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Switch to Forum Live View No Christian Should Support the death penalty
7 years ago  ::  Apr 27, 2008 - 4:54PM #271
becca97
Posts: 2,562
[QUOTE=bubbysmommy;460313][COLOR="Purple"][FONT="Book Antiqua"]Becca, Thank you. We did what we thought was the best thing for him. As it turns out, I think that we were right.

As for labels. I personally have no problem with the term "survivor" That is what our son is. He came through something God awful & refused to let it rule his life. He took control & isn't that what survivors do? If he had just laid down & let this rule his life, he may not be here right now. There are a huge number of children that are assaulted like this that go on to take their own lives. He did not. He chose to truly live. That is what survivors do. They do not merely exist, they live. As for Victim. I think that there is a short period of time when it is OK to have that "victim" mentality, but there comes a time when we need to get past it & LIVE. I hope that this makes sense.  [/FONT]
[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

Makes perfect sense jodi, i agree i tend to use the term survivor or healed survivor because i am now living life rather than allowing what occured to rule my life.

But it is a process like anything else in life and some people are able to go through the whole process and be healed and others only get so far.

Its a crying shame anyone has to but thats life: speaking for myself although i'm not exstatic it occured i think i'm a better person for it.
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7 years ago  ::  Apr 27, 2008 - 4:57PM #272
becca97
Posts: 2,562
[QUOTE=John_T_Mainer;460502]The term survivor is insulting only to the dead.  By definition, if you are alive, you have survived and are thus a survivor.

The term victim is emotionally loaded, and can have some serious effects when self-labling.

If you wish to tell me you are not a survivor, then show me your death certificate, but if you post that, you will have proven you are living, and thus a survivor.

Choose to be insulted if you wish.  I further insult you by calling you ALIVE.  Object to that one too, and I shall chuckle, for your every denial shouts the truth of it.[/QUOTE]

This works kinda well as an analogy in many ways, to me at least, for the process of recovery.

For a while it is as if one is dead, just going through the motions of life not really living with spunk and verve, then theres a resusitation(sp?) of sorts and eventually life surges again and one is healed and living with spunk and verve.

dead then resusitated then a healed survivor ... thats my take on my experiences anyhoo.
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7 years ago  ::  Apr 27, 2008 - 8:13PM #273
bubbysmommy
Posts: 1,119
[QUOTE=becca97;460601]Makes perfect sense jodi, i agree i tend to use the term survivor or healed survivor because i am now living life rather than allowing what occured to rule my life.

But it is a process like anything else in life and some people are able to go through the whole process and be healed and others only get so far.

Its a crying shame anyone has to but thats life: speaking for myself although i'm not exstatic it occured i think i'm a better person for it.[/QUOTE]

[COLOR="DarkSlateBlue"]I agree here too. I hate what has happened to our son, but he is the compassionate child that he is today because of it. Would I go back & prevent it from happening if I could? In a heartbeat! However, we cannot live in the past & what we do with our lives is more important that what happened in our lives. I admire you to Becca. You have also come through a horrific ordeal & come out the other end the caring, compassionate soul that you are today.
Jodi
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7 years ago  ::  Apr 30, 2008 - 10:28PM #274
lfschrawyer
Posts: 33
[QUOTE=John_T_Mainer;460093]My sister spent years leading Sara Teen groups, for survivors of sexual abuse.  As a child who was sexually abused, she knew how devastating it was.  She and I argued for years about her definition of herself as a Victim of abuse.  Defining yourself as a victim is giving yourself an excuse to fail, an excuse not to try, to forever tell yourself that you cannot ever be more than a victim.  You are thus ceeding eternal victory to your abuser, as you acknowledge yourself vanquished.

In her adulthood, she adopted my view, she called herself a survivor.  As much a veteran as any soldier, she accepted the cost and chose to move forward.  As an adult she finished her highschool, and went on to my alma mater to earn her BA in Psychology.  She has chosen to define herself by her deeds, by her victories, her acomplishments.  She is the victor, her abuser simply a foeman overcome by her defiant will to claim her own life and greatness.[/QUOTE]


I am against the death penalty, however on this particular topic I agree with you. The results of rape has been equated with post traumatic stress disorder, which happens to many military people. I also was a victim of child deflowering. I am familiar with the victim as well as the survivor roles which are attached to the person who has been raped. I believe there are differences in being a victim and becoming a survivor, for it is definitely a process each person goes through at their own pace.

To me remaining a victim was not an option I wanted to plan my life around, it is emotionally draining, time consuming, and got me absolutely nowhere. It kept me rooted in the pain, blinding me to solutions that were available to me, like becoming a survivor which put me back in charge of my life. The victim role can become a dangerous road to woe because it leaves one vulnerable to other predators looking for a victim to control. Make no mistake rape is more about power and control, than it about the sexual overtones a predator inflicts on their victim (s). I consider myself to be a mentally strong woman who can (and did) find healing, acceptance of self, as well as inner peace by confronting my fears which gave me back all my personal power. No one was prosecuted in my case that I am aware of. It happened when I was five I'm really not sure anyone believed me when I told what had happened. By the age of 9, I was ready to talk about even it if no one was listening, I needed to vent my feelings and frustration regarding what had happened to me.

Yes there were emotional scars, however by the grace of God and Prayer, as well as blind determination I sought out ways to heal my battered soul, body, and emotions. I don't think too much about that part of my life anymore unless the subject comes up. One strange thing came from all of this, I found myself able to recognize sex predators very easily, and I could tell they knew I knew who they were and what they were about. Maybe because of all the counseling courses I took to in college when I training to become a counselor. People like that don't hang around me too long, exposure threatens them to their core. I also had a situation when my daughter was five, we were at an A.A. function (dinner, fellowship, and dance), my ex is a recovering alcoholic so we attended these types of functions quite a bit. Anyway I was taking to someone and out of the corner of my eye I saw a man walking with my daughter her hand in his. I approached him, told him my daughter did not know him, I did not know him, and asked him what he thought he was doing. He said he was taking my daughter to meet his girlfriend, and when our eyes meant I knew, he knew I knew and before I could blink he was losing himself in the crowd. Needless to say I called security, they could not find the man or his girlfriend, however later that week there was a story on news about a husband and wife team trying to get other peoples children to go with them at all types of different functions even churches.

That is how slick sexual predators are, my daughter was playing with other children, and he managed to get her attention and talk her into walking across the room with under the guise of meeting his girlfriend. That scared me, from then on I kept my daughter in my sight when we attended functions I thought we were safe at, or I took my 16 year old niece with me to help supervise my daughter. I taught my daughter to not talk to people she or I did not know, and if she wasn't sure to ask me first, because predators have been known to act as if they know and are friends with the child's parents. Once again by the grace of God, my survival skills kicked in, and helped me to be more alert in the face of adversity. Healing is a process, however I believe we cannot allow the bad things that happens to us destroy the rest of our lives. Hope is a mainstay, hope, prayer, and faith helps me to know there are just as many good people out there in our as there are bad people. Enough said, just wanted to put in my 2 cents on the topic.
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7 years ago  ::  Apr 30, 2008 - 10:46PM #275
lfschrawyer
Posts: 33
[QUOTE=bubbysmommy;460026][COLOR="DarkSlateBlue"]I may be in favor of the DP in some cases, but I must disagree with you here. I am going to share something with you. The only reason that I am telling you this is because I need you to see that you are wrong.

I began a group called "Survivors of Abuse" because our 12yr old was brutally raped when he was only 5yrs old. While he does still have some physical reminders of that attack, we told him at the time that while what happened was horrific, he COULD NOT allow that one moment in his life to define who was or who he would become. Yes, rape is nasty, even unforgivable by some. You cannot say that it ruins the victim's life. Our son is the catcher on his baseball team, swims for his swim team, is a Bot Scout working hard at earning his Eagle rank & is a decent student that carries a 3.5GPA. He goes to church & just participated in his 1st Communion. Life does go on & it becomes what we choose to make of it. He is  a great kid (not a bit of pride here LOL!) that did exactly what we told him. He did not allow that one horrific moment to define who he is becoming as a human.
There are crimes where the victim truly never gets their life back. Rape just isn't one of them.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

Now here is a subject we have common ground on, I agree with your stance on this subject, we cannot denie ourselves the abolity to heal. Some people handle recovery from being a rape vitim to becoming a rape survivor differently, Thinking about as a process helps us to know there is help to found, and solutions that can and do work. Can't was a coward who wouldn't try is what I tell myself when I don't want to walk through my pain to the freedom on the other side. I am sorry to hear about your son, it sounds like he has successfully walked through the healing process. I know you are proud of him and his accomplishments regarding the rape as well as taking charge of his life back from someone (the rapist) who did not deserve to have any power regarding your son. It is extremely difficult when something like the crime of rape touches your own blood. I like the way your worded your response, with empathy and compassion for anothers painful memories. To me it is all about remaining teachable, the moment I begin to think there is nothing left  for me to learn will more likely than not be my last day on this earth, so to speak. Enough said, just wanted to share my thoughts on the topic.
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6 years ago  ::  May 07, 2008 - 10:58AM #276
bscott1966
Posts: 1
[QUOTE=BeliefnetCheryl;339]Though this discussion began some time ago on the old board, I think it offers much to think about and discuss.


Sapphiren

   
To me, Christianity's two fundamental rules are these: love and forgiveness.

But the death penalty is a violation of forgiveness. Forgiveness is release; it is far better to forgive than to wallow in hate for the rest of your life. But how can a murderer be forgiven in life by the family of their victim(s) or be given a chance to repent if they are executed?

And to those who really don't or can't forgive, see it this way:
Keeping a murderer locked up in jail to fester and rot for the rest of their life is a far worse penalty than death.[/QUOTE]
if keeping a murderer locked up in jail to fester and rot away for the rest of their life is a far worse penalty than death as you claim...why then do death row inmates go through the appeal process for years....if locked up to fester and rot away is worse than death as you claim why would they choose to stay alive....i think its because being put to death for your crime is probably worse in their eyes then being able to live out your life
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6 years ago  ::  May 08, 2008 - 12:38PM #277
RiverMoonlady
Posts: 773
[QUOTE=bscott1966;483705]if keeping a murderer locked up in jail to fester and rot away for the rest of their life is a far worse penalty than death as you claim...why then do death row inmates go through the appeal process for years....if locked up to fester and rot away is worse than death as you claim why would they choose to stay alive....i think its because being put to death for your crime is probably worse in their eyes then being able to live out your life[/QUOTE]

They do it because they have nothing else to do.  Prison leaves you with a LOT of time on your hands.
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6 years ago  ::  May 10, 2008 - 7:05AM #278
becca97
Posts: 2,562
[QUOTE=RiverMoonlady;486515]They do it because they have nothing else to do.  Prison leaves you with a LOT of time on your hands.[/QUOTE]


People appeal for a variety of reasons, most because they'd rather do life than loose their physical life, far too many because they are innocent of the crime for which they have been convicted ... to name but two. Maybe for some filling the time is a part of their choice to appeal although if you actualy listen to convicts it is hardly the deciding factor.

You are correct to say prisoners have alot of time to fill, this is why in many prisons they have access to books, video gaming, movies, education and in some non life sentance or DP sentance cases work training and so on.
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6 years ago  ::  May 13, 2008 - 1:12AM #279
wannabe34angel
Posts: 31
Only if you live in the white house are you innocent.............
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6 years ago  ::  May 13, 2008 - 5:26AM #280
becca97
Posts: 2,562
[QUOTE=wannabe34angel;495466]Only if you live in the white house are you innocent.............[/QUOTE]


i'm presuming this is being sardonic, sarcastic and ironic ;)

Just in case it isn't ... anyone who wishes to explore Miscarriages of Justice cases and the DP try http://community.beliefnet.com/forums/s … hp?t=17480 :)

beccaxx
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