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Switch to Forum Live View No Christian Should Support the death penalty
7 years ago  ::  Oct 12, 2007 - 12:10PM #1
BeliefnetCheryl
Posts: 341
Though this discussion began some time ago on the old board, I think it offers much to think about and discuss.


Sapphiren

   
To me, Christianity's two fundamental rules are these: love and forgiveness.

But the death penalty is a violation of forgiveness. Forgiveness is release; it is far better to forgive than to wallow in hate for the rest of your life. But how can a murderer be forgiven in life by the family of their victim(s) or be given a chance to repent if they are executed?

And to those who really don't or can't forgive, see it this way:
Keeping a murderer locked up in jail to fester and rot for the rest of their life is a far worse penalty than death.
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7 years ago  ::  Oct 17, 2007 - 1:33PM #2
bubbysmommy
Posts: 1,119
I have said this before. The DP is not about vengeance. It is about punishment.
The biggest reason that I support the DP is because allowing a murderer to live places more value on his/her life than that of their victims. The victims in these cases cannot speak for themselves. But, their lives should have more intrinsic value than that of the person that killed them. Why does the murderer deserve better than what was given to the victim?
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7 years ago  ::  Oct 18, 2007 - 5:28PM #3
pIrish
Posts: 181
I'm against the death penalties for the reasons already mentioned in the first post. The death penalty does not stop people from murdering. The people that are going to murder someone are going to murder them, no matter the consequences.

I am also very against the death penalty because of the chance that the person sentenced to death was not guilty. I've heard of too many cases where prisoners on death row have been exonerated because of new evidence that surfaced and I've heard of way too many cases where people were found innocent after they were killed. This makes me feel uneasy and rather ill. If the prisoner was guilty, they have to sit in jail thinking about what they did for the rest of their lives. If the prisoner was innocent, that just gives them all that time for them and their families to try to prove their innocence.

Besides the fact that you can't pardon a dead person, it's actually cheaper to house an inmate for life than it is to kill them simply because of all of the automatic appeals that are in place when someone is sentenced to death.
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7 years ago  ::  Oct 18, 2007 - 5:40PM #4
Sacrificialgoddess
Posts: 9,496
I am against the death penality because I don't it to be all that satisfactory as a punishment, not to mention we have found faults in our trial system that have led innocent people to be executed.  You can't just say "sorry"  and hand them their life back.
Dark Energy. It can be found in the observable Universe. Found in ratios of 75% more than any other substance. Dark Energy. It can be found in religious extremists, in cheerleaders. To come to the conclusion that Dark signifies mean and malevolent would define 75% of the Universe as an evil force. Alternatively, to think that some cheerleaders don't have razors in their snatch is to be foolishly unarmed.

-- Tori Amos
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7 years ago  ::  Oct 18, 2007 - 11:05PM #5
bubbysmommy
Posts: 1,119
Then whether you want to or not, you have just stated that you would assign more value to the life of the murderer than that of his/her victim.
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7 years ago  ::  Oct 19, 2007 - 8:07AM #6
Tmarie64
Posts: 5,277
Bubbysmommy... do you believe in abortion?  If not, then you take a very hypocritical stance.  Taking a life is taking a life.  Humans cannot decide WHO gets to live.  We are not God, that is His place... that's the argument anti-abortion people should be making against the death penalty.

For the record, I believe in the death penalty, and I am pro-choice.
James Thurber - "It is better to know some of the questions than all of the answers."
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7 years ago  ::  Oct 19, 2007 - 8:36AM #7
Sacrificialgoddess
Posts: 9,496

bubbysmommy wrote:

Then whether you want to or not, you have just stated that you would assign more value to the life of the murderer than that of his/her victim.



I just said I can't be sure beyond a reasonable doubt that I had gotten the right person.  And I refuse to take the guilt of possibly being wrong on myself.  Besides, I am a big fan of the societies who believed in torturing murders rather than out and out killing them.  I would think it would impress upon them the wrongness of it more if we took a hand rather than a life.

Dark Energy. It can be found in the observable Universe. Found in ratios of 75% more than any other substance. Dark Energy. It can be found in religious extremists, in cheerleaders. To come to the conclusion that Dark signifies mean and malevolent would define 75% of the Universe as an evil force. Alternatively, to think that some cheerleaders don't have razors in their snatch is to be foolishly unarmed.

-- Tori Amos
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7 years ago  ::  Oct 19, 2007 - 9:14AM #8
pIrish
Posts: 181
[QUOTE=bubbysmommy;7497]Then whether you want to or not, you have just stated that you would assign more value to the life of the murderer than that of his/her victim.[/QUOTE]

Actually, no. It simply means that I value ALL human life, including the victim and the murderer. I don't pick and choose which lives are worth more than others based on what someone else says. Everybody's life is precious, even a murderer's. To kill them because they killed someone else makes you no better than them.

And what if you were in the jury that sent an innocent man to be executed? It happens way too often. Saving half a dozen innocent lives is well worth getting rid of the primitive, barbaric acts of the death penalty. I'd rather like to think we've progressed beyond the caveman days of "You hit me with club. I hit back!"

The US is one of the only western countries that even still has the death penalty and the countries that don't have it have less crime. We should learn by example, rather than make knee-jerk reactions.
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7 years ago  ::  Oct 19, 2007 - 9:46PM #9
bubbysmommy
Posts: 1,119
I will say this again here, because we are in a new home. I believe the DP should be an option only if there is absolute proof as to guilt. Before you say it, yes I know it is rare. Thus the DP should be equally as rare. I do not like the criminal justice system that we are currently forced to deal with. However, I do think that there must be a place for the DP. The man that murdered my best friend & their 2yr old daughter was not only caught literally in the act of trying to murder one of their young sons, both of the surviving boys testified that their daddy had killed their mommy. If this was not proof enough, He ended up pleading guilty.
That is the person that I believe we should be executing. Him & people like him. Not the person that claims to be innocent & there is no real evidence to back up his/her guilt.
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7 years ago  ::  Oct 20, 2007 - 11:20AM #10
HermanNewtic
Posts: 1
TMarie, I understand your passion but it confuses two definitions of death.  The taking of an innocent child's life enutero, is not the same as taking the life of a convicted murderer.  Accountability for one's actions attaches at a forensic level.  We do not hold an unborn child accounable for their actions at the same level.  Other posters are correct that about 26 persons so far have been released from death row from the hundreds awaiting imposition of a death sentence.  However, not all persons who have been released were on death row.  The question of "proof of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt" is always one that causes people to question what level of proof is necessary to convict much less impose the death penalty.  In a recent USSC decision, whether to impose the death penalty is now a decision left to a jury, not a judge.  (Interestingly in Arizona, as in other states, the death penalty is imposed more often now that it is in the hands of citizen-jurors than it was when judges imposed the penalty).  Proof of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt is not proof beyond "all doubt" and that, I believe, is where citizens who serve on capital cases, probably struggle the most.  Given that many jurors are aware of wrongful convictions, I think they probably demand a higher level of proof than say jurors on a non-capital case such as a possession of drugs case or some other low level offense, although I can't prove this to be true.  Finally, since most capital cases take approximately 17-20 years to impose sentence from the date of conviction,  I think the most telling point is the cost it imposes on the states to maintain these actions.  Death penalty cases from arrest to conviction  cost an average of $700,000 to $1million dollars (in some case more, but these are not the norm).  The appellate costs can easily equal that.  And in Arizona, nearly 60% are reversed on either the sentence or the trial (meaning imposition of life in prison or sending back for a new trial).  No easy answers, but just my two cents.  Herman
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