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4 years ago  ::  May 06, 2010 - 1:00PM #11
Christianlib
Posts: 21,848

May 6, 2010 -- 12:49PM, mytmouse57 wrote:


May 6, 2010 -- 11:44AM, Christianlib wrote:


Bingo! Myty.





Yep. I'll say it again -- start nailing the shady employers who are hiring the illegals as little more than slave labor -- and the "problem" will evaporate practically overnight.




 


Course, you gotta wonder what the rich folks (mostly, but not totally Republicans) will do for maids, gardeners, bus boys, roofers when they get a leak, etc.

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Libertarians want to break the glass, because they think a conspiracy created it.
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4 years ago  ::  May 06, 2010 - 1:03PM #12
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,782

May 6, 2010 -- 12:56PM, appy20 wrote:


May 6, 2010 -- 10:37AM, mytmouse57 wrote:


The "Immigration problem" is a total sham... just a way to whip up emotions.


I think that, because if it were a real problem, it could be solved virtually overnight. And very simply.


All that it would take would be to start nailing -- and I mean really hammering down hard, no pussyfooting around, flat-out nailing -- the people who create jobs for/hire illegal immigrants and pay them lousy wages under the table. You start doing that, and the job market that is drawing all those people here woud disappear. Thus, their incentive for wanting to come here would evaporate, and they would cease risking life and limb to come here.


But, I keenly notice that -- especially on right-wing talk radio where the "illegal invasion" hysteria is a favorite rant -- nobody wants to peep a word about the actual problem and the actual solution. Which is, again, the people creating those jobs and continuing to hire illegals to do those jobs.


But, I suspect nobody wants to really solve the so-called "problem" because it would take away a means for white guys to hire a dirt-cheap labor force that is sure not to give them any lip and work as hard as they want them to, for as long as they want them to.


No, it's just easier to whip up the flames of xenophobia and focus on the brown-skinned people, and not the dishonest white American guys who are actually causing the problem. And of course, the fat white guy radio talk show hosts really, really don't want to talk about that.




You are mostly right but there is one error.  The wages are often good.  At least they are here.  I know farmers who pay their illegals $10 an hour because the immigrants are the only hands they can find.  For this part of the country, $10 an hour is good.   If they mow grass, they charge 100 an acre whereas the legal lawn services charge $60 an hour.  I know this for a fact because I asked out of curiosity for my property.  I only use the legal. I have never used anyone illegal for anything.


They do bring problems.  To deny this is just as ignorant as those that are hysterically wanting to shoot everyone.   I live on a street with two houses full of them.  They drove a truck 30 feet off the road into my front yard and slammed into a beautiful tree. Drunk Driving.


Their kids throw rocks at my horses.  They drove a very nice black family out of the neighborhood by harrassing them constantly.   Drunk driving.  Down the road from me, a drunk illegal immigrant drove head on into a woman with 3 kids.  All 4 people were killed.  We have had international hit men in respectable neighborhoods killing entire families over drug trafficking.  Plus, we recently had an illegal who went to his workplace and began shooting up the place and killed his boss. 


Now, bear in mind, this is normally a very low crime area.  So, when things like this happen, it hits people harder than if they lived in New York.  They don't want the crime or the people doing the crime. 


Plus, our county had to pay $2 million dollars a year that the state stopped reinbursing us for to educate the illegals.  That meant that 13,000 home owners have to come up with an ADDITIONAL 2 million a year.  That does not include medical care. 


The average worker in our county who has health insurance that they pay for must fork out about $8000 to have a baby.  Illegal workers get it free.   Once again, property owners pick it up because they are the ones that finance the hospital's indigent fund. 


To say that the problems do not exist is ignorant.  The problems are very real.  Unless you are paying and experiencing those problems, you don't have a clue.


I don't care what color people are.  I prefer living in multi-racial neighborhoods.  I prefer the diversity of it.  I do care about behavior.  Our nation has a right to know who is crossing its borders. If it is a drug trarfficker or someone who has a history of drunk driving, we have the right to know that. 


I do agree that we should start arresting those that hire them.  I do not advocate any harm or violence toward those that do cross illegally.  However, my concern for them ends when their behavior crosses the line.  We don't allow that behavior from the rest of our community and I don't know why we must accept it BECAUSE they are illegal.





Any time you have a large crowd of newcomers, transient from their homeland, you are going to have a certain number of bad actors. The Irish, Italians and others got a bad reputation during the mass immigration from Europe because of that exact same thing. Hell, we still associate Italian-Americans with the mafia and Irish with exessive drinking and brawling today.


Granted, those were mostly legal immigrants. But, even legal immigration of large groups can and will include a certian percentage of trouble-makers.


You are saying the problem is real. Perhaps it is. But once again, the solution is very direct and simple -- make it more painful than it's worth for people here to hire illegals. Once the work dries up, most of them will stop coming here.

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4 years ago  ::  May 06, 2010 - 1:06PM #13
appy20
Posts: 10,165

May 6, 2010 -- 1:00PM, Christianlib wrote:


May 6, 2010 -- 12:49PM, mytmouse57 wrote:


May 6, 2010 -- 11:44AM, Christianlib wrote:


Bingo! Myty.





Yep. I'll say it again -- start nailing the shady employers who are hiring the illegals as little more than slave labor -- and the "problem" will evaporate practically overnight.




 


Course, you gotta wonder what the rich folks (mostly, but not totally Republicans) will do for maids, gardeners, bus boys, roofers when they get a leak, etc.




The farmers are caught in a bind.  It isn't that they want cheap labor.  They just want labor and cannot find anyone to do the work.  The illegals tend to be good workers.  When they aren't stealing....  One farmer I know had his entire pig herd stolen by his Mexican foreman. 


There are no rich people in my neck of the woods.  No one has maids or lawn workers unless a kid in the Sunday school class mows grass.   I do my own lawn.  God, I sure could use a maid.  Actually, I would prefer a good looking male British butler but that is for another thread.....

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4 years ago  ::  May 06, 2010 - 1:08PM #14
Christianlib
Posts: 21,848

The phrase, "We can find any US citizens to DO this work." really means, "We can't find any US citizens desparate enough to do this work for the pittance we're willing to pay, and in the crappy conditions we create."


 


 

Democrats think the glass is half full.
Republicans think the glass is theirs.
Libertarians want to break the glass, because they think a conspiracy created it.
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4 years ago  ::  May 06, 2010 - 1:15PM #15
appy20
Posts: 10,165

May 6, 2010 -- 1:03PM, mytmouse57 wrote:


May 6, 2010 -- 12:56PM, appy20 wrote:


May 6, 2010 -- 10:37AM, mytmouse57 wrote:


The "Immigration problem" is a total sham... just a way to whip up emotions.


I think that, because if it were a real problem, it could be solved virtually overnight. And very simply.


All that it would take would be to start nailing -- and I mean really hammering down hard, no pussyfooting around, flat-out nailing -- the people who create jobs for/hire illegal immigrants and pay them lousy wages under the table. You start doing that, and the job market that is drawing all those people here woud disappear. Thus, their incentive for wanting to come here would evaporate, and they would cease risking life and limb to come here.


But, I keenly notice that -- especially on right-wing talk radio where the "illegal invasion" hysteria is a favorite rant -- nobody wants to peep a word about the actual problem and the actual solution. Which is, again, the people creating those jobs and continuing to hire illegals to do those jobs.


But, I suspect nobody wants to really solve the so-called "problem" because it would take away a means for white guys to hire a dirt-cheap labor force that is sure not to give them any lip and work as hard as they want them to, for as long as they want them to.


No, it's just easier to whip up the flames of xenophobia and focus on the brown-skinned people, and not the dishonest white American guys who are actually causing the problem. And of course, the fat white guy radio talk show hosts really, really don't want to talk about that.




You are mostly right but there is one error.  The wages are often good.  At least they are here.  I know farmers who pay their illegals $10 an hour because the immigrants are the only hands they can find.  For this part of the country, $10 an hour is good.   If they mow grass, they charge 100 an acre whereas the legal lawn services charge $60 an hour.  I know this for a fact because I asked out of curiosity for my property.  I only use the legal. I have never used anyone illegal for anything.


They do bring problems.  To deny this is just as ignorant as those that are hysterically wanting to shoot everyone.   I live on a street with two houses full of them.  They drove a truck 30 feet off the road into my front yard and slammed into a beautiful tree. Drunk Driving.


Their kids throw rocks at my horses.  They drove a very nice black family out of the neighborhood by harrassing them constantly.   Drunk driving.  Down the road from me, a drunk illegal immigrant drove head on into a woman with 3 kids.  All 4 people were killed.  We have had international hit men in respectable neighborhoods killing entire families over drug trafficking.  Plus, we recently had an illegal who went to his workplace and began shooting up the place and killed his boss. 


Now, bear in mind, this is normally a very low crime area.  So, when things like this happen, it hits people harder than if they lived in New York.  They don't want the crime or the people doing the crime. 


Plus, our county had to pay $2 million dollars a year that the state stopped reinbursing us for to educate the illegals.  That meant that 13,000 home owners have to come up with an ADDITIONAL 2 million a year.  That does not include medical care. 


The average worker in our county who has health insurance that they pay for must fork out about $8000 to have a baby.  Illegal workers get it free.   Once again, property owners pick it up because they are the ones that finance the hospital's indigent fund. 


To say that the problems do not exist is ignorant.  The problems are very real.  Unless you are paying and experiencing those problems, you don't have a clue.


I don't care what color people are.  I prefer living in multi-racial neighborhoods.  I prefer the diversity of it.  I do care about behavior.  Our nation has a right to know who is crossing its borders. If it is a drug trarfficker or someone who has a history of drunk driving, we have the right to know that. 


I do agree that we should start arresting those that hire them.  I do not advocate any harm or violence toward those that do cross illegally.  However, my concern for them ends when their behavior crosses the line.  We don't allow that behavior from the rest of our community and I don't know why we must accept it BECAUSE they are illegal.





Any time you have a large crowd of newcomers, transient from their homeland, you are going to have a certain number of bad actors. The Irish, Italians and others got a bad reputation during the mass immigration from Europe because of that exact same thing. Hell, we still associate Italian-Americans with the mafia and Irish with exessive drinking and brawling today.


Granted, those were mostly legal immigrants. But, even legal immigration of large groups can and will include a certian percentage of trouble-makers.


You are saying the problem is real. Perhaps it is. But once again, the solution is very direct and simple -- make it more painful than it's worth for people here to hire illegals. Once the work dries up, most of them will stop coming here.




I hate to tel lyou this but they have found genetic/neurological evidence on why the Irish have more problems holding their liquor.  Don't get your panties in a wad.  I am very, very irish.  Russians and Scottish have same issues.  Biology is not politically correct. 


The crime problems are different now.  Drugs are worse.   We have had two houses blow up due to being meth labs and they were being run by Mexian illegals.  Once again, you are talking about an area that is not accustomed to crime.  Until quite recenlty, people left their doors unlocked.  We have a lot of poor people in surrounding areas that do not do this kind of thing.  Mores are pretty tight here.  Yes, there is a clash. 


Once again, There is a double standard.  Crimes and violence against white rural people doesn't count.  That is okay as long as the perps are illegal and of color.   No one is up in arms about that.  No one cares. 


If you are going to have a world with peace between cultures.  All cultures should have the right to be free of violence and not just those of color.  No one outsied the area ever gets upset whenever something happens to white rural people.   Ever.  In fact, NBC isn't going to cover that.  However, if a homeowner shoots an illegal breaking into their house, that will get covered nationally.  I promise. 

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4 years ago  ::  May 06, 2010 - 1:19PM #16
appy20
Posts: 10,165

May 6, 2010 -- 1:08PM, Christianlib wrote:


The phrase, "We can find any US citizens to DO this work." really means, "We can't find any US citizens desparate enough to do this work for the pittance we're willing to pay, and in the crappy conditions we create."


 


 




The work is hard.  The illegals do it very well.  However, the average farmer is not a rich man.  They are lucky to break even and more and more farmers leave farming every day because they can't make a living.  $10 an hour is not pittance here.  Bear in mind that 90% of our jobs are minimum wage. 


Lawn services are owned and operated by legal citizens that charge less.    But don't let facts get in the way of your bigotry. 

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4 years ago  ::  May 06, 2010 - 1:20PM #17
Christianlib
Posts: 21,848

I just figured out what was tickling at my mind over this.


If the basketball team REALLY wante to honor the moment, they should have worn "Los Sol."


"Los Suns" is a bastardization, and neither Englisn nor Spanish.

Democrats think the glass is half full.
Republicans think the glass is theirs.
Libertarians want to break the glass, because they think a conspiracy created it.
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4 years ago  ::  May 07, 2010 - 7:57AM #18
REteach
Posts: 14,222

May 6, 2010 -- 1:20PM, Christianlib wrote:


I just figured out what was tickling at my mind over this.


If the basketball team REALLY wante to honor the moment, they should have worn "Los Sol."


"Los Suns" is a bastardization, and neither Englisn nor Spanish.




That's why I like it.  We're neither English nor Spanish, either.  We are Americans, and that means a mishmash of everything.

I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize what you heard was not what I meant...
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4 years ago  ::  May 14, 2010 - 12:06PM #19
Merope
Posts: 9,357

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