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Flag Andalublue July 16, 2009 2:47 PM EDT

Jul 16, 2009 -- 2:37PM, shirleyj227 wrote:


Jul 16, 2009 -- 2:09PM, appy20 wrote:


I haven't resorted to rumor or such nonsense.  I was going by an actual deposition so keep your ignorant judgments to yourself.




Well said.




I think keeping opinions to oneself would lead to the close of business for most public forums. Whether the promotion of tittle-tattle is appropriate for Beliefnet is for the Moderators to rule upon, hence I have asked them to look at this thread. Beliefnet (all of it) has a mission, namely:


"Our mission is to help people like you find, and walk, a spiritual path that will bring comfort, hope, clarity, strength, and happiness"


Perhaps those people who are posting might like to think whether their posts are compatible with this mission. I am insulting no one in saying this, I'm just asking them to think about it. i don't think there is any call for throwing insults such as "ignorant" around.


With sincere respect,


Andalublue 

Flag shirleyj227 July 16, 2009 2:53 PM EDT

Jul 16, 2009 -- 2:47PM, Andalublue wrote:


Jul 16, 2009 -- 2:37PM, shirleyj227 wrote:


Jul 16, 2009 -- 2:09PM, appy20 wrote:


I haven't resorted to rumor or such nonsense.  I was going by an actual deposition so keep your ignorant judgments to yourself.




Well said.




I think keeping opinions to oneself would lead to the close of business for most public forums. Whether the promotion of tittle-tattle is appropriate for Beliefnet is for the Moderators to rule upon, hence I have asked them to look at this thread. Beliefnet (all of it) has a mission, namely:


"Our mission is to help people like you find, and walk, a spiritual path that will bring comfort, hope, clarity, strength, and happiness"


Perhaps those people who are posting might like to think whether their posts are compatible with this mission. I am insulting no one in saying this, I'm just asking them to think about it. i don't think there is any call for throwing insults such as "ignorant" around.


With sincere respect,


Andalublue 




I do not know about you but no part of my walking of a spirital path has anything to do with making a pedophile into a national hero.

Flag Agnosticspirit July 16, 2009 2:56 PM EDT

Jul 16, 2009 -- 2:47PM, Andalublue wrote:


 


I think keeping opinions to oneself would lead to the close of business for most public forums. Whether the promotion of tittle-tattle is appropriate for Beliefnet is for the Moderators to rule upon, hence I have asked them to look at this thread. Beliefnet (all of it) has a mission, namely:


"Our mission is to help people like you find, and walk, a spiritual path that will bring comfort, hope, clarity, strength, and happiness"


Perhaps those people who are posting might like to think whether their posts are compatible with this mission. I am insulting no one in saying this, I'm just asking them to think about it. i don't think there is any call for throwing insults such as "ignorant" around.


With sincere respect,


Andalublue




Andalublue, since I AM one of several moderators of this forum, please review my post above. Also, feel free to check out the first posts in the Welcome thread at the top of this forum to obtain a better understanding of the purpose of this forum. You are also welcome to click on my profile and press the button to send me a Private Message (PM) if you have any further questions.


If it is your opinion that all the forums of Beliefnet should adhere to a format that will encourage spiritual growth, please feel free to send your suggestions to our community mailbox.


IN the meantime, understand that in addition to religion and spirituality,  Beliefnet has forums to discuss politics, news, relationships, pets, family, budget issues, support forums for cancer, addiction, depression, animal rights, vegetarians, yoga, meditation, creative writing, etc. etc. etc.....


Kind regards,


agnosticspirit - Beliefnet Community host


Edited to add P.S...


Any more meta-discussion about the purpose of this forum or the purpose of Beliefnet, or whether members posts are living up to the purpose of Beliefnet will be removed ---  Public complaints are a violation of the ROC, even under the looser site wide guidelines this forum in particular is bound to.


 

Flag Andalublue July 16, 2009 2:58 PM EDT
[/quote]

That wasn't what I was referring to. I have no view on whether MJ was or was not a paedophile. And he certainly isn't viewed as a national hero in my country so I can't comment on that.

Flag shirleyj227 July 16, 2009 3:07 PM EDT

Jul 16, 2009 -- 2:58PM, Andalublue wrote:



That wasn't what I was referring to. I have no view on whether MJ was or was not a paedophile. And he certainly isn't viewed as a national hero in my country so I can't comment on that.





Good because he is not viewed that way here in Germany also.

Flag solfeggio July 16, 2009 5:11 PM EDT

Unfortunately, Jackson is thought of as something of a hero in my country (New Zealand), and there was even a poll taken recently in which an overwhelming number of respondents actually thought there should be some sort of memorial to this perverted creep!


It does make you wonder how a man who freely admitted that he liked to sleep naked with little boys could possibly be thought of as anything other than a paedophile.


But, that's people's blind devotion to cheap pop music - as performed by people with at best middling talent - for you.  They like to watch the stupid rock videos, so they don't care what the performers do.


Good example of just how shallow and superficial our Western society has become.


I think what amazes me most, though, is the fact that this fellow and his life and death are STILL being discussed here and elsewhere!  The publicity approaches that which followed the death of Princess Di twelve years ago.  And she was another pop hero(ine) as well, although certainly not the twisted pervert that was Jackson.

Flag Svetlana July 16, 2009 5:36 PM EDT

Jul 16, 2009 -- 5:11PM, solfeggio wrote:


Unfortunately, Jackson is thought of as something of a hero in my country (New Zealand), and there was even a poll taken recently in which an overwhelming number of respondents actually thought there should be some sort of memorial to this perverted creep!


It does make you wonder how a man who freely admitted that he liked to sleep naked with little boys could possibly be thought of as anything other than a paedophile.


But, that's people's blind devotion to cheap pop music - as performed by people with at best middling talent - for you.  They like to watch the stupid rock videos, so they don't care what the performers do.


Good example of just how shallow and superficial our Western society has become.


As your post is an excellent example of blanket condemnation without enough evidence, and a preference for the worst possible opinion out of a variety of opinions.  Very nice.


I think what amazes me most, though, is the fact that this fellow and his life and death are STILL being discussed here and elsewhere!  The publicity approaches that which followed the death of Princess Di twelve years ago.  And she was another pop hero(ine) as well, although certainly not the twisted pervert that was Jackson.



How very just of you!

Flag Ken July 16, 2009 5:47 PM EDT

Jul 16, 2009 -- 5:11PM, solfeggio wrote:


Unfortunately, Jackson is thought of as something of a hero in my country (New Zealand), and there was even a poll taken recently in which an overwhelming number of respondents actually thought there should be some sort of memorial to this perverted creep!


Since when did a passé song-and-dance man qualify as hero? Nowadays people will call anyone a hero.

Flag solfeggio July 16, 2009 11:04 PM EDT

Good point, Ken.  Indeed, modern culture often does make heroes out of very unlikely candidates, with Jackson a good case in point. 


But he's not the only one.  Sports figures are thought of as heroes by virtue of the fact that they can win games. Taken at face value, this is absurd.  Winning a game is hardly a measure of anyone's worth to a community or value as a citizen.  And, because new candidates are always coming along to take away the prizes, today's sports heroes are often enough tomorrow's forgotten celebrities.


I'm sure everybody remembers the OJ Simpson case back in 1994, when this sports hero got away with a double murder simply because his fans couldn't believe that their sports hero would have done such a despicable act. 


The rock 'n' roll performers are of course the heroes of today's young people.  What is sad, and even pathetic, is that the performers are, if judged by performers of true greatness, people of little if any talent at all.  But young people don't know that, because all they listen to are pop rock stars.  That, in itself is a shame, because they are missing so much, but it is doubly unfortunate because it shows how standards have declined in the music business.


At any rate, the fact of Jackson being a disturbed and twisted individual is irrefutable, whether his slavish fans wish to admit it or not. 


The question all of them should be asking is whether, if they had a young child, they would have allowed that child to spend the night with their hero.

Flag Wmdkitty July 17, 2009 2:18 AM EDT

MJ isn't a hero.


He's a LEGEND.


He taught us that if you work hard, and practice, you can be successful.


He taught us that the world CAN be a better place, if we all work together.


Should these lessons be forgotten, simply because some people want to focus on his wrongdoings?


Or should we continue to pursue his vision, to keep his legacy going, and make the world a better place?

Flag whirlinggal July 17, 2009 2:38 AM EDT

WMDKitty--hi. I agree with your post.


I would add that for some people Jackson was/is a "hero" because of how he related to them.


For example he did concerts and appearances and work in a number of what we call "Third World" countries.


For example the video for "They Don't Care About Us" was filmed in the slums and prisons of Rio de Janero.


 


For all his personal problems/faults he did exhibit an attitude of caring about--of actually NOTICING--the many disenfranchised and voiceless peoples of the world.


That does make him a kind of hero in some people's eyes.


And it explains why people around the world mourn his untimely death.


 

Flag river8101 July 17, 2009 8:06 AM EDT

Many people work their whole lives and serve in third world countries, some in dangerous terrorist areas, and nobody even knows their names or cares what happens to them.


Singing and wild dancing, even pedophilia or sports does not, in any way make you a hero.  I guess MJ became a hero to many of the disenfranchised, in particular young people and teens because of the type of act he had.  No holds barred, no restrictions, you can do and say anything.  This is the way many young people feel or felt when they are/were growing up.  They want a representative who can do and say anything at all, and he was it.  Every generation has one. 


Solfegio wrote:  I'm sure everybody remembers the OJ Simpson case back in 1994, when this sports hero got away with a double murder simply because his fans couldn't believe that their sports hero would have done such a despicable act.


As to OJ, I don't think those who supported him really believed he was innocent, they just didn't care.  It was mainly a racial thing.  I'm glad he's finally in jail.

Flag appy20 July 17, 2009 8:40 AM EDT

I would be more impressed with Michael Jackson if he had given up all his money except $250,000 a year, lived within his means and donated the rest to charity instead of travelling the world and sleeping with little boys while going on these obscene spending sprees.  He was a lot of hype. If you are going to go around preaching, you need to live it.  The proportion of his income that went to charity is far less than that of many who contributed when he asked.

Flag river8101 July 17, 2009 8:51 AM EDT

Perhaps you can't blame some people for being so mesmerized by Jackson.  Some people are so needy, so desperate just to find some personal happiness in life that Jackson, wth his devil may care life and act lifts their spirits and makes them feel that they too can do anything. (no holds barred)   At the same time those people who are mesmorized by Jackson, can't be bothered with what's really going on in the world ... the bigger picture.


Btw, if Jackson admitted sleeping with little boys naked or partially clothed, that is pedophilia.  He had no business doing that.  It's against the law.

Flag Girlchristian July 17, 2009 12:25 PM EDT

Jul 17, 2009 -- 8:51AM, river8101 wrote:


Perhaps you can't blame some people for being so mesmerized by Jackson.  Some people are so needy, so desperate just to find some personal happiness in life that Jackson, wth his devil may care life and act lifts their spirits and makes them feel that they too can do anything. (no holds barred)   At the same time those people who are mesmorized by Jackson, can't be bothered with what's really going on in the world ... the bigger picture.


Btw, if Jackson admitted sleeping with little boys naked or partially clothed, that is pedophilia.  He had no business doing that.  It's against the law.




In googling for the exact quote, nowhere have I found that MJ admitted to sleeping NAKED with boys, but did admit to sleeping in the same bed with them, clothed.  I also found statements from boys that had shared a bed with him that nothing sexual had ever occurred as well as the court case that stated that an adult sleeping in the same bed with a child is not a criminal offense.


 

Flag Darkchild July 17, 2009 1:44 PM EDT

Let he or she who is without sin cast the first stone.  Jesus said that!  Judge not lest ye shall be judged!   It amazes me that Christians are making such statements about a person YOU DO NOT KNOW PERSONALLY!  We can all make assumptions based on the information that others get from others...hence, lost in translation.  We can all speculate as to why someone would do something, but why?  Why do we waste our time an energy on such things when God should be our focus.  I grew up with MJ and he was always little Michael to me.  As I grew up, I kept up with him, but he was Lil Michael until he passed to Glory.  MJ was a great humanitarian, which many did not or do not know this about him.  He loved people, he adored his fans. He worked so hard because he knew when he was on that stage, he fans expected a fantabulous show.  He was a showman's showman.  Many are so quick to judge with partial information. So here are some facts for you.  His addiction to painkillers was due to the multiple surgeries on his scalp, then he suffered other injuries, many while performing or practicing.  MJ had to grow up fast and saw many things a child his age should not have been exposed to.  Much of this was due to his father's desire for self-glory and money, having them (The J5) perform in places children should not have been.  Though we who have never been dependent on a substance would never understand this kind of dependency.  Braking a habit like that is more difficult than any of us could imagine.  Facts:  The insurance company for his Dangerous tour advised him to settle with the first lying child and his family.  He was advised though he was innocent and nothing could be proven, it could take years for the case to settle. Based on his advisers, he settled.   It was out right extortion.  I now hear that child, now a 20 something year old man, says MJ never did any of the things he said.  He said his father wanted money because he was tired of being poor.  The father is reported to have said MJ would be ruined.  Why would one person want to ruin another?  Lord God help us.  But he is famous and he unfortunately placed himself in situations where others could take advantage of him.  He, himself explained this to Diane Sawyer.  The second little liar really hurt him to the core and he refused to settle and was acquitted!  HE WAS ACQUITTED PEOPLE!  THERE WAS NO EVIDENCE TO PROVE HE HAD DONE THE VILE THINGS THE WARPED PARENTS SAID HE HAD DONE.  HE IS INNOCENT.  This took alot out of him.  With his Lupus, Vitiligo and Fibroid Myalisia, he was exhausted.  He was disgusted with the US and people taking advantage of him.  MJ was and is a good man.  He was a gift from God to this world to bring a message and share his wonderful gift with the WORLD! If you truly listen his music or get your hands on the lyrics, you will seek what I mean.   Let no bad thing come from our lips about another brother or sister.  If you don't know that facts, please be silent.  Be Blessed and Stop the Hatefullness.

Flag Christianlib July 17, 2009 2:13 PM EDT

Thus ends the lesson.  Go in peace.

Flag Stardove July 17, 2009 2:23 PM EDT

Jul 17, 2009 -- 1:44PM, Darkchild wrote:


Let he or she who is without sin cast the first stone.  Jesus said that!  Judge not lest ye shall be judged!   It amazes me that Christians are making such statements about a person YOU DO NOT KNOW PERSONALLY!



Welcome to the Hot Topic Forum. 


Just wanted to let you know that Beliefnet members come from all kinds of different religions.  Some have no religious beliefs at all.  My point being not all who post here or other forums at B'net are of the Christian faith.


You met Michael?  You make a statement members are making statements about a person they do not know personally, so I ask you if  you knew him personally?


If not, are you not doing the same thing?

Flag Jmjohnston July 17, 2009 5:44 PM EDT

God, I pray your grace and tender mercy is with all of us.


Amazing!!!


Many people, across this entire world died on June 25th, and Michael Jackson was just one of them.


I believe that debating what he was or was not serves absolutely no purpose what-so-ever.


I thank GOD, that at the beginning, the middle and the end of the day, it is His opinion that counts.


So, rather than depating the merits (or the lack thereof) of someone, shouldn't we be on our collective knees praying for our own sin's and appealing to the Lord to embrace all of the dearly departed?


OR - maybe I just don't get it.

Flag Tmarie64 July 17, 2009 6:37 PM EDT

No evidence, EXCEPT the child who described his penis and scrotum in detail.  No, THAT'S not evidence of inappropriate, if not downright perverted, behaviour.

Flag Svetlana July 17, 2009 8:27 PM EDT

Jul 17, 2009 -- 5:44PM, Jmjohnston wrote:


God, I pray your grace and tender mercy is with all of us.


Amazing!!!


Many people, across this entire world died on June 25th, and Michael Jackson was just one of them.


I believe that debating what he was or was not serves absolutely no purpose what-so-ever.


I thank GOD, that at the beginning, the middle and the end of the day, it is His opinion that counts.


So, rather than depating the merits (or the lack thereof) of someone, shouldn't we be on our collective knees praying for our own sin's and appealing to the Lord to embrace all of the dearly departed?


OR - maybe I just don't get it.



I'm afraid you just don't get it.  We are able to do both, if not necessarily at the same time.  Different people have different interests, and there is absolutely nothing about stating an opinion that bars a person from cataloging their own sins and praying for forgiveness.  The healthy human intellect needs variety.

Flag solfeggio July 18, 2009 12:43 AM EDT

Where Jackson was concerned, appy20 and Tmarie tell it like it is. Grown men who sleep naked with little boys, either in the same bed or the same room, are seriously disturbed individuals who should be condemned and not praised.


All the blathering about 'what-would-Jesus-do' or how Christians shouldn't 'cast the first stone,' etc., etc. doesn't change any of that.    


Show business legend?  National hero?  Universal icon? Give me a break.  He was nothing more than a rock performer of limited ability who had a good press agent. 


Show business legends are guys like Frank Sinatra, who posessed a truly wonderful singing voice, was an excellent actor, and could dance as well.  True heroes are people like the astronauts who risked their lives to learn some of the secrets of the universe. 


An icon is someone who is the symbol of a cultural movement, such as Jackie Robinson, whose courage in the face of overwhelming odds changed baseball in America.  A television news icon was the beloved Walter Cronkite.  And, of course, one of the most iconic figures of all is Nelson Mandela, described as the universal icon of courage and statesmanship.


Jackson, by contrast, would have to be considered an 'anti-icon,' which would be a popular performer magnified to larger-than-life proportions not because he really was larger than life, but precisely because he wasn't.  As Bob Herbert wrote in the New York Times a few weeks ago:


'Jackson was...the embodiment of fantasy gone wild....The Michael-mania that has erupted since Jackson's death...is yet another spasm of the culture opting for fantasy over reality.  We don't want to look under the rock that was Jackson's real life.'


(I have not been able to provide a link to the Herbert piece, but you can read easily find it by Googling Bob Herbert 'Beyond the Facade,' July 3, 2009 at the Times.)



Jackson was a despicable person who should not be glorified.

Think about it.

Flag river8101 July 18, 2009 5:48 AM EDT

Bob  Herbert:  Beyond the Facade


 


www.nytimes.com/2009/07/04/opinion/04her...

Flag river8101 July 18, 2009 6:09 AM EDT

Jul 17, 2009 -- 12:25PM, Girlchristian wrote:


Jul 17, 2009 -- 8:51AM, river8101 wrote:


Perhaps you can't blame some people for being so mesmerized by Jackson.  Some people are so needy, so desperate just to find some personal happiness in life that Jackson, wth his devil may care life and act lifts their spirits and makes them feel that they too can do anything. (no holds barred)   At the same time those people who are mesmerized by Jackson, can't be bothered with what's really going on in the world ... the bigger picture.


Btw, if Jackson admitted sleeping with little boys naked or partially clothed, that is pedophilia.  He had no business doing that.  It's against the law.




In googling for the exact quote, nowhere have I found that MJ admitted to sleeping NAKED with boys, but did admit to sleeping in the same bed with them, clothed.  I also found statements from boys that had shared a bed with him that nothing sexual had ever occurred as well as the court case that stated that an adult sleeping in the same bed with a child is not a criminal offense.




www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-15...


Do you really think he was stupid enough  to admit publicly that he was naked, or the kids were naked when they slept together?  The fact that he, a 44 year old drugged out pop star,  was sleeping in a bed with little boys, is not allowed!  Though perhaps their parents were secretly paid off, who knows?  Is there anyone here defending Jackson who would have let their own kids sleep with him?  I hope not.  What happened in the night, we don't know.  Perhaps the kids don't know, or if they did, didn't understand, if Michael was skillfully playful about it.  Michael was a druggie.  He was an actor.   He had access to any kind of drugs, sleeping pills, pot, etc.  He died from his countless amount of drugs!


Was there a small amount of  sleeping drugs  in that "hot milk."  And what was the hot milk about?  Was it to dissolve something?   Kids don't ordinarily drink hot milk anymore even at bed time.     Was their marijuana in the air that confused the children into thinking what was play was actually sex?   We don't know that either.  Those doors to Jackson's bedroom were thoroughly locked and secured.


What kind of parent allows their children to sleep with a complete stranger just because he's a sing and dance man.   What kind of normal man likes sleeping with little boys?  I guess, by the excuses here made for Jackson and those little boys, they would have trusted their own little boys to sleep with him too. Or maybe those comments are made by people who don't have little boys.   In any case, the fact that this 44 year old man, constructed a Peter Pan (who wouldn't grow up) playground and house in which he regularly slept with little boys under the guise of Peter Pan is pedophilia! This pop star's idea of fun and games during the night with little boys is not kosher.  Not allowed, not by Jackson or any other 44 year old stranger, especially a man whose a user.


And please don't play the religious card with me.  It has nothing to do with what happened at Neverland.

Flag shirleyj227 July 18, 2009 10:56 AM EDT

Jul 18, 2009 -- 6:09AM, river8101 wrote:


Jul 17, 2009 -- 12:25PM, Girlchristian wrote:


Jul 17, 2009 -- 8:51AM, river8101 wrote:


Perhaps you can't blame some people for being so mesmerized by Jackson.  Some people are so needy, so desperate just to find some personal happiness in life that Jackson, wth his devil may care life and act lifts their spirits and makes them feel that they too can do anything. (no holds barred)   At the same time those people who are mesmerized by Jackson, can't be bothered with what's really going on in the world ... the bigger picture.


Btw, if Jackson admitted sleeping with little boys naked or partially clothed, that is pedophilia.  He had no business doing that.  It's against the law.




In googling for the exact quote, nowhere have I found that MJ admitted to sleeping NAKED with boys, but did admit to sleeping in the same bed with them, clothed.  I also found statements from boys that had shared a bed with him that nothing sexual had ever occurred as well as the court case that stated that an adult sleeping in the same bed with a child is not a criminal offense.




www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-15...


Do you really think he was stupid enough to admit publicly that he was naked, or the kids were naked when they slept together?  The fact that he, a 44 year old drugged out pop star,  was sleeping in a bed with little boys, is not allowed!  Though perhaps their parents were secretly paid off, who knows?  Is there anyone here defending Jackson who would have let their own kids sleep with him?  I hope not.  What happened in the night, we don't know.  Perhaps the kids don't know, or if they did, didn't understand, if Michael was skillfully playful about it.  Michael was a druggie.  He was an actor.   He had access to any kind of drugs, sleeping pills, pot, etc.  He died from his countless amount of drugs!


Was there a small amount of sleeping drugs  in that "hot milk."  And what was the hot milk about?  Was it to dissolve something?   Kids don't ordinarily drink hot milk anymore even at bed time.     Was their marijuana in the air that confused the children into thinking what was play was actually sex?   We don't know that either.  Those doors to Jackson's bedroom were thoroughly locked and secured.


What kind of parent allows their children to sleep with a complete stranger just because he's a sing and dance man.   What kind of normal man likes sleeping with little boys?  I guess, by the excuses here made for Jackson and those little boys, they would have trusted their own little boys to sleep with him too. Or maybe those comments are made by people who don't have little boys.   In any case, the fact that this 44 year old man, constructed a Peter Pan (who wouldn't grow up) playground and house in which he regularly slept with little boys under the guise of Peter Pan is pedophilia! This pop star's idea of fun and games during the night with little boys is not kosher. Not allowed, not by Jackson or any other 44 year old stranger, especially a man whose a user.


And please don't play the religious card with me.  It has nothing to do with what happened at Neverland.




Wonderful post River. Spot on.


Shirl

Flag Girlchristian July 18, 2009 12:54 PM EDT

Jul 18, 2009 -- 6:09AM, river8101 wrote:


Jul 17, 2009 -- 12:25PM, Girlchristian wrote:


Jul 17, 2009 -- 8:51AM, river8101 wrote:


Perhaps you can't blame some people for being so mesmerized by Jackson.  Some people are so needy, so desperate just to find some personal happiness in life that Jackson, wth his devil may care life and act lifts their spirits and makes them feel that they too can do anything. (no holds barred)   At the same time those people who are mesmerized by Jackson, can't be bothered with what's really going on in the world ... the bigger picture.


Btw, if Jackson admitted sleeping with little boys naked or partially clothed, that is pedophilia.  He had no business doing that.  It's against the law.




In googling for the exact quote, nowhere have I found that MJ admitted to sleeping NAKED with boys, but did admit to sleeping in the same bed with them, clothed.  I also found statements from boys that had shared a bed with him that nothing sexual had ever occurred as well as the court case that stated that an adult sleeping in the same bed with a child is not a criminal offense.




www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-15...


Do you really think he was stupid enough to admit publicly that he was naked, or the kids were naked when they slept together?  The fact that he, a 44 year old drugged out pop star,  was sleeping in a bed with little boys, is not allowed!  Though perhaps their parents were secretly paid off, who knows?  Is there anyone here defending Jackson who would have let their own kids sleep with him?  I hope not.  What happened in the night, we don't know.  Perhaps the kids don't know, or if they did, didn't understand, if Michael was skillfully playful about it.  Michael was a druggie.  He was an actor.   He had access to any kind of drugs, sleeping pills, pot, etc.  He died from his countless amount of drugs!


Was there a small amount of sleeping drugs  in that "hot milk."  And what was the hot milk about?  Was it to dissolve something?   Kids don't ordinarily drink hot milk anymore even at bed time.     Was their marijuana in the air that confused the children into thinking what was play was actually sex?   We don't know that either.  Those doors to Jackson's bedroom were thoroughly locked and secured.


What kind of parent allows their children to sleep with a complete stranger just because he's a sing and dance man.   What kind of normal man likes sleeping with little boys?  I guess, by the excuses here made for Jackson and those little boys, they would have trusted their own little boys to sleep with him too. Or maybe those comments are made by people who don't have little boys.   In any case, the fact that this 44 year old man, constructed a Peter Pan (who wouldn't grow up) playground and house in which he regularly slept with little boys under the guise of Peter Pan is pedophilia! This pop star's idea of fun and games during the night with little boys is not kosher. Not allowed, not by Jackson or any other 44 year old stranger, especially a man whose a user.


And please don't play the religious card with me.  It has nothing to do with what happened at Neverland.




Everything in your post is questions or assumptions about MJ with no actual proof.  A couple folks on this board said that MJ admitted to sleeping naked with little boys and he never did which makes them a liar for saying so.  The law says that an adult sleeping with children is not against the law and is not pedofilia no matter how much you say it is so.  One of the accusers has already backpedaled and said that his parents made him lie.  The other the jurors found not reliable.  MJ ASKED the parents if he could sleep in the same bed with them and the parents allowed him to do so which means he was doing nothing wrong in the parents minds. 


I don't think he's a hero or a God and I do think he had some issues, but to call him a pedofile when there is not proof that he was is not the right thing to do.


 



Flag shirleyj227 July 18, 2009 1:13 PM EDT

Jul 18, 2009 -- 12:54PM, Girlchristian wrote:


Jul 18, 2009 -- 6:09AM, river8101 wrote:


Jul 17, 2009 -- 12:25PM, Girlchristian wrote:


Jul 17, 2009 -- 8:51AM, river8101 wrote:


Perhaps you can't blame some people for being so mesmerized by Jackson.  Some people are so needy, so desperate just to find some personal happiness in life that Jackson, wth his devil may care life and act lifts their spirits and makes them feel that they too can do anything. (no holds barred)   At the same time those people who are mesmerized by Jackson, can't be bothered with what's really going on in the world ... the bigger picture.


Btw, if Jackson admitted sleeping with little boys naked or partially clothed, that is pedophilia.  He had no business doing that.  It's against the law.




In googling for the exact quote, nowhere have I found that MJ admitted to sleeping NAKED with boys, but did admit to sleeping in the same bed with them, clothed.  I also found statements from boys that had shared a bed with him that nothing sexual had ever occurred as well as the court case that stated that an adult sleeping in the same bed with a child is not a criminal offense.




www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-15...


Do you really think he was stupid enough to admit publicly that he was naked, or the kids were naked when they slept together?  The fact that he, a 44 year old drugged out pop star,  was sleeping in a bed with little boys, is not allowed!  Though perhaps their parents were secretly paid off, who knows?  Is there anyone here defending Jackson who would have let their own kids sleep with him?  I hope not.  What happened in the night, we don't know.  Perhaps the kids don't know, or if they did, didn't understand, if Michael was skillfully playful about it.  Michael was a druggie.  He was an actor.   He had access to any kind of drugs, sleeping pills, pot, etc.  He died from his countless amount of drugs!


Was there a small amount of sleeping drugs  in that "hot milk."  And what was the hot milk about?  Was it to dissolve something?   Kids don't ordinarily drink hot milk anymore even at bed time.     Was their marijuana in the air that confused the children into thinking what was play was actually sex?   We don't know that either.  Those doors to Jackson's bedroom were thoroughly locked and secured.


What kind of parent allows their children to sleep with a complete stranger just because he's a sing and dance man.   What kind of normal man likes sleeping with little boys?  I guess, by the excuses here made for Jackson and those little boys, they would have trusted their own little boys to sleep with him too. Or maybe those comments are made by people who don't have little boys.   In any case, the fact that this 44 year old man, constructed a Peter Pan (who wouldn't grow up) playground and house in which he regularly slept with little boys under the guise of Peter Pan is pedophilia! This pop star's idea of fun and games during the night with little boys is not kosher. Not allowed, not by Jackson or any other 44 year old stranger, especially a man whose a user.


And please don't play the religious card with me.  It has nothing to do with what happened at Neverland.




Everything in your post is questions or assumptions about MJ with no actual proof.  A couple folks on this board said that MJ admitted to sleeping naked with little boys and he never did which makes them a liar for saying so.  The law says that an adult sleeping with children is not against the law and is not pedofilia no matter how much you say it is so.  One of the accusers has already backpedaled and said that his parents made him lie.  The other the jurors found not reliable.  MJ ASKED the parents if he could sleep in the same bed with them and the parents allowed him to do so which means he was doing nothing wrong in the parents minds. 


I don't think he's a hero or a God and I do think he had some issues, but to call him a pedofile when there is not proof that he was is not the right thing to do.


 


 




 


Do you have any idea how hard it is to bring this type of charges against someone as wealthy and famous as MJ? You can dam well be sure they had very good reasons and evidence to do it. He paid those families off. That is the only reason he was not sent to jail. He was a very sick man.


 

Flag Girlchristian July 18, 2009 1:23 PM EDT

Jul 18, 2009 -- 1:13PM, shirleyj227 wrote:


Jul 18, 2009 -- 12:54PM, Girlchristian wrote:


Jul 18, 2009 -- 6:09AM, river8101 wrote:


Jul 17, 2009 -- 12:25PM, Girlchristian wrote:


Jul 17, 2009 -- 8:51AM, river8101 wrote:


Perhaps you can't blame some people for being so mesmerized by Jackson.  Some people are so needy, so desperate just to find some personal happiness in life that Jackson, wth his devil may care life and act lifts their spirits and makes them feel that they too can do anything. (no holds barred)   At the same time those people who are mesmerized by Jackson, can't be bothered with what's really going on in the world ... the bigger picture.


Btw, if Jackson admitted sleeping with little boys naked or partially clothed, that is pedophilia.  He had no business doing that.  It's against the law.




In googling for the exact quote, nowhere have I found that MJ admitted to sleeping NAKED with boys, but did admit to sleeping in the same bed with them, clothed.  I also found statements from boys that had shared a bed with him that nothing sexual had ever occurred as well as the court case that stated that an adult sleeping in the same bed with a child is not a criminal offense.




www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-15...


Do you really think he was stupid enough to admit publicly that he was naked, or the kids were naked when they slept together?  The fact that he, a 44 year old drugged out pop star,  was sleeping in a bed with little boys, is not allowed!  Though perhaps their parents were secretly paid off, who knows?  Is there anyone here defending Jackson who would have let their own kids sleep with him?  I hope not.  What happened in the night, we don't know.  Perhaps the kids don't know, or if they did, didn't understand, if Michael was skillfully playful about it.  Michael was a druggie.  He was an actor.   He had access to any kind of drugs, sleeping pills, pot, etc.  He died from his countless amount of drugs!


Was there a small amount of sleeping drugs  in that "hot milk."  And what was the hot milk about?  Was it to dissolve something?   Kids don't ordinarily drink hot milk anymore even at bed time.     Was their marijuana in the air that confused the children into thinking what was play was actually sex?   We don't know that either.  Those doors to Jackson's bedroom were thoroughly locked and secured.


What kind of parent allows their children to sleep with a complete stranger just because he's a sing and dance man.   What kind of normal man likes sleeping with little boys?  I guess, by the excuses here made for Jackson and those little boys, they would have trusted their own little boys to sleep with him too. Or maybe those comments are made by people who don't have little boys.   In any case, the fact that this 44 year old man, constructed a Peter Pan (who wouldn't grow up) playground and house in which he regularly slept with little boys under the guise of Peter Pan is pedophilia! This pop star's idea of fun and games during the night with little boys is not kosher. Not allowed, not by Jackson or any other 44 year old stranger, especially a man whose a user.


And please don't play the religious card with me.  It has nothing to do with what happened at Neverland.




Everything in your post is questions or assumptions about MJ with no actual proof.  A couple folks on this board said that MJ admitted to sleeping naked with little boys and he never did which makes them a liar for saying so.  The law says that an adult sleeping with children is not against the law and is not pedofilia no matter how much you say it is so.  One of the accusers has already backpedaled and said that his parents made him lie.  The other the jurors found not reliable.  MJ ASKED the parents if he could sleep in the same bed with them and the parents allowed him to do so which means he was doing nothing wrong in the parents minds. 


I don't think he's a hero or a God and I do think he had some issues, but to call him a pedofile when there is not proof that he was is not the right thing to do.


 


 




 


Do you have any idea how hard it is to bring this type of charges against someone as wealthy and famous as MJ? You can dam well be sure they had very good reasons and evidence to do it. He paid those families off. That is the only reason he was not sent to jail. He was a very sick man.


 




So the kid that has admitted that his parents made him lie to get the money is lying again? 


Only two charges were brought up against him and the fact that one of them has admitted to lying should give anyone pause in being so sure that the charges weren't made up.  It's not that difficult to bring charges up against anyone.

Flag rabello July 18, 2009 1:36 PM EDT

Guilty or not, the idolatry exhibited during the 2-week long deathfest pretty much shows Michael Jackson would have never, ever been convicted by any jury, in any court of law, no matter what he did.

Flag Stardove July 18, 2009 1:45 PM EDT

Jul 17, 2009 -- 5:44PM, Jmjohnston wrote:


God, I pray your grace and tender mercy is with all of us.


Amazing!!!


Many people, across this entire world died on June 25th, and Michael Jackson was just one of them.


I believe that debating what he was or was not serves absolutely no purpose what-so-ever.


I thank GOD, that at the beginning, the middle and the end of the day, it is His opinion that counts.


So, rather than depating the merits (or the lack thereof) of someone, shouldn't we be on our collective knees praying for our own sin's and appealing to the Lord to embrace all of the dearly departed?


OR - maybe I just don't get it.



Jmjohnston,



Welcome to the Hot Topic Zone which operates a little different than other forums at Beliefnet.  The rules of conduct are more relaxed although there are still guideline here.


Debating on some forums is exactly what the forums are for.  If everyone thought exactly the same life would be dull and so would the forums.  There would be nothing to discuss at forums.


People have different opinions about almost everything.  So much attention was given in main street media when Michael died is it any wonder that members are still discussing his life and the circumstances surrounding him, his death, the memorial service and he isn't buried yet?

Flag Ken July 18, 2009 2:16 PM EDT

Jul 17, 2009 -- 5:44PM, Jmjohnston wrote:

So, rather than depating the merits (or the lack thereof) of someone, shouldn't we be on our collective knees praying for our own sin's and appealing to the Lord to embrace all of the dearly departed?


No. That would be boring.

Flag shirleyj227 July 18, 2009 2:18 PM EDT

Jul 18, 2009 -- 1:36PM, rabello wrote:


Guilty or not, the idolatry exhibited during the 2-week long deathfest pretty much shows Michael Jackson would have never, ever been convicted by any jury, in any court of law, no matter what he did.




Yes sad but true. It is the children that has to suffer for this.

Flag shirleyj227 July 18, 2009 2:21 PM EDT

Jul 18, 2009 -- 1:23PM, Girlchristian wrote:


Jul 18, 2009 -- 1:13PM, shirleyj227 wrote:


Jul 18, 2009 -- 12:54PM, Girlchristian wrote:


Jul 18, 2009 -- 6:09AM, river8101 wrote:


Jul 17, 2009 -- 12:25PM, Girlchristian wrote:


Jul 17, 2009 -- 8:51AM, river8101 wrote:


Perhaps you can't blame some people for being so mesmerized by Jackson.  Some people are so needy, so desperate just to find some personal happiness in life that Jackson, wth his devil may care life and act lifts their spirits and makes them feel that they too can do anything. (no holds barred)   At the same time those people who are mesmerized by Jackson, can't be bothered with what's really going on in the world ... the bigger picture.


Btw, if Jackson admitted sleeping with little boys naked or partially clothed, that is pedophilia.  He had no business doing that.  It's against the law.




In googling for the exact quote, nowhere have I found that MJ admitted to sleeping NAKED with boys, but did admit to sleeping in the same bed with them, clothed.  I also found statements from boys that had shared a bed with him that nothing sexual had ever occurred as well as the court case that stated that an adult sleeping in the same bed with a child is not a criminal offense.




www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-15...


Do you really think he was stupid enough to admit publicly that he was naked, or the kids were naked when they slept together?  The fact that he, a 44 year old drugged out pop star,  was sleeping in a bed with little boys, is not allowed!  Though perhaps their parents were secretly paid off, who knows?  Is there anyone here defending Jackson who would have let their own kids sleep with him?  I hope not.  What happened in the night, we don't know.  Perhaps the kids don't know, or if they did, didn't understand, if Michael was skillfully playful about it.  Michael was a druggie.  He was an actor.   He had access to any kind of drugs, sleeping pills, pot, etc.  He died from his countless amount of drugs!


Was there a small amount of sleeping drugs  in that "hot milk."  And what was the hot milk about?  Was it to dissolve something?   Kids don't ordinarily drink hot milk anymore even at bed time.     Was their marijuana in the air that confused the children into thinking what was play was actually sex?   We don't know that either.  Those doors to Jackson's bedroom were thoroughly locked and secured.


What kind of parent allows their children to sleep with a complete stranger just because he's a sing and dance man.   What kind of normal man likes sleeping with little boys?  I guess, by the excuses here made for Jackson and those little boys, they would have trusted their own little boys to sleep with him too. Or maybe those comments are made by people who don't have little boys.   In any case, the fact that this 44 year old man, constructed a Peter Pan (who wouldn't grow up) playground and house in which he regularly slept with little boys under the guise of Peter Pan is pedophilia! This pop star's idea of fun and games during the night with little boys is not kosher. Not allowed, not by Jackson or any other 44 year old stranger, especially a man whose a user.


And please don't play the religious card with me.  It has nothing to do with what happened at Neverland.




Everything in your post is questions or assumptions about MJ with no actual proof.  A couple folks on this board said that MJ admitted to sleeping naked with little boys and he never did which makes them a liar for saying so.  The law says that an adult sleeping with children is not against the law and is not pedofilia no matter how much you say it is so.  One of the accusers has already backpedaled and said that his parents made him lie.  The other the jurors found not reliable.  MJ ASKED the parents if he could sleep in the same bed with them and the parents allowed him to do so which means he was doing nothing wrong in the parents minds. 


I don't think he's a hero or a God and I do think he had some issues, but to call him a pedofile when there is not proof that he was is not the right thing to do.


 


 




 


Do you have any idea how hard it is to bring this type of charges against someone as wealthy and famous as MJ? You can dam well be sure they had very good reasons and evidence to do it. He paid those families off. That is the only reason he was not sent to jail. He was a very sick man.


 




So the kid that has admitted that his parents made him lie to get the money is lying again? 


Only two charges were brought up against him and the fact that one of them has admitted to lying should give anyone pause in being so sure that the charges weren't made up.  It's not that difficult to bring charges up against anyone.




Accually against the wealthy and famouse it is. I wonder how many others brought it up before that.

Flag solfeggio July 18, 2009 6:39 PM EDT

river8101 is right.


The fact that any of this is being discussed at all shows that there was something going on with Jackson and little boys.  Where there's smoke, there's fire.  And I believe Bob Herbert was telling the truth in his NY Times editorial.


The fact is that children who are molested don't usually come forward or even tell their parents what happened to them.  They're afraid to do this, because they think it is their fault in some way.  So, even if the (probably) dozens of little boys who were molested by Jackson didn't talk about it, that doesn't mean it didn't happen.


What is also disgusting is the fact of parents actually telling their kids that it was all right for them to share a bed with a grown man!  My god, what kind of people were these parents that would sell out their kids' psychological peace of mind for MONEY!


Stop feeling sorry for Jackson, and focus on the children!  They're the ones who deserve people's sympathy.

Flag Andalublue July 18, 2009 6:55 PM EDT

This is like watching a body being buried at sea. You see the body fall over the side of the boat only to have it devoured by a school of ravening sharks. Or alternatively it reminds me of the ghouls who made the site of Princess Diana's accident a tourist attraction.


Let the man rest in peace. Don't turn him into a hero and don't make him into a devil. He was a human being, a very flawed one perhaps, a very telented one certainly, but a human being whose passing we should acknowledge and move on.

Flag world citizen July 18, 2009 9:51 PM EDT

Andalublue ~  Amen and thank you!!

Flag solfeggio July 19, 2009 1:13 AM EDT

So the death of a minor and minimally (at best) talented entertainment figure has been acknowledged...and acknowledged...and acknowledged ad infinitum!


I think what a lot of people (including me) find so irritating is the fact that other deaths, of much more deserving, talented, and truly good people, not to mention millions and millions of innocent animals, have not been acknowledged by anybody at all.


That's the way it is, unfortunately.  And I doubt anything will ever change.


Gets to a person, though, sometimes....


 

Flag Wmdkitty July 19, 2009 1:27 AM EDT

Because it bears repeating:


Flag Marcion July 19, 2009 10:13 AM EDT

Enough already with the Michael Jackson crap.


I don't know if he is in heaven, but wherever he is he is in the company of pedophile priests.

Flag donne July 19, 2009 10:34 AM EDT

How quick I've noticed everyone has become on how to judge Michael Jackson.. you get stories made up to sell tabloids and hear a little bit here and there and suddenly we are inside the guys head and heart and soul and know him better than anyone.. Have you thought about this.. You got a kid whos family is brain washing him to tell a little fib so they all can get alot of money.. and the only way to get it all over with quickly is to throw a few dollars at them.. OK alot of dollars.. laywers want their small part, and do some damage control and get on with trying to get the people to love you again.. NO ONE knows what someone's life is like until they walk in their shoes.. I say get your own life in order before you start judging someone elses.


And when did we start a 'rating system' for mourning? again the only reason you hear about Michael Js death is because it sell.. you watch CBS.. they charge more for air time.. it sells.. 


Let's keep our eyes on the problems and people we can help and do something about.. again the devil as got us running in circles and not helping one another.


Peace,


Donne

Flag Andalublue July 19, 2009 11:32 AM EDT

Well said, Donne. Amen to that and Namaste to you. I shall not be visiting this thread again as I fear for my karma, and that of everyone else.


Andalublue

Flag rabello July 19, 2009 11:34 AM EDT

Whether or not Michael Jackson is a "legend" is purely a matter of personal opinion.  Elton John was as flamboyant but a much more innately talented artist, a legend if you will, but that, of course, is purely a matter of personal opinion.    Pink Floyd forged new breakthroughs, and not by jumping up and down with "don't stop till you get enough" 


Personally, I was more interested in the 5 min blurb I heard about Nelson Mendela on CNN, or the 20 min segment about Walter Cronkite's life and work, also on CNN. 


No repeated, hour-long, program after program of those 2 men, though.  No comments from people like Madonna ("I can't stop crying") or Elizabeth Taylor ("I can't speak") or Diana Ross ("I am devastated") over those stories, either.    As if what Madonna has to say, or Liz Taylor for that matter, is weighty enough to be announced on the official news programs, over and over again.


There would have been much less judgment about "The King of Pop" if the stories had been confined to where they belong -- on shows like "Showbiz Tonight" or "Inside Edition" -- so that people who care what Madonna thinks could find & watch it, and those who wanted to hear about what was happening at the very same time in Iran, as just one example, would have been able to hear that (instead of what Madonna feels about everything)

Flag Stardove July 19, 2009 2:37 PM EDT

MJ's Explosive Pepsi Shoot Video -- 25 Years Later


The video, obtained by US Magazine, shows exactly what went down when a pyrotechnic mishap ended in Michael's scalp being scorched.

After the accident, Jackson became addicted to painkillers.




Michael's hair caught fire on the 6th taping of a Pepsi Commercial.  If only they had stopped at the 5th take who can say what direction Michael's life would have taken?  Maybe no painkiller would have been in his future.

Flag Tmarie64 July 19, 2009 2:50 PM EDT

Yes, blame Pepsi...  Of course, never mind the thousands of people SERIOUSLY burned... burned to the point that they don't GET pain killers because the drugs would just ooze out of their bodies because the skin is gone.


Yeah, he was so special that ONE incident with pain killers caused the entire downfall of his life.


Sorry, not buying it.  I, personally, know 4 people who were burned over 70 percent of their bodies... they weren't wheeled into an ambulance with their little one glitter glove and tux.  Not one of them is a drug addict, every one of them is grateful for their lives.


He chose not to seek rehab.  He chose to live his life as he did.  His doctors chose money over ethics.  It's not the commercial's fault, nor is it the fault of Pepsi.... He knew there were pyrotechnics and he knew just how flammable jerry-curl is.  It was an accident.


I just hope and pray that someone sane gets those kids.  They don't need to be with his parents, they showed they are incapable of raising kids without abusing them.


Joe is ALREADY musing on their "careers"...


Though his own son has yet to be buried, the always forward looking Joe Jackson said of the children and their possible show business careers – “I don't know. I keep watching Paris. She wants to do something. And as far as I can see, well, they say Blanket, he can really dance.” 



Their father isn't even in the ground and this old b*stard is ALREADY planning on how to use/abuse these kids to make himself rich.

Flag river8101 July 19, 2009 3:40 PM EDT

Bill Maher said it best on Real Time:


The reason America mourned Michael Jackson so intensely--or as Maher put, "lost its "collective chit" over Jackson--was because, well, "Michael Jackson is America." Maher argued that this was the case by suggesting that both America and Jackson could be described as "fragile, over-indulgent, childish, in debt, on drugs, and over the hill."



I agree.

Flag Wmdkitty July 19, 2009 6:11 PM EDT

Of the whole lot, Janet seems to be the most stable -- she should get the kids.

Flag Tmarie64 July 19, 2009 6:34 PM EDT

Jul 19, 2009 -- 6:11PM, Wmdkitty wrote:


Of the whole lot, Janet seems to be the most stable -- she should get the kids.




I could not agree more.

Flag solfeggio July 19, 2009 11:48 PM EDT

rabello -


Excellent post.  You've summed up the whole sorry spectacle beautifully.


But also:


That comment by river81801 which is a quote from Bill Maher was very interesting.  Do Americans truly believe that they really are 'in debt, on drugs, and over the hill?'  If so, this is a shocking observation about a country that was always thought of as a world leader, the 'land of the free and home of the brave,' a place of safety for immigrants, and a nation led by good and honest men.


What happened???


 

Flag jane2 July 20, 2009 1:32 AM EDT

Jul 19, 2009 -- 11:48PM, solfeggio wrote:


rabello -


Excellent post.  You've summed up the whole sorry spectacle beautifully.


But also:


That comment by river81801 which is a quote from Bill Maher was very interesting.  Do Americans truly believe that they really are 'in debt, on drugs, and over the hill?'  If so, this is a shocking observation about a country that was always thought of as a world leader, the 'land of the free and home of the brave,' a place of safety for immigrants, and a nation led by good and honest men.


What happened???


 




Bill Maher can be funny but he isn't always on target. On this he was just "Blowin in the Wind". His stock and trade is dragging down.


I remember a quote attributed to both Benjamin Franklin and John Adams from Paris over two hundred years ago: the French work to live and the Americans live to work.


We aren't always led by good and honest men, but often we are within the human scope. I didn't think the Dubya (G.W.Bush) administration was good or honest.


Funny thing is most Americans have never really wished to be the world leader: no one else could or would do it. It has cost us very dearly.


Today we celebrate the US landing on the moon.That may be symbolic but the space race wasn't. Talk about the New Frontier!! Nuclear weapons are no joke either.


Bill Maher is a comic, nothing more nor less. We don't take him seriously.

Flag Girlchristian July 20, 2009 9:19 AM EDT

Jul 19, 2009 -- 6:11PM, Wmdkitty wrote:


Of the whole lot, Janet seems to be the most stable -- she should get the kids.





I heard this morning that she has volunteered to take them.

Flag rabello July 20, 2009 9:42 AM EDT

Jul 19, 2009 -- 11:48PM, solfeggio wrote:


rabello -


Excellent post.  You've summed up the whole sorry spectacle beautifully.


But also:


That comment by river81801 which is a quote from Bill Maher was very interesting.  Do Americans truly believe that they really are 'in debt, on drugs, and over the hill?'  If so, this is a shocking observation about a country that was always thought of as a world leader, the 'land of the free and home of the brave,' a place of safety for immigrants, and a nation led by good and honest men.


What happened???


 




Thank you, solfeggio.  For me, and I think many others, it was at first rather shocking to go from relatively in-depth coverage of what was happening to the people in Iran to wall-to-wall coverage of MJ, with the same, sensationalized stories repeated over and over again.   Coverage switched, in the blink of an eye, from the Iranian woman (Nedia was it?) gunned down on the streets of Tehran (was it?) to news that Madonna can't stop crying.  It, then became irritating and then offensive to find the celebrity broadcasters talking about the same thing, in those hushed tones, every single time you turned on the news to see what was happening in the world -- like the Pakistani civilians killed by another American drone.  Had to find out about that by looking online.


Anyway, in terms of Bill Maher's comment, you asked:


"Do Americans truly believe that they really are 'in debt, on drugs, and over the hill?' 


No, quite the opposite, Americans don't recognize themselves in that description, which aptly included "fragile, over-indulgent, childish."    It's part of the "dumbing down" of America, much of which is due to what our celebrity news readers and their corporate sponsors in their vapid, manipulative commercials (which, in America, get almost as much air time as the "news," itself) choose to inform us of in their 30 second sound bytes.    Most of us believe "they hate us for our freedoms" because some beautiful person on the tube told us so.

Flag Cesmom July 20, 2009 10:11 AM EDT

Jul 16, 2009 -- 5:47PM, Ken wrote:


Jul 16, 2009 -- 5:11PM, solfeggio wrote:


Unfortunately, Jackson is thought of as something of a hero in my country (New Zealand), and there was even a poll taken recently in which an overwhelming number of respondents actually thought there should be some sort of memorial to this perverted creep!


Since when did a passé song-and-dance man qualify as hero? Nowadays people will call anyone a hero.





He wasn't a hero.  He was just extremely talented and many people adored him.  Because he was well-liked, those who thought highly of him also would like to believe he was innocent of at least most of the things he was accused of.  Although there is too much evidence to say that he was completely innocent of all of the allegations, I would like to believe he was not guilty of many of the things that he was accused of doing.  I know some of the 'conspiracy theories' about these kids being fed information and coached may seem a bit far-fetched, but it's not impossible.  He was a very rich and very troubled man, and I can see people trying to use that for their own gain.  It's already been proven that the motives for at least some of the charges were financially driven.

Flag appy20 July 20, 2009 10:17 AM EDT

"fragile, over-indulgent, childish, in debt, on drugs, and over the hill.""


Don't you think this applies to Bill Maher more than the rest of us? I don't know about drugs or debt but while I do love him as a commentator, I have always thought he was sort of in arrested development.

Flag Hannahbeth_2009 July 20, 2009 7:07 PM EDT

I hope and pray that Michael is with our good Lord who really knew him better then any of us did.  He was so troubled by alot of things in his life! This is something God knew and he took him out of it, but then there are those three heartbroken children he had to leave behind.... I just pray they end up with someone they know and someone who will bring them up the way they should be brought up in.   Some are saying Janet would be good for this job, some are saying they need their real mother, and I think thats true! So if Debbie Rowe gets these children then thats good... cause every child needs their mother... no matter what was set up in between Michael and Debbie at the time they slipt ways, those are still her children too! I'm not saying that Mrs. Katherine shouldn't be cut off from these kids either.... she's just old and raising kids takes alot of time and energy something she doesn't have alot of these days.  ( I mean no disresecpt to Mrs. Katherene or any of the Jackson clan) by saying all this  it is the truth though!  sorry I didn't mean to write something this long either, my thoughts got away from me.   Laughing

Flag solfeggio July 21, 2009 12:45 AM EDT

Rabello's observation that news in America has become 'infotainment' was apt.  We've been able to see the CBS Evening News and the ABC News (but not NBC because they don't broadcast Down Under) for years, back to the days of Dan Rather as anchor of one and Peter Jennings as the anchor of the other.  And, if I think back to their broadcasts, I do believe that there really was more 'hard' news covered, and in more depth, than we see today with Charlie and Katie.


Also, although the programmes claim to be covering the world, they invariably focus on strictly American stories, some of which are pure fluff.   


And there is no comparison between today's news coverage to that of the late Walter Cronkite.


Our local news broadcasts here are pretty much the same: Lots of sports coverage, and plenty of human interest stuff, and not much world news.


For world news we go to CNN or BBC, because they do have indepth reports from remote parts of the world (Christiane Amanpour is great), as well as analysis (from people like Anderson Cooper) which gives much-needed insight into what is happened in the Middle East and other nations.


In any case, I'm sure that, in future, the hysterical Jackson death coverage phenomenon will be studied by sociologists to see what, exactly, triggered it, and why it has gone on so long.  I remember when President Kennedy was killed, and the news blitz that engendered, and how an avalanche of books about JFK and his family soon followed.


Everybody got awfully tired of hearing about Kennedys but, after all, he was the President, and a very popular president at that.  And he'd been murdered in cold blood.  So it was understandable that there would be a lot of words written and spoken about the event.


Anyway, where Jackson was concerned, it really did seem for a couple of weeks that you couldn't turn on a news broadcast or look at a magazine cover without some mention of the fellow, and we did begin to wonder where it would all end!


Regarding Bill Maher:


Since we don't get the channel that carries Bill Maher's programme, the only times we've caught him were when he was on Larry King.  But we always thought he was very funny and on the mark with his acerbic wit.  I wish we would have been able to see Leno, because the few times we saw him on TV, he seemed very funny, too.  We do get Letterman, and he's good, too, though.


As long as the comics can keep on poking fun at the politicians, you know things will be all right.

Flag appy20 July 21, 2009 9:09 AM EDT

I love Bill Maher and agree with him more than I disagree.   However, as a man, he is of somewhat, imo, arrested development.   But.  I support anyone's right to arrested development.  LOL  It takes all kinds.  As long as one kind doesn't totally dictate to the rest of us, that is a strength, not a weakness.

Flag Valentine July 21, 2009 11:00 AM EDT

It is my belief that Michael Jackson made peace with God before he made his exit.


Now, it is my hope that people will allow his name and stardom to rest in peace.

Flag Stardove July 21, 2009 1:41 PM EDT

Jun 29, 2009 -- 6:11PM, Stardove wrote:


I certainly called this one.  I told my husband I believed the rehearsal was videoed the night before Michael died and would come out.  See the link.


www.mtv.com/news/articles/1614882/200906...


Entertainment industry Web site The Wrap reports that Jackson's final rehearsal at the Staples Center on Wednesday was recorded in multi-camera, high-definition video and multi-track audio.




And the bidding has begun.


Sony bids $50 million for Jackson rehearsal film


Sony Corp.'s movie studio has bid $50 million to acquire the worldwide distribution rights to a film based on rehearsal footage for Michael Jackson's "This Is It" comeback concert series, according to a person familiar with the bid.


More at link.  It was bound to happen.



Flag Svetlana July 21, 2009 2:39 PM EDT

At only about a week older than I am, Michael Jackson was most emphatically NOT over the hill!  Have we all got that straight now???

Flag Stardove July 21, 2009 9:43 PM EDT

Will the family ever put the son/brother to rest?  Michael is still not buried.


Cemetery too 'bad' for Michael Jackson


I'm beginning to think Jermaine Jackson may have a loose screw.  What clearly come through is some of the family is going to try to make some money by doing shows now that their brother is dead.  In four days it will be one month and still no decision has been made as to where to bury the body.


JERMAINE Jackson is still pushing for his brother Michael to be laid to rest at Neverland, saying he shouldn't be buried with "bad people".



Flag river8101 July 22, 2009 8:14 AM EDT

Stardove:


Your link has mysteriously disappeared.  Hummm.

Flag river8101 July 22, 2009 8:38 AM EDT

My remarks by Bill Maher, were all I could find in print, and in thinking back I think it was in New Rules not Real Time.  There was quite abit more, and it was right on point, but I can't find it in print.  I remember when his New Rules were always out in print.  Now everything's on You Tube.  I'd rather read it, copy and save it, then only see it on film.


For those who might think some of us are of the "non religious" variety, because we aren't talking about God, prayer, and heaven etc. I think Jackson, or what's left of him by now, should be cremated, and then they can bury him wherever they please.  I guess they wouldn't make as much money that way though. Or they could put his ashes in a gold vase, and charge people to walk by.   It would save the whole crazy family some buriel expenses.  And believe me, they are all a bunch of crazy people.  The courts, if they had a bit of sense, would remove those children from that horrible enviornment ASAP.

Flag appy20 July 22, 2009 2:43 PM EDT

Did they ever find his body?  I have been able to avoid the latest on him but I am curious about that.  LOL

Flag Stardove July 22, 2009 2:57 PM EDT

Jul 22, 2009 -- 8:14AM, river8101 wrote:


Stardove:


Your link has mysteriously disappeared.  Hummm.



It worked for me just now.


***http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,25818873-5006343,00.html?from=public_rss***


You can copy and paste, if the link is not working for you. ( leave off the ***s)


Weirdness on Beliefnet.  Sealed


 


Appy, I am not sure where the coffin with his body is being hidden.  It was in crypt belonging to someone outside of the family, but word got out where it was and I believe it was moved.


Cremation would be a good way to go.  Then all the family could all have some ashes and tiny bones.  Some might even decide to sell the cremains.  *eyes roll* (cat litter might work as a scam)


On the boob tube last night I saw where some families are not claiming bodies, because of the cost of burial or cremation.  The one business which should not be affected by the economy, since we are all going to die someday seems to be taking a hit. 


Figures on costs from show:


Normal burial $7,500.00, but a whole lot more could be spent.  Does a gold coffin sound familiar?


Cremation $1,000.00

Flag river8101 July 22, 2009 4:08 PM EDT

Sorry Stardove,


YOur link still doesn't work for me.   In fact often my own links don't work.  Ever since they changed this forum from the one before this one, I've had trouble posting links.

Flag river8101 July 22, 2009 4:10 PM EDT

This not knowing where or how to bury a body is the weirdest thing I've ever heard of.   They're supposed to belong to a church.  Can't they get some advice from them?   Maybe they think if they wait long enough, he'll return.

Flag appy20 July 22, 2009 4:53 PM EDT

Is it even legal to tote a body all over the place like a handbag?

Flag Stardove July 22, 2009 5:04 PM EDT

Jul 22, 2009 -- 4:08PM, river8101 wrote:


Sorry Stardove,


YOur link still doesn't work for me.   In fact often my own links don't work.  Ever since they changed this forum from the one before this one, I've had trouble posting links.




Please report this to Staff at community@beliefnetstaff.com.  Yesterday I finally reported at times there are glitches in making of links.  Most of the time links work like they should, but I experienced a number of times lately where the title and URL address both show up.

Jul 22, 2009 -- 4:10PM, river8101 wrote:


This not knowing where or how to bury a body is the weirdest thing I've ever heard of.   They're supposed to belong to a church.  Can't they get some advice from them?   Maybe they think if they wait long enough, he'll return.



The family is fighting over the where part of the burial.  Too bad Michael did not express his wishes.

Flag jane2 July 22, 2009 5:25 PM EDT

This family is too bizarre--not that this is news!!


And today the LAPD and drug enforcement officers raided an office of the doctor who was with MJ when he was dying. According to a Google report People Magazine is talking about a possible manslaughter charge.

Flag WHITEWIND July 22, 2009 8:24 PM EDT

WHY DON'T THEY JUST CREMATE MICHAEL--THAT WAY THEY WILL BE ABLE TO PLACE HIM ANYWHERE HIS MOTHER WANTS!!  OTHERWISE, HE WILL BECOME A SIDE SHOW IN DEATH AND HIS PRIVACY THAT HE SO CHERISHED WILL BE MADE A MOCKERY OF.  NO GRAVE SITE WILL EVER BE FREE OF ABUSES.  RIP MJ --YOUR LIFE--YOUR SOUL--IS NOW IN GOD'S HANDS.  HOPEFULLY, YOUR BODY WILL BE RESTED SOON AS WELL!!  THANKS FOR THE DANCE!!

Flag whirlinggal July 22, 2009 10:19 PM EDT

Whitewind--Hi and welcome to the bnet boards.


It looks like you are new to the internet and you need to know that when you post in all capital letters it is the same as shouting if you were talking to someone face to face.


It's considered to be a "rude" thing to do and you will probably get negative comment about it.


Please post your thoughts here--everyone is encouraged to do so.


Sending good thoughts your way.


 

Flag jane2 July 22, 2009 11:58 PM EDT

Jul 22, 2009 -- 8:24PM, WHITEWIND wrote:


WHY DON'T THEY JUST CREMATE MICHAEL--THAT WAY THEY WILL BE ABLE TO PLACE HIM ANYWHERE HIS MOTHER WANTS!!  OTHERWISE, HE WILL BECOME A SIDE SHOW IN DEATH AND HIS PRIVACY THAT HE SO CHERISHED WILL BE MADE A MOCKERY OF.  NO GRAVE SITE WILL EVER BE FREE OF ABUSES.  RIP MJ --YOUR LIFE--YOUR SOUL--IS NOW IN GOD'S HANDS.  HOPEFULLY, YOUR BODY WILL BE RESTED SOON AS WELL!!  THANKS FOR THE DANCE!!




What we don't know about all this is amazing. My own faith at one time forbid cremation; it no longer does. But I had my husband buried and I will be buried next to him. His funeral was public but his burial was private with our pastor presiding. Our oldest graqndson sat next to me a the burial service.

Flag solfeggio July 23, 2009 12:11 AM EDT

Once the 'spirit' or 'soul' or essence of life - or whatever you want to call it - has left the material body, then the body itself is of no more use to anyone.  The best thing for bodies, then, would be to simply cremate them and either put the ashes in a little box (as we did with our beloved cat) or let them blow away in the wind.


My father's ashes are in a vase that my brother and his wife keep on a mantelpiece, which seems a little weird to me for some reason.  But, then, I'm no one to talk, because we have our cat's box of ashes on a window ledge, with a photo of the cat in a little frame on top.  For some reason, I like to look at that little box and the photo.  It's as if our cat is still with us in some way.


But, still, they're just ashes.


On the other hand, people like to walk around graveyards and look at headstones and think about the people who might be buried under them, especially if you're strolling around a cemetary where you know some well-known person is buried.  And, if you've got your own ancestors buried in a family group that goes back to the 19th century, you look at the names of those people who came before you, and this is a moving experience.


Of course, plain common sense tells you that, after so many years, there cannot be much left of your ancestors' earthly remains.


One of my friends said once that, when she dies (hopefully not for many years yet), they can put her body out with the trash as far as she's concerned!  Because she certainly would have no use for it anymore.

Flag river8101 July 23, 2009 6:23 AM EDT

Stardove,


I have reported it, many times, but it didn't do any good.  They didn't even answer.  I was having all kinds of problems with BNet. One day all my avatars and pictures disappeared.  I wrote to them about it, (several times) but they never answered.  My son came over and got them all back, but then a couple weeks later, I clicked something and they all disappeared again.  My computer worked fine everywhere else. 


About a month ago, I bought a new Mac, but Bnet still has bugs in it.  Posting links being one of them.  And I know it's not my computer 'cause it works fine everywhere except here.

Flag Girlchristian July 23, 2009 12:11 PM EDT

Jul 22, 2009 -- 4:10PM, river8101 wrote:


This not knowing where or how to bury a body is the weirdest thing I've ever heard of.   They're supposed to belong to a church.  Can't they get some advice from them?   Maybe they think if they wait long enough, he'll return.




It's not weird when you consider the reaction to his death.  MJ was very private, but his fans won't respect that.  Any place his family buries him will be found out and then it will become a spectacle. 

Flag Marcion July 23, 2009 12:34 PM EDT

Enough with the Michael Jackson crap already!

Flag appy20 July 23, 2009 1:21 PM EDT

Jul 22, 2009 -- 5:04PM, Stardove wrote:


Jul 22, 2009 -- 4:08PM, river8101 wrote:


Sorry Stardove,


YOur link still doesn't work for me.   In fact often my own links don't work.  Ever since they changed this forum from the one before this one, I've had trouble posting links.




Please report this to Staff at community@beliefnetstaff.com.  Yesterday I finally reported at times there are glitches in making of links.  Most of the time links work like they should, but I experienced a number of times lately where the title and URL address both show up.

Jul 22, 2009 -- 4:10PM, river8101 wrote:


This not knowing where or how to bury a body is the weirdest thing I've ever heard of.   They're supposed to belong to a church.  Can't they get some advice from them?   Maybe they think if they wait long enough, he'll return.



The family is fighting over the where part of the burial.  Too bad Michael did not express his wishes.




 


You might check your pop up blocker.  Or No Script.  They may need turning off.

Flag Svetlana July 23, 2009 2:04 PM EDT

Jul 23, 2009 -- 12:34PM, Marcion wrote:


Enough with the Michael Jackson crap already!



Don't talk to US.  Take it up with whomever is forcing you to open and read threads you know you're not interested in.  I pity you about that.  The rest of us have a choice not to read what we don't like.

Flag appy20 July 23, 2009 4:37 PM EDT

Yeah, Marcion, move on.  Even I want to know where the freaking body is.  LOL

Flag drawout July 23, 2009 6:19 PM EDT

Gidget, the Taco Bell Mascot and star of Beverly Hills Chihuahua Died recently. I have unplugged my TV in anticipation of the non stop media coverage that is sure to ensue. movin on


Flag solfeggio July 23, 2009 6:27 PM EDT

I agree with Marcion: Enough with the little bugger already!


However, like others who couldn't care less about Jackson, I nevertheless continue to revisit this thread out of some sort of morbid curiosity, I guess.  I can't think why else.


I mean, you've got this famous guy where, even after several autopsies, there is still no documented cause of death, and whose body has seemingly disappeared.  This is about as weird as it gets!




Flag jane2 July 23, 2009 8:04 PM EDT

Jul 23, 2009 -- 12:11AM, solfeggio wrote:


Once the 'spirit' or 'soul' or essence of life - or whatever you want to call it - has left the material body, then the body itself is of no more use to anyone.  The best thing for bodies, then, would be to simply cremate them and either put the ashes in a little box (as we did with our beloved cat) or let them blow away in the wind.


My father's ashes are in a vase that my brother and his wife keep on a mantelpiece, which seems a little weird to me for some reason.  But, then, I'm no one to talk, because we have our cat's box of ashes on a window ledge, with a photo of the cat in a little frame on top.  For some reason, I like to look at that little box and the photo.  It's as if our cat is still with us in some way.


But, still, they're just ashes.


On the other hand, people like to walk around graveyards and look at headstones and think about the people who might be buried under them, especially if you're strolling around a cemetary where you know some well-known person is buried.  And, if you've got your own ancestors buried in a family group that goes back to the 19th century, you look at the names of those people who came before you, and this is a moving experience.


Of course, plain common sense tells you that, after so many years, there cannot be much left of your ancestors' earthly remains.


One of my friends said once that, when she dies (hopefully not for many years yet), they can put her body out with the trash as far as she's concerned!  Because she certainly would have no use for it anymore.




I think after death solutions to burial and creamation are often informed by family tradition. There are plots in my grandparents' burial area that will not be used but my parents, my father's parents, at least one aunt is buried there. There is a traditional large gravestone there in a very old Catholic cemetary.


My mother's mother was the oldest of 11, only 3 of whom lived to adulthood. When I was a small child that grandmother would take us with her to visit the cemetary. She respected us as children and we respected her visiting graves. It wasn't sad.


I still have a dried rose from the blanket of roses I bought for my husband's casket. He is buried in a Catholic section of a prominent local cemetary. There is also a military section.


Funerals and burials are for the living. So are memorials.


The whole MJ scene is just plain weird.


 

Flag Silverada July 23, 2009 10:46 PM EDT

RIP Michael Jackson I hope you find in your after life experience  happyness and fulfillment .


 


My concern is that MJ faithfull fans make of him a subject of worship, Surprised some of his videos make him look as a very  powerful superbeing.  Check out Earth Song, he resemble a very angry semi-God reverting all wrong doing .Embarassed

Flag Stardove July 23, 2009 11:00 PM EDT

For those wanting the latest information concerning Michael's estate, children and money making deals this site has plenty to share.  Be sure to scroll at the site.


www.tmz.com/category/michael-jackson/


 


If you'd have enough of MJ, don't click.  Tongue out

Flag Stardove July 24, 2009 1:24 PM EDT

New flash of the day (at least for me) Michael had an older love child.


Omer Bhatti : Michael Jackson-Pia Bhatti Love Child


A mysterious man who was given a front row seat to the memorial to the late King of Pop has been named as Omer Bhatti, Michael Jackson's love child.


You can search the name Omer Bhatti and find all kinds of stories.  The above link has pictures comparing Jackson and Bhatti around the same age.  Also a picture of him on the front row of Memorial.  Jackson death is the story that just keeps on giving.  I also read of a DNA would be done to satisfy the Jackson family.


Click here for pictures of Omer and Jackson when Omer was a child.

Flag appy20 July 24, 2009 1:40 PM EDT

Have they done the DNA already?  The last I heard is that he was going to pursue DNA testing.

Flag Stardove July 24, 2009 2:03 PM EDT

Jul 24, 2009 -- 1:40PM, appy20 wrote:


Have they done the DNA already?  The last I heard is that he was going to pursue DNA testing.




I don't believe the test has been done.  Jermaine is the brother I saw quoted if a DNA test shows the young man is a Jackson he would be accepted into the family.


From another site:


Omer Bhatti is allegedly convinced that he is Jackson’s son and is "desperate" for a DNA test to prove it. Sounds far fetched to say the least, but they were definitely acquainted. Interestingly, he was spotted yesterday at the Jackson home.

Flag Merope July 27, 2009 11:48 PM EDT

Michael Jackson's personal doctor administered propofol -- a powerful anesthetic -- to help Jackson sleep, and authorities believe the drug killed him, a law enforcement official told the AP today.  Story here.


The official -- who spoke anonymously because the investigation is still ongoing -- said Jackson regularly received propofol to sleep, relying on the drug like an alarm clock. A doctor would administer it when he went to sleep, then stop the intravenous drip when he wanted to wake up. On June 25, the day Jackson died, Dr. Conrad Murray -- a cardiologist who was serving as Jackson's personal physician -- gave him the drug through an IV sometime after midnight, the official said.


Although toxicology reports are pending, investigators are working under the theory that propofol caused Jackson's heart to stop, the official said.  Jackson is believed to have been using the drug for about two years and investigators are trying to determine how many other doctors administered it, the official said.


The official said that when police arrived on the scene shortly after Jackson's death, they found propofol and other drugs in Jackson's home.  An IV line and three tanks of oxygen were in the room where Jackson slept; 15 more oxygen tanks were in a security guard's shack.


Propofol can depress breathing, lower the heart rate, and lower blood pressure.  Because of the risks, propofol is only supposed to be administered in medical settings by trained personnel.  Instructions on the drug's package warn that patients must be continuously monitored, and that equipment to maintain breathing, provide artificial ventilation, and administer oxygen if needed "must be immediately available."


Dr. Zeev Kain -- who heads the anesthesiology department at UC Irvine Medical Center -- said he has never encountered a situation where propofol was given in a home to help someone sleep.  His professional opinion is that prescribing/administering propfol at home to help someone sleep would constitute malpractice.


So this is huge.  I knew Jackson's death would turn out to be related to meds inappropriately prescribed and administered.  It's the Elvis Presley scenario all over again.


It's not clear whether Dr. Murray is a suspect in the investigation, which is now a criminal investigation.  Jackson had been taking propofol for two years, so it's suspected that other prescribing/administering physicians and/or health care providers are involved.


 

Flag Girlchristian July 28, 2009 12:33 PM EDT

Jul 24, 2009 -- 2:03PM, Stardove wrote:


Jul 24, 2009 -- 1:40PM, appy20 wrote:


Have they done the DNA already?  The last I heard is that he was going to pursue DNA testing.




I don't believe the test has been done.  Jermaine is the brother I saw quoted if a DNA test shows the young man is a Jackson he would be accepted into the family.


From another site:


Omer Bhatti is allegedly convinced that he is Jackson’s son and is "desperate" for a DNA test to prove it. Sounds far fetched to say the least, but they were definitely acquainted. Interestingly, he was spotted yesterday at the Jackson home.




I heard on the radio yesterday that Omer is someone that MJ was good friends with and treated him as if he were a son and that's why he sat with the family.  They were reporting that he is not MJ's biological son.

Flag Merope August 4, 2009 2:54 PM EDT

This thread was moved from the Hot Topics Zone.


Note that while a relaxed (site-wide) ROC standard applied to the discussion on that forum, the tighter forum ROCs apply to discussion from this point forward.



Merope
Beliefnet Community Host
Hot Topics Zone

Flag Bucky143 September 6, 2009 2:42 PM EDT

Jun 26, 2009 -- 7:59AM, Tmarie64 wrote:


Jun 25, 2009 -- 7:53PM, Mlyons619 wrote:


How do you KNOW nobody else can get into the ER?




DUH!  Because they SAID SO.  Did you not go to the link I provided?  Did you not read the quoted snippet?  Open your eyes, clean your glasses, it's right there in black and white.


Ignore the scandals?  Kate, you sound like the bishops of the Catholic church!




Flag Kd5icr November 7, 2009 10:01 AM EST

So what he/it is dead. He/it didnt do a thing to better my life. he/it never paid a bill for me. His/it's life is no more important than any other person alive today. I cant wait untill I can turn on tv and not here that sickos name.

Flag Chips November 9, 2009 7:04 PM EST
I thought the question was about if Michael Jackson went to heaven.  The truth is, if Michael Jackson was not born again, he certainly did not go to heaven.  The Lord Jesus Christ said as recorded in the New Testament book of John in chapter 3 verse 3,  "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."   The Lord Jesus went on to say in verse 5, that unless a man was born of  water and of the Spirit {Holy Spirit} he couldn't even enter the kingdom of God.   There is no other place to go except hell, and the bible does not teach of purgatory, purgatory is a false, damnable doctrine, and there is no limbo. Now I have never known of Michael Jackson to be born again, and he probably wasn't, because if he was, everybody would know it, and he wouldn't have been as popular as he was, he wouldn't have been so loved by the secular crowd.  I heard he was of the Jehovah's Witness persuasion, well, I know for a fact that the Jehovah's Witnesses are not christian, it is a cult, they do not really believe in the Lord Jesus, and a true born again person cannot have any part of the Jehovah's Witness. I believe that Michael Jackson is in hell. It is tragic because the Lord Jesus died to pay for his sins, but unless a person receives the Lord Jesus into his or her heart and life, they can not and will not enter heaven. So again I say, that if Michael Jackson was not born again, he is not in heaven.
Flag Preachtheword December 1, 2011 11:41 AM EST

NO! MICHAEL JACKSON SOLD HIS SOUL TO THE DEVIL AT A VERY YOYNG AGE. THE DEVIL OFFERS US MONEY, FAME, AND A DECEITFUL LIFE-STYLE, AND GOD GIVES US A CHOICE, WHETHER TO ACCEPT IT OR NOT! JACKSON WAS YOUNG, AND DID NOT KNOW THE TRUTH ABOUT GOD, LIKE MANY OTHERS(IN THE WORLD)!


BUT FOR DESTRUCTION, LIES, AND DEATH! KNOWING NOT TO ACCEOT IT, JACKSON IS NOW IN HELL, NOW UNDERSTANDING WHAT HE SHOULD HAVE DID! AND THAT, ALL THE TIME THE TRUTH WAS IN JESUS THE CHRIST! AND THAT JESUS IS THE SOURCE TO EVERY HUMAN-BEING.

Flag Estacia July 5, 2012 11:15 AM EDT

No Preach!!!


MJ "father" "soul his soul to the devil" Not MJ himself!!!


The this man rest. His  time here is done.

Flag Estacia August 28, 2012 3:25 AM EDT

Patricklongworth,


I enjoy this site very much being I have been able to share and learn from other members.


At the sametime, What I have learned from other members is this,


Nothing supises me anymore.


There are so many people who are angry with themselves that they take it out on others they do not know.


Ex: MJ


other internet members.


Yes, It is truely sad how people treat each other.


Online, in real life.


I suppose that could be why I myself does not leave my home unless I must have to.


Yes,


Many on here do claim Christainity, but do not follow nor really study the law of it.


What I can and will continue to do is be the very best person I can be.


God Bless.



 

Flag Atrayo July 16, 2013 10:13 PM EDT

Hello There,


I wrote this on my blog site "Atrayo's Oracle" back on April of this year as a tribute to the memory of "Michael Jackson".


atrayosoracle.blogspot.com/2013/04/jewel...


-----------------------------------


(Reposted here for your leisure.)


Jewels of Truth Statement: "In Memory To The King of Pop Michael Jackson"



Hello All,

Since this "Jewels of Truth" statement is more so a memorial away from my ordinary writings. Please keep in mind I'm a kindred spirit to all souls that maintain a youthful demeanor in spirit. Often the term that is used is that of a Man Child this is one reason why I'm an avid gamer. Aside from all this I wanted to attempt to write posthumously a statement or memorial to "Michael Joseph Jackson". At least in my perspective he was / is a living role model in how to maintain one's youthful spirit forever young. No matter the difficulty that life throws across our path his artistic fervor remained strong for us all to enjoy.

1469) Not all children are fortunate to live the life of merriment in times of youth. Life and work make demands which are so costly that shall not be ignored. It may seem fewer still can achieve renowned artistry and begin to live their lives backward. Enjoying their youth only when fully an adult as deemed by society.

Michael Jackson, the "King of Pop" or popular music was one such soul. Innocent with the heart of a child with the outlook of a multi talented genius. He achieved what few dared to dream for themselves alone. He was a man child in spirit, he was seen by others as an eccentric. Nonetheless as his life rose to stardom his child like spirit remained the same. Michael adored "Peter Pan" the fictional character even altering his visage to resemble the Immortal Boy of "Neverland".

Those seeking to misunderstand "Michael Jackson" had it easy. Those who adored and loved Michael had it harder in understanding him. Still we loved Michael because he was Michael, not just as a celebrity. He proved many wonders are a reality, even in spite of the heartaches he endured. He loved children as a truly kindred soul should for his spirit was amongst them always. His talents rose higher and higher whilst remaining true to himself and his own ideals.

The world shall always misunderstand greatness since so few ever achieve it within a lifetime. Many of his dreams became our own through the vocation of his generous spirit for music and the arts in general. For this our society today, and the one to come born of our children shall be eternally grateful. Those of us with kindred child like innocence even more so shall remember thee "Michael Jackson" as the "King of Neverland". Amen. ---Ivan Pozo-Illas / Atrayo.



Flag rideronthastorm July 31, 2013 1:23 AM EDT

You know I really appreciate this post alot. My name is Elizabeth and Im 46, when I was a child 4 5 and 6;


 The Jackson 5 were popular. We had  a few of the singles and we watched the performances on tv and as a child my sister had me sitting in front of the tv every week watching the animated show. As a teen being raised in the 80s of course I saw ,lots of groundbreaking first time performances including seeing him do Billie Jean for the first time and also Thriller.


 I had  afew of his albums but I wasnt  a big enough fan to really really collect alot of his stuf although I still pick up his music and The Jackson 5 quite often on youtube and sometimes watch Janet Jackson and her show.


 


But anyways not only do I agree with you but I can also relate on a serious level.I was hospitalized for 3 years in psych wards because of my mental health issues in my teen years and not only that but my Mom was somewhat obsessed with my mental health. 


She was set on the idea that I was either ADD or learning disabled even though the school district said I wasnt she was drinking heavily in those years too and she liked trendy psychiatric issue with children.


She spent a huge amount of time sending me to docters and psychiatrists through my youth years, when I came out of the hospitals at 16 and tried to finish high school Mesquite school district did not want to accept an ex psych pateint in their schools basically told me to go back to the psych wards so i dropped out and completly missed out on my youth.


 


tobecontinued

Flag rideronthastorm July 31, 2013 1:33 AM EDT

I am unusually young somewhat dislexic and bipolar and sometimes I blame my unusual youth on that I not only have a youth mentality but also look really young and have a young voice. i  not only like pathfinder d and d and sometimes play but I am into 2nd Life.


 


Its strange 2nd Life is the virtual reality world some call it a game some dont they use it to live there; and many adults cant catch on its hard too unless youre kind of young or young at heart and have been into video gaming alot.


 It took me a few years really to catch on but I use it all the time and people are jealous of my youth. Infact its a problem for me jealousy over my eternal youth,Ive been called  avampire. My old psychiatrists say its somewhat more natural with mentally ill pateints.


 


BUT BACK TO MICHAEL JACKSON YES THEY DID PERSECUTE HIM AND PICKED ON HIM BECAUSE OF THIS AND MISJUDGED HIM. They doint understand, they think the child man means he has to be a child molester and its not true.Its just like with me people are freaked out and think I cant get anyone to like me or have a relationship with me unless hes a predator because of my mental health issues.


its not that theres not any predators who have been attracted to me I jsut deleted the rets of that I might write about it in a different section later.


BUT THAT DOESNT MEAN I DONT HAVE THE RIGHT TO HAVE  A BOYFRIEND  or anything but I think alot of people think that and it makes me mad. It just makes me mad that people assumed all that crap about MJ too I love Michael Im a child woman as well sometimes I use the term vampire for eternally young, Maybe Ill write more about this later in a different section.

Flag rideronthastorm July 31, 2013 1:35 AM EDT

Im also knowledgable about Twilight and vampire soaps in general.

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