officers to get killed.  Maybe there was lousy security in the prison.  Violence in prison makes me question the administration of the prison, not the laws.
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6 years ago  ::  Nov 02, 2007 - 4:30PM #16
PomegranateStaindGrn
Posts: 601
julrich,

I'm sorry, I wanted to use the quote function, but it isn't cooperating w/me this afternoon. 

There are NOT mandatory sentences for any crime in the US.  By mandatory I mean that you would be guaranteed to spend X amount of time in prison for XYZ crime(s) no matter whether it is first offense, the age of the victim, the gender of the victim, etc.  That does NOT happen here.

"Disproportionate and unjust" is an opinion - not a fact. 

Rage - I don't doubt that most murders are in the heat of passion, however, if people knew they were guaranteed a mandatory sentence and EVERYONE was dealt the same sentence (so they wouldn't have to wonder) that would be a foreknowledge to which a murderer could not plead ignorance to. 

When I said that I support it, I meant that the case would have to be tight - and by that I mean VIDEO or actual visual proof of the crime, not hearsay, not circumstantial evidence.  Unlike murderers, I do NOT approve of the idea of taking a life lightly.  But once the decision has been made and can be proven with NO doubt, yes, I support the death penalty.

To me, beyond a shadow of a doubt is an unfair association unless there is video.  It leaves too much to the minds and opinions of the jury and it's been shown that juries don't always make the right decisions.

No, maximum, medium, and minimum security do not divide inmates up according to the violence of their crimes.  It sounds like they do or would, but they do not.

When it is children being raped and/or murdered, women being torn limb from limb, do you really think I care at all whether it is "many" according to the media or real numbers?  It's TOO many when we side with the predator and ignore victims.  And I am talking about violent criminals here. 

"nonviolent criminals have the highest rates of recidivism. "

So what?  I'm not talking about non-violent criminals.  I couldn't care less about that.  It's ridiculous to incarcerate them especially in the way it's being done right now.

His case represents guilty men and/or women serving life in prison costing millions of dollars and they will never walk the streets again - unless of course they escape. 

An opinion doesn't necessarily have to do with facts - it is an opinion or a reaction to learning he was killed by inmates.  Yes, it could have been set up by guards.  It wouldn't be the first time.  Or it could be another case of inmate "justice".  The inmates take the law into their own hands.  So again I ask - what is your opinion of it?




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6 years ago  ::  Nov 03, 2007 - 12:11AM #17
bubbysmommy
Posts: 1,119
In January 1995 a high school junior was running a cross country meet in Galion Ohio. A man named Charles Vaughan grabbed her off of the course, brutally raped & sodomized her, then shot her. Her left her lying in a field thinking that she was dead.
This little girl is Maggie Malloy. She did not die. This awesome young lady, managed not only to survive, but confronted her attacker in court. There was not only overwhelming physical evidence, she had seen & smelled her attacker that day.
This man was found guilty & sentenced to 15-100yrs. Talk about a joke. He is up for parole this month. Now, had Maggie died, he would have been eligible for the death penalty. But, because she survived, he may be released back into our community? There is no justice in our judicial system. None. Criminals run it with their expensive lawyers & their whining about rights. When a criminal has more rights than the child that they raped & tried to murder, we have a serious problem with our judicial system. A man in our county was just sentenced to his13th DUI! What the hell is going on?
Our judicial system should NEVER have been about rehabilitation. It should have always been about punishment. That is what prison is, it is suppose to be punishment for a crime. Yet, those inmates live better than some of our law abiding citizens do! How many senior citizens have to choose between food & prescription costs? Even with the new drug plan co- pays are really high for some. Some meds are not even covered. Yet if an inmate needs the same drug, he gets breakfast, lunch, dinner & that very drug our seniors cannot afford. Shameful is what this is. Shameful!
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6 years ago  ::  Nov 03, 2007 - 11:01AM #18
SkyWalker53
Posts: 2,235
The above post is a good example of mob mentality. Certain members of the public jump on a "PUNISH HIM" band wagon without knowing the details of the case. If there was not a legal system in place..these folks would gather together with torches and lynch the guy. The death penalty is a revised form of mob mentality. Mob mentality is always dangerous and irrational.
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6 years ago  ::  Nov 05, 2007 - 2:58PM #19
PomegranateStaindGrn
Posts: 601

SkyWalker53 wrote:

The above post is a good example of mob mentality. Certain members of the public jump on a "PUNISH HIM" band wagon without knowing the details of the case. If there was not a legal system in place..these folks would gather together with torches and lynch the guy. The death penalty is a revised form of mob mentality. Mob mentality is always dangerous and irrational.




I understand the anger of bubbysmommy. The man in question RAPED and SHOT the girl and then left her for DEAD - this is grounds for anger. We have transformed our judicial system from one that did penalize criminals into one that again victimizes those who have already been victimized. Innocent until proven guilty has entitled defense attorneys to place young women on the stands and call into question all areas of their own life just for the purpose of trying to set free someone who was positively identified by her as a predator. That's hardly justice. As a woman, sister, daughter, mother of a girl, I'm happy to have a rapist behind bars for life - not until some committee decides to release him on "good behavior" - it was hardly "good behavior" that got him into that place in the first place.
IMO rapists and murders should never be eligible for parole. If they are proven innocent (in the small percentage of cases that this actually happens) then yes, I support restitution and humility on the part of the judicial system.

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6 years ago  ::  Nov 05, 2007 - 2:58PM #20
PomegranateStaindGrn
Posts: 601

SkyWalker53 wrote:

The above post is a good example of mob mentality. Certain members of the public jump on a "PUNISH HIM" band wagon without knowing the details of the case. If there was not a legal system in place..these folks would gather together with torches and lynch the guy. The death penalty is a revised form of mob mentality. Mob mentality is always dangerous and irrational.




I understand the anger of bubbysmommy. The man in question RAPED and SHOT the girl and then left her for DEAD - this is grounds for anger. We have transformed our judicial system from one that did penalize criminals into one that again victimizes those who have already been victimized. Innocent until proven guilty has entitled defense attorneys to place young women on the stands and call into question all areas of their own life just for the purpose of trying to set free someone who was positively identified by her as a predator. That's hardly justice. As a woman, sister, daughter, mother of a girl, I'm happy to have a rapist behind bars for life - not until some committee decides to release him on "good behavior" - it was hardly "good behavior" that got him into that place in the first place.
IMO rapists and murders should never be eligible for parole. If they are proven innocent (in the small percentage of cases that this actually happens) then yes, I support restitution and humility on the part of the judicial system.

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