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Switch to Forum Live View No Christian Should Support the death penalty
6 years ago  ::  May 18, 2008 - 7:09AM #281
Doodlebug02
Posts: 55
[QUOTE=BeliefnetCheryl;339]Though this discussion began some time ago on the old board, I think it offers much to think about and discuss.


Sapphiren

   
To me, Christianity's two fundamental rules are these: love and forgiveness.

But the death penalty is a violation of forgiveness. Forgiveness is release; it is far better to forgive than to wallow in hate for the rest of your life. But how can a murderer be forgiven in life by the family of their victim(s) or be given a chance to repent if they are executed?

And to those who really don't or can't forgive, see it this way:
Keeping a murderer locked up in jail to fester and rot for the rest of their life is a far worse penalty than death.[/QUOTE]

I agree that no Christian should support the death penalty.  And yes, we should forgive murderers.  However, they still need to be locked up for at least some time.  They have to be punished for their crime.  We can't just let them get away with it.  They have to be taught that what they did is wrong so that they don't do it again.
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6 years ago  ::  May 18, 2008 - 3:47PM #282
lenats
Posts: 7
[QUOTE=becca97;495668]i'm presuming this is being sardonic, sarcastic and ironic ;)

Just in case it isn't ... anyone who wishes to explore Miscarriages of Justice cases and the DP try http://community.beliefnet.com/forums/s … hp?t=17480 :)

beccaxx[/QUOTE]
Thank you, Becca.  also you can read about the DP at www.nyadp.org
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6 years ago  ::  May 18, 2008 - 8:50PM #283
bubbysmommy
Posts: 1,119
[QUOTE=Doodlebug02;507383]I agree that no Christian should support the death penalty.  And yes, we should forgive murderers.  However, they still need to be locked up for at least some time.  They have to be punished for their crime.  We can't just let them get away with it.  They have to be taught that what they did is wrong so that they don't do it again.[/QUOTE]

[COLOR="DarkSlateBlue"]Locked up for at least some time? Are you serious? If you are not going to execute those that are truly guilty, then you should darned sure lock them up for the REMAINDER of their life so that they NEVER have the chance to kill another innocent person![/COLOR]
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6 years ago  ::  May 19, 2008 - 8:39AM #284
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,782
[QUOTE=bubbysmommy;508629][COLOR="DarkSlateBlue"]Locked up for at least some time? Are you serious? If you are not going to execute those that are truly guilty, then you should darned sure lock them up for the REMAINDER of their life so that they NEVER have the chance to kill another innocent person![/COLOR][/QUOTE]

It really depends on the case and the circumstances. I worked for many years as a newspaper reporter, and covered several murder cases and the resulting trials. Each one was as different from the others as the people involved. Some of the convicted people clearly were a random threat. Others had killed a specific person for specific reasons... that's a bit more of a fuzzy area, IMO.

I favor the death penalty in some cases, BTW.
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6 years ago  ::  May 20, 2008 - 1:38PM #285
bubbysmommy
Posts: 1,119
[QUOTE=mytmouse57;509336]It really depends on the case and the circumstances. I worked for many years as a newspaper reporter, and covered several murder cases and the resulting trials. Each one was as different from the others as the people involved. Some of the convicted people clearly were a random threat. Others had killed a specific person for specific reasons... that's a bit more of a fuzzy area, IMO.

I favor the death penalty in some cases, BTW.[/QUOTE]

[COLOR="DarkGreen"]While I respect you views here, I absolutely cannot see allowing a murderer to ever see the light of day again. When you speak of those that had clear intent when they killed someone, unless it was self defense, it was still pre-meditated murder. Which in my opinion makes them a threat to the rest of us. When a person can clearly plan the murder of innocent person, they are clearly a threat.  [/COLOR]
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6 years ago  ::  May 21, 2008 - 2:57PM #286
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,782
[QUOTE=bubbysmommy;512245][COLOR="DarkGreen"]While I respect you views here, I absolutely cannot see allowing a murderer to ever see the light of day again. When you speak of those that had clear intent when they killed someone, unless it was self defense, it was still pre-meditated murder. Which in my opinion makes them a threat to the rest of us. When a person can clearly plan the murder of innocent person, they are clearly a threat.  [/COLOR][/QUOTE]

"Innocent person" can be a relative term.

Some of the cases I covered involved killings linked to gang violence or drug deals gone bad. For example, in one case, a guy emptied most of the clip of an SKS rifle into another guy, because the other guy had screwed him out of tens of thousands of dollars in drug money.

Not only did I cover the case. But years later I ended up working -- at a completely unrelated job -- with a man who had been rather close to the killer. Anyway, based on what I know, unless you happen to steal tens of thousands of bucks from that guy, he's probably not really a threat to anybody.

Plus, it reminds me of a line from the movie "No Country For Old Men." When talking about the shooting deaths of some guys involved in a case of missing drug money, the sheriff (Tommy Lee Jones) soberly comments that "They died of natural causes."
"Natural causes?" another character asks.
"Yeah," Jones' character says. "Natural to the line of work they were in."

Anyway, the point is, again, every muder has aspects as unique as the people involved.
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6 years ago  ::  May 21, 2008 - 9:38PM #287
bubbysmommy
Posts: 1,119
[COLOR="Teal"]And yet, in the end an innocent life has been taken & the person responsible should pay dearly for that. If nothing else, they should NEVER be allowed out of prison. When we start allowing murderers to serve lighter sentences, we will be sending a message that murder is ok. That is sits on the same level as drug crimes & robbery. There simply MUST be a distinction made as to the seriousness of the crime. Murder is about as bad as it gets. It should warrant the toughest sentences. [/COLOR]
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6 years ago  ::  May 22, 2008 - 2:39PM #288
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,782
[QUOTE=bubbysmommy;515751][COLOR="Teal"]And yet, in the end an innocent life has been taken & the person responsible should pay dearly for that. If nothing else, they should NEVER be allowed out of prison. When we start allowing murderers to serve lighter sentences, we will be sending a message that murder is ok. That is sits on the same level as drug crimes & robbery. There simply MUST be a distinction made as to the seriousness of the crime. Murder is about as bad as it gets. It should warrant the toughest sentences. [/COLOR][/QUOTE]

Again, "innocent" is a relative term. Past a certian age NOBODY is completely innocent. And in some cases, the victim does contribute to thier own death, IMO. Like the victim who stole the drug money I just cited. Or another case I covered, a couple who were in a state of what I would call "domestic warfare." The wife ended up killing the husband. But according to the testimony I heard at the trial, the state of the marriage was so violent, it could have just as easily ended up being him who killed her. Long story short, they were fine while sober.. but they had a bad habit of getting drunk, getting into fights and beating the crap out of each other.

Anyhow, I don't think in either of those cases you could really argue that the victim was "innocent" .. at least not in the same sense as somebody who gets blown away during a bank robbery just because they were there,  or somebody who was targeted by a serial killer.

I'm all for tough, appropirate senteces. Any way you slice it, 20 or 30 years is a really long damn time. In some cases, I think that's more than punishment enough for murder. In others, nothing short of life is just. And in still others, the death penalty.

I've seen cases that fit into all three of those categories.

It depeds on circumstances and the people involved.
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6 years ago  ::  May 22, 2008 - 2:58PM #289
bubbysmommy
Posts: 1,119
[COLOR="DarkSlateBlue"]Put that way, I can certainly see your point. BTW, this is exactly why I feel that the DP should be reserved for those that kill an innocent & then only if their guilt can be totally proven, without ANY shred of doubt. After all, it is taking a life. We need to make darned sure that the right person ends up with a needle in their arm. Otherwise there will be two tragedies. One would be the taking of another innocent life, the other would be that the real killer is still running around free.
You must have seen some horrific things in your line of work. I know without a doubt that I could never do that. I threw up just hearing about what happened to my best friend &  her little girl. I still get sick to my stomach when I think about it. kudos to you  for doing a job that few could do. [/COLOR]
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6 years ago  ::  May 23, 2008 - 10:32AM #290
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,782
[QUOTE=bubbysmommy;517213][COLOR="DarkSlateBlue"]Put that way, I can certainly see your point. BTW, this is exactly why I feel that the DP should be reserved for those that kill an innocent & then only if their guilt can be totally proven, without ANY shred of doubt. After all, it is taking a life. We need to make darned sure that the right person ends up with a needle in their arm. Otherwise there will be two tragedies. One would be the taking of another innocent life, the other would be that the real killer is still running around free.
You must have seen some horrific things in your line of work. I know without a doubt that I could never do that. I threw up just hearing about what happened to my best friend &  her little girl. I still get sick to my stomach when I think about it. kudos to you  for doing a job that few could do. [/COLOR][/QUOTE]

Thanks. I haven't done it for a while, I've opted for a far less stressful line of work for a while. Althought I'm trying to work my way back into the news business on a freelance basis.  Ha... crazy me, I guess.

In all truth, it wasn't the murder cases that really got to me. I was fairly good at just objectifying the situation most of the time. The child abuse cases were the ones that got to me. More than once, I had to just get up from my desk and leave for a while when trying to write some of those stories.
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