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4 years ago  ::  Nov 21, 2010 - 1:35AM #1
Guessses
Posts: 2,233

Ever lost and buried your own child before she was born in an unmarked grave with your own 2  hands?.

Infinite Blessings
Mike/NAFOD
"Lord, please, protect me from Your followers!"
"WWBD? Buddha- Does it matter? If you are enlightened it does not. If you are not enlightened it still doesn't matter."
"If you go looking to place blame, eventually you'll wind up blaming the Gods"
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4 years ago  ::  Nov 22, 2010 - 10:14PM #2
karbie
Posts: 3,329

No--probably because my miscarriage happened in stages; I'd been passing tissue by the time the doctor confirmed that I was pregnant and that there was no way at all to save the pregnancy on the same visit. Believe me, it isn't wasn't what I wanted to hear. I've always been grateful to God simply by having the miscarriage before the D& C to end the pregnancy. It was scheduled, and we kept it because it was still necessary.


People on the abortion board don't understand why I don't give myself a pass on that, but I know what could have easily happened to me if that hadn't been available.


My grandparents had just lost their youngest child to a 2 year bout of leukemia, and Grandma got pregnant again. She not only miscarried, she was bleeding out--took 8 units of blood and had an emergency hysterectomy. She and I talked one afternoon when we finally told the families...I'd already had more of the "Why are you so selfish? Why haven't you made them grandparents yet?" from his dad's relatives than I could take, since it started at 9 months of marriage. (Can we say, No, that's not why he married me?)


I think the closest person who would have had an inkling would have been my father. My brother only lived 5 days. Neither my sister or I were allowed to go to the funeral; Mother was too much of a basket case to go. His grave remained unmarked until my father died, actually. Every time they got money saved up, it went elsewhere. Mother almost died giving birth to him. He had an enlarged heart with a hole in it. My parents lived 3 blocks from the hospital he was born in and that wasn't fast enough. I Know that Daddy used to go out to the cemetary by himself and cry. With Mother, anything to do with "baby' was put away by other people. No one had to tell us not to mention it or ask her questions. We were taken aside by Daddy and told that there would be no more prayers for a baby brother or sister because he'd almost lost mother and would not be risking her again. The effect on my parents made a larger impression. I got to hold him once and see him twice while he was alive. My grandparents were keeping us to make it easier on Mother.


There are so many hopes and dreams that go along with waiting for a child to be born. In my brother's case, that was the end of that particular male line. Our son is one of only 3 among the cousins who carry the name on another generation. That turned out to be incredibly important to Dad. In fact, it was the first time he'd told my husband he was proud of him.


I wish I could take away this extra pain; I know that I tried to bury both my emotional and physical pain. At least they have better drugs for physical pain; the psychiatrist I eventually started seeing had me on 400mg of Deseryl a night to begin with. 20 minutes later and I'd be asleep. The irony is that the physical pain has never ended. At the time, my consolation, was that what I was going through didn't compare to the Hell my parents went through.


I don't know if i would have been better or worse off if there had been a body to hold.


One of my first friends here went from having 2 pregnant daughters with one about to get married to one pregnant daughter in one week. Her granddaghter, born while her daughter was in a medical coma at 4 months, lived a few hours. They took her off the machines at the end of the week. Some of the beliefnet people lived close enough to go and spell them at the hospital and just be there for the rest of us.


Among all my other babble, this is what helped Mother after my brother died after such a short life. Apparently the Dalai Lama had said that when infants are born for a short life, it allows a soul whose life was cut short too soon finish out the days they were supposed to have lived in order to be free to go on to the next life.


Again, I'm sorry for the pain that you are going through right now, dear friend.

"You are letting your opinion be colored by facts again."
'When I want your opinion, I'll give it to you."
these are both from my father.
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4 years ago  ::  Nov 22, 2010 - 10:26PM #3
Guessses
Posts: 2,233

Nov 22, 2010 -- 10:14PM, karbie wrote:


No--probably because my miscarriage happened in stages; I'd been passing tissue by the time the doctor confirmed that I was pregnant and that there was no way at all to save the pregnancy on the same visit. Believe me, it isn't wasn't what I wanted to hear. I've always been grateful to God simply by having the miscarriage before the D& C to end the pregnancy. It was scheduled, and we kept it because it was still necessary.


People on the abortion board don't understand why I don't give myself a pass on that, but I know what could have easily happened to me if that hadn't been available.


My grandparents had just lost their youngest child to a 2 year bout of leukemia, and Grandma got pregnant again. She not only miscarried, she was bleeding out--took 8 units of blood and had an emergency hysterectomy. She and I talked one afternoon when we finally told the families...I'd already had more of the "Why are you so selfish? Why haven't you made them grandparents yet?" from his dad's relatives than I could take, since it started at 9 months of marriage. (Can we say, No, that's not why he married me?)


I think the closest person who would have had an inkling would have been my father. My brother only lived 5 days. Neither my sister or I were allowed to go to the funeral; Mother was too much of a basket case to go. His grave remained unmarked until my father died, actually. Every time they got money saved up, it went elsewhere. Mother almost died giving birth to him. He had an enlarged heart with a hole in it. My parents lived 3 blocks from the hospital he was born in and that wasn't fast enough. I Know that Daddy used to go out to the cemetary by himself and cry. With Mother, anything to do with "baby' was put away by other people. No one had to tell us not to mention it or ask her questions. We were taken aside by Daddy and told that there would be no more prayers for a baby brother or sister because he'd almost lost mother and would not be risking her again. The effect on my parents made a larger impression. I got to hold him once and see him twice while he was alive. My grandparents were keeping us to make it easier on Mother.


There are so many hopes and dreams that go along with waiting for a child to be born. In my brother's case, that was the end of that particular male line. Our son is one of only 3 among the cousins who carry the name on another generation. That turned out to be incredibly important to Dad. In fact, it was the first time he'd told my husband he was proud of him.


I wish I could take away this extra pain; I know that I tried to bury both my emotional and physical pain. At least they have better drugs for physical pain; the psychiatrist I eventually started seeing had me on 400mg of Deseryl a night to begin with. 20 minutes later and I'd be asleep. The irony is that the physical pain has never ended. At the time, my consolation, was that what I was going through didn't compare to the Hell my parents went through.


I don't know if i would have been better or worse off if there had been a body to hold.


One of my first friends here went from having 2 pregnant daughters with one about to get married to one pregnant daughter in one week. Her granddaghter, born while her daughter was in a medical coma at 4 months, lived a few hours. They took her off the machines at the end of the week. Some of the beliefnet people lived close enough to go and spell them at the hospital and just be there for the rest of us.


Among all my other babble, this is what helped Mother after my brother died after such a short life. Apparently the Dalai Lama had said that when infants are born for a short life, it allows a soul whose life was cut short too soon finish out the days they were supposed to have lived in order to be free to go on to the next life.


Again, I'm sorry for the pain that you are going through right now, dear friend.




Thanks Karbie,


I try to let certain memories stay submerged but am not always successful.


Peace,

Infinite Blessings
Mike/NAFOD
"Lord, please, protect me from Your followers!"
"WWBD? Buddha- Does it matter? If you are enlightened it does not. If you are not enlightened it still doesn't matter."
"If you go looking to place blame, eventually you'll wind up blaming the Gods"
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4 years ago  ::  Nov 23, 2010 - 1:26PM #4
karbie
Posts: 3,329

With the trigger you just had, there is no way to stop things. I read aabout your saving your friend's life. I don't accept the Chinese folklore that saving another person's life meant that you were responsible for it afterwards. If that were true, the doctors would be paying us instead of the other way around. Or is that why they charge so much?


The friend who was with me the day I fell was once in the position of putting her mother in the hospital psych ward because she was afraid she'd kill herself. Her fiancee had killed himself over money problems his parents would have much rather bailed him out of. She was the one who found him. So my friend called me for advice. She was afraid that her mother would never forgive her; I told her that having her mad and alive was the best option.  Her mother wasn't mad at her for long because she knew it was done out of love and took a lot of courage.


Her mother went on to marry someone else and it was a good marriage. She had an extra 20 years of happiness. She still died in her mid-sixties. When my friend told me, I called her as well as the e-mails. I reminded her that without her courage at a crucial point, none of that would have happened. Her mother hired a belly dancer for her son-in-law's 50th birthday. My gift was to shoot 2 packages of Polarid's at the party, and the shot of her sister's butt bent over the food on the picnic table was at her mother's request. Pat was a live wire.


I'm extremely lucky both in my mother and in still having her. My daughter-in-law was surprised that people in my family actually enjoy each other's company and that Mother is still young inside. Better believe I passed that compliment back to Mother as soon as I heard it; she says it's the best one she's ever had.


Isn't a big part of post-traumatic stress just how deep the emotional scars go? The mind replays things long after the physical injuries heal as much as they can.


I've known at least one case where a sister married her nephew's father so she could help raise him without raising eyebrows. (Talk about a useless exercise! That and looking down your nose at anyone....since I have a button nose, that's a physical impossibility for me.)


I'm sorry that you are hurting. I'm proud you saved her life; those kids have been through enough. Just being able to stay friends with an ex-lover is a rare accomplishment. But then you are a rare person.


 

"You are letting your opinion be colored by facts again."
'When I want your opinion, I'll give it to you."
these are both from my father.
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4 years ago  ::  Nov 23, 2010 - 6:37PM #5
Guessses
Posts: 2,233

Nov 23, 2010 -- 1:26PM, karbie wrote:


With the trigger you just had, there is no way to stop things. I read aabout your saving your friend's life. I don't accept the Chinese folklore that saving another person's life meant that you were responsible for it afterwards. If that were true, the doctors would be paying us instead of the other way around. Or is that why they charge so much?


The friend who was with me the day I fell was once in the position of putting her mother in the hospital psych ward because she was afraid she'd kill herself. Her fiancee had killed himself over money problems his parents would have much rather bailed him out of. She was the one who found him. So my friend called me for advice. She was afraid that her mother would never forgive her; I told her that having her mad and alive was the best option.  Her mother wasn't mad at her for long because she knew it was done out of love and took a lot of courage.


Her mother went on to marry someone else and it was a good marriage. She had an extra 20 years of happiness. She still died in her mid-sixties. When my friend told me, I called her as well as the e-mails. I reminded her that without her courage at a crucial point, none of that would have happened. Her mother hired a belly dancer for her son-in-law's 50th birthday. My gift was to shoot 2 packages of Polarid's at the party, and the shot of her sister's butt bent over the food on the picnic table was at her mother's request. Pat was a live wire.


I'm extremely lucky both in my mother and in still having her. My daughter-in-law was surprised that people in my family actually enjoy each other's company and that Mother is still young inside. Better believe I passed that compliment back to Mother as soon as I heard it; she says it's the best one she's ever had.


Isn't a big part of post-traumatic stress just how deep the emotional scars go? The mind replays things long after the physical injuries heal as much as they can.


I've known at least one case where a sister married her nephew's father so she could help raise him without raising eyebrows. (Talk about a useless exercise! That and looking down your nose at anyone....since I have a button nose, that's a physical impossibility for me.)


I'm sorry that you are hurting. I'm proud you saved her life; those kids have been through enough. Just being able to stay friends with an ex-lover is a rare accomplishment. But then you are a rare person.


 




Hi Karbie,


Thanks again! Smile I was friends (& lovers) with my ex-wife for 2 years after the divorce. LOL, she said I "make a better friend than a husband". Every now and then, she got some right.


Today, Star mentioned that her wrist slitting event was triggered by me. Great! All I need is more guilt.


I am learning to try and recognize when I put myself in "bad situations". For example: The Employment Counselor suggested I go back into Security. My initial response was "yes". However, after due thought, I realized that the trauma of being clobbered and stuffed in the trunk of a car to be left for dead, would be too much to endure in that job role again. The same with "Heat Casualty", or driving. So I realize my options are less.


Peace be with you,


My Friend,


Mike 

Infinite Blessings
Mike/NAFOD
"Lord, please, protect me from Your followers!"
"WWBD? Buddha- Does it matter? If you are enlightened it does not. If you are not enlightened it still doesn't matter."
"If you go looking to place blame, eventually you'll wind up blaming the Gods"
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4 years ago  ::  Nov 24, 2010 - 12:23AM #6
karbie
Posts: 3,329

Dear Mike,


so, every other time she cut herself, that was your fault as well? She's taking the easy way out by blaming you, just like having known she needed stitches was making too big a thing out of it according to her housemate. If he cared a rat's ass, he should be thanking you instead. Or maybe it was just paying the bills involved. If I go to the ER and am not just admitted but kept for over 48 hours, we have a $100 co-pay. Last time I went to ER because one side of my body didn't feel the same to me and I'd been shaking all over, I was admitted for "Observation." I was sent home after 46 hours and therefore had to pay the deductible.


Right now it looks like we'll get stuck paying for $567 worth of blood work I didn't have precertified first. Anything investigative, diagnostic, or regular preventative tests are no longer covered. Which is most of them. So from now on I'm keeping my bodily fluids to myself. And I thought it was bad when allergy  serum was covered as a prescription drug but the shots to get them in the body weren't!


there was a time when pay toilets came out we used to wish the person who came up with the idea to spend Eternity with a bottle of prune juice in one hand and a $20 bill in the other. I now go for one that I've carefully worked out to not reflect on my own karma. I just wish these people to receive the same amount of care and consideration they treat other people with. Whether that's a blessing or a curse is up to them, not me.


In the current economy, I wouldn't want to be a security guard; you've been through more than your share of dangerous situations. I could see it at someplace like a hotel or an event rather than a store. I don't think some of the places carry a single thing worth risking a life over. Again, someplace like a wholesale club where all you do is check to see all the items in the cart match the receipt is one thing--one store had an employee in a wheelchair doing it.


As you said, your friend has a lot of baggage; it may even include survivor guilt. Or conversely being pissed at being the one who did survive and has to deal with things. When I told my husband there were not guarantees over who would die first despite our age differences, I really never expected him to be the one taking care of me. He's almost 11 years older than I am. His sister and I were close friends in HS; that's how we met.


It's always real easy to blame someone else. If you'd cut her wrists for her, she'd have a point. You didn't. I guess I was really right when I said her life isn't your problem. I'm glad you were able to remain friends with your ex; just because it didn't work as a marriage didn't mean you'd stopped caring about each other. With my ex-husband, he'd moved his mistress in before moving me out. The guy I was involved with after that stalked me afterwards. So a relationship and/or friendship wasn't going to happen.

"You are letting your opinion be colored by facts again."
'When I want your opinion, I'll give it to you."
these are both from my father.
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