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Switch to Forum Live View 'Lost' Ends Tonight: Your Thoughts?
5 years ago  ::  Feb 03, 2009 - 12:38PM #41
zorro2
Posts: 44
to don't be captious, Your'e right it was messy,. a messy, messy, post. I apologize for that.

I had to step back and look at it and honestly, I can hardly read it...and I wrote it.!-lol. I'll try to do better next time.
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5 years ago  ::  Feb 03, 2009 - 12:51PM #42
zorro2
Posts: 44
Mountain man, the video interview with the writers said: the statues are there to show us that the island draws people in, and have been visited before long ago.

Why did the gunshot wound go back in time with locke?:Remember daniel told the sawyer " your camp is still here, your consciousnes is traveling through time." (not a direct quote but you get the idea).

And in another scene, same episode Daniel said " what you have on you  during the shift in  time will go with you through time." this was mentioned twice in the last two episode of season 5.  First by Daniel, and again by either sawyer or one of the other losties.

Review the episodes and you will hear him say that.

thats right!!, moutain man, there are many, many refrences to books, plays , poets ect. all through out the series of Lost.
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5 years ago  ::  Feb 03, 2009 - 1:19PM #43
mountain_man
Posts: 38,733

zorro2 wrote:

Mountain man, the video interview with the writers said: the statues are there to show us that the island draws people in, and have been visited before long ago.


That doesn't explain the missing toes.

Why did the gunshot wound go back in time with locke?:Remember daniel told the sawyer " your camp is still here, your consciousnes is traveling through time." (not a direct quote but you get the idea).


Physical wounds would not be bouncing around in time if only the consciousness was traveling.

And in another scene, same episode Daniel said " what you have on you  during the shift in  time will go with you through time." this was mentioned twice in the last two episode of season 5.  First by Daniel, and again by either sawyer or one of the other losties....


Another clue to tell you that they are physically going through time.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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5 years ago  ::  Feb 04, 2009 - 4:56AM #44
Don't_Be_Captious
Posts: 1,035
Again I ask

Don't_Be_Captious wrote:

me: Also, as for Richard Alpert, whom Locke is always looking for: Why does Richard know Locke's situation in future ("earlier") times, but in 1954 Alpert has no idea who he is? I just sort of assumed Alpert travels through time already. 


MM:
Alpert is just old, not a time traveler. Maybe related to those that built that statue. Aliens?


But what about that scene when Locke 1st or 2nd time sees the flash & jumps through time; the airplane with the African Mother Mary heroin statues flies over Locke then crashes; investigating the crash, Locke encounters Ethan who shoots him in the leg.  Soon after, Locke again sees the flash & jumps through time, this time with the plane much later in the future.  Richard Alpert comes directly to Locke there & helps him with his gunshot wound.  I know it's in the future, but how/why could Richard Alpert be wandering around in the future just at that point in time if he's not a time-traveller himself?  Unless either that exact moment was very shortly after Locke's actual "present," just moments after he disappeared from his first bright light flash.  But then how the hell would Alpert know Locke was shot by Ethan sometime in the past after he'd already seen the bright light & jumped time?


How to explain this is Alpert's "just old" but not a time traveller

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5 years ago  ::  Feb 04, 2009 - 4:57AM #45
Don't_Be_Captious
Posts: 1,035
Again I ask

Don't_Be_Captious wrote:

me: Also, as for Richard Alpert, whom Locke is always looking for: Why does Richard know Locke's situation in future ("earlier") times, but in 1954 Alpert has no idea who he is? I just sort of assumed Alpert travels through time already. 


mm
Alpert is just old, not a time traveler. Maybe related to those that built that statue. Aliens?

me
But what about that scene when Locke 1st or 2nd time sees the flash & jumps through time; the airplane with the African Mother Mary heroin statues flies over Locke then crashes; investigating the crash, Locke encounters Ethan who shoots him in the leg.  Soon after, Locke again sees the flash & jumps through time, this time with the plane much later in the future.  Richard Alpert comes directly to Locke there & helps him with his gunshot wound.  I know it's in the future, but how/why could Richard Alpert be wandering around in the future just at that point in time if he's not a time-traveller himself?  Unless either that exact moment was very shortly after Locke's actual "present," just moments after he disappeared from his first bright light flash.  But then how the hell would Alpert know Locke was shot by Ethan sometime in the past after he'd already seen the bright light & jumped time?


How to explain this if Alpert is "just old" but not a time traveller

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5 years ago  ::  Feb 04, 2009 - 1:58PM #46
Don't_Be_Captious
Posts: 1,035
Okay, I have more than 30 seconds of time now to try to read this & figure out what you're saying here.


zorro2 wrote:

they are jumping through time in their consciousness only thier bodies are still in one place or time. again remember the video of the white rabbit. and the episode of the mouse in the maze in daniels lab. and the espisode of desmond on the ship. its their minds that is traveling in and out of time not their bodies the island is causing it but the island isn't really moving at all.


I don't buy that entirely.  Desmond & some other characters, maybe (like the mouse) have their consciousnesses only moving through time, but the rest of them, including the island, they are all physically moving through time & space (in the island's case at least), kit & kaboodle.

I don't know how the writers are going to explain all that, but it does make for some good storytelling.  Consciousness can no more move independently of the body than it can live after the body dies, etc.  (Not to mention bodies can't time travel, either.)




richard alpert knew locke at the time of ethans shooting because if you remember the original episode ethan didn't shoot locke in that original episode ethan shot boone or shannon or someone else but it wasn't locke that he originally shot.  but alpert was indeed around then so he knew of the losties and Locke because he visited locke as a baby and a boy. at the point of ethans gun shot scene, the scene with alpert visiting locke and knowing he would be the next leader had already happend in 1956. its kinda like they did a flash forward then backward then forward again. they first showed us locke visited by ethan as a baby, and a boy, then they show us alpert grooming locke to become the next leader telling him he has to kill his father (remember that episode) well now they are showing us why alpert went to visit locke.


Humm, well, if that was last season (season 4) I very well might've missed it, first season I missed several episodes (last spring); combination of my life's personal stuff, and some disinterest, to be honest.

Well, crap, if what you say is so, then I really need to go back & somehow see that episode.

(Was it on this episode or any other where we actually see Locke telling Alpert that he's been hurt (shot in the leg) & bleeding in the Mother Mary statue heroin plane?  Even if Locke tells Alpert that, how can he possibly know exactly what DATE it will be that Alpert should expect to walk into the woods & find Locke there bleeding his leg out?)



]so alpert has always been on the island he is an other, one of the original people on the island. he knew what was going to happen when the donkey wheel turned  he knew locke would dissapear he knew all of this because Locke told him in 1954. during the time travel. alpert knew that locke may travel back before alpert ever set eyes on him so alpert gave locke the compass to remind himself that he knows locke. its almost like a loop in time. 1954 was a time prior to the 815 crash on the island alpert didn't know the losties then because they weren't there yet. but locke "reset" time in a matter of speaking by telling alpert all about them and the time travel. so now alpert knows locke and the losties in 1954 before they ever set foot on the island. and this is why is seems like alpert is traveling through time but really he isn't he is just getting information he should have had. just like dainel telling desmond to look for his mother in the past and in the present all of a sudden desmond has this dream that daniel wants him to look for his mother. its the same thing with Locke and alpert. locke went back in time and whispered in alperts ear in 1954 which set or re-set everything alpert did and why he did it in motion through out all the other seasons in the show.


Okay, I can see that.  Except, it really is Desmond whose consciousness travels through time (Have you ever read Kurt Vonnegut's Slaughterhouse Five?  The main character Billy Pilgrim's mind travels through time, not his body.  That's obviously where they got this idea for Desmond.)

(Moreover, Desmond's full name is Desmond David Hume, again another name of a famous old-timey British philosopher; but David Hume was the most infamous of all.  His philosophy was radical empiricism (to the point, really, of actually being radical idealism):  Exactly & only whatever you perceive at any one instant of time & place is all you can possibly know for certain is real.  Any presumption about "past" or "future" are based entirely on mere memory, abstraction, inference, and animal guessing.  Desmond clearly experiences all of his life this way.  So clearly he's very special & unique on "Lost" -- as Faraday said.)



...do you get it now???


I'm sorry for biting your head off back there.  I think it was this phrase at the end of your post that really set me off.  I simply wasn't in the mood for it & reacted reactively.

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5 years ago  ::  Feb 04, 2009 - 2:22PM #47
Don't_Be_Captious
Posts: 1,035

richard alpert knew locke at the time of ethans shooting because if you remember the original episode ethan didn't shoot locke in that original episode ethan shot boone or shannon or someone else but it wasn't locke that he originally shot. .


I think you're inferring more than is warranted from the evidence, unless there really is an episode I'm missing here (which may be the case).  The episode I think you're talking about here happened, like you say, long ago; season 2, perhaps.  I remember Ethan shooting Boone, I think.

But in the recent episode (Ethan shoots Locke), this happens just after the Mother Mary heroin statue airplane crashes.  In the older episode, and all the first 3 seasons of Lost, the heroin statue airplane has obviously been crashed on the island for a very long time, years or at least months:  All the passengers are skeletons.  They couldn't have turned to skeletons in just 5 minutes, as was the time that elapsed between when the plane flew over Locke's head (just after his first bright light time travel) & crashed, and when Ethan discovered Locke by the plane & shot him.

Besides, how would you explain time "happening differently" if, in one episode, Boone gets shot, but then in another one, the "same thing" happens, but instead it's Locke who gets shot?  Ethan was/is violent; he probably shoots lots of people.  In "real time," Locke gets shot just after the airplane crashes (what we're discussing here), and then, several months or years later, after Flight 815 crashes, Ethan later shoots Boone.

So I'm even less sure of your explanation here.

Still, maybe Locke did somehow convey ALL this information to Alpert in just the 2 minutes they got to talk in 1954.

Even so, again I ask:  How could Locke possibly know what specific DATE Alpert was supposed to be out in the jungle with a tourniquet & bandage for Locke's shot, bleeding leg?

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5 years ago  ::  Feb 05, 2009 - 7:46AM #48
zorro2
Posts: 44
don't be captious. yes it is only thier minds that are moving through time, it was said over and over again. And it is written on many spoiler sites as well,

infact there is a webisode, a video interview where the writers said this idea of time travel was the hardest to explain to the producers.

how do they explain the mouse in the maze. that it is only their consciousness traveling which is the reason for the brain hemorrage and nose bleeds.

  I'd give the link to that video episode but I don't know if it is permissable.?

As to your question about Alpert, and how he knew locke would be there?., he didn't.  Locke dissapeared from the others and Alpert simply went to look for him.

Alpert started to explain what he knew and how, but he didn't have time so he gave Locke the watch, Alpert knew another flash was soon to happen.

How did Locke explain everything to Alpert in just two minutes?-lol, Don't be captious lets not forget this is T.V.  we have to assume that is what happens. Locke needed information such as; how to get off the island, so he had to fill Alpert in on what he knows so he can gain Alperts trust and help.

Its a pretty good asumption that locke told alpert everything. like I said its t.v. they have to leave something on the cutting room floor. besides its Lost...time is relavent or irrelevent on lost.

so how do I explain boone getting shot and now locke? hey I am not hypothesizing anything, and be careful not to over analyze this as well,  this is carlton and damons brain child not mine.

Perhaps and this is my theory, perhaps ethan would have come across boone but Locke step in at that moment where boone would have been if locke had stayed hidden. For example, say you walked across the street and got hit by a car.  now lets go back in time just before that happens. You walk towards the street, and I jump in front of you and I walk into the street and get hit by the car instead of you.

thats my theory, locke stepped out in front of ethan before boone thats all.
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5 years ago  ::  Feb 05, 2009 - 8:06AM #49
zorro2
Posts: 44
mountain man, all I can tell you is what the writers and eveyone else and every posted review of the episodes, every spoiler and information in the story itself says only their consciouness is traveling through time what they have with thme goes with them.

don't make the mistake of over analyzing this. or you will get a major head ache!!! trust me I  know. by the way ...you got any asprin?

my guess is they need to show us what they are experiencing and they also need action. so they came up with " what you have with you stays with you" remember this is Science Fiction, not Science Facts. and its T.v. And more importantly Its LOST!!!-LOL. 

On the freighter, Desmond stays in one place, he never leaves the room, but he is seen travel all over the city looking for daniel first and then his beloved Penny. but he never leaves the room.

one goof though, his clothes does change in every jump through time when he was on the frieghter..but not while they are on the island, but hey I am no time travel expert, I'll leave that to Daniel, damon and carlton. I will just enjoy the show as they lay it out to us. I don't question it any more....at least not for now.lol
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5 years ago  ::  Feb 05, 2009 - 8:25AM #50
zorro2
Posts: 44
I wanted to talk about last nights episode, but I don't want to spoil it for anyone. So I'll just say I was jumping up and down last night, excited not by what I saw, but Who I saw. And those of you who saw last nights episode know what I'm talking about. So I'll leave it at that untill everyone had a chance to see it.

I was wondering if any of you feel, that not only are the losties minds  traveling through time but so are ours??.


We go back and forth through these episodes along with them.  We are forced to view, review, analyze and reanalyze each episode as the losties go through them.

We are time traveling too, and it won't be long before we too suffer from a brain hemorrage-lol.

Oh, and now get ready for this, they've found a new creative way to pick our brains and mess with our heads.
Its the new wave in Lost and its called "Psych outs".

The first "psych out" was in the jungle when elle and her small gang of "others" came across miles, daniel and charlotte.
Elle (the girl with the gun) said to Daniel " You just couldn't stay away could you".  We all thought she meant that Daniel had been on the island before and she knew him from that time he was there. Thats the psych out, because what she really meant is, he is a member of the arm forces that has come back to retrieve the bomb. she never knew daniel before.

Another "psych out", happen last night and I guess I can't mention it because it would be a spoiler. but it involes claires mother and the lawyers that came to kates house. that was a psych out.  so beware of psych outs because they are comming to a Lost island near you!!! :)

this show has driven me crazy!!
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