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8 years ago  ::  Feb 15, 2010 - 11:21PM #11
Comradespirit
Posts: 62

There is alot in this short account concerning Socrates and how he handle his impending departure from the body. For instance we see he was not at all interested in rather the body was burned or buried.


Often we become concerned with things like how or where we want the body to be buried or where we want our ashes placed. Timothy Leary wanted his ashes  shot into space.  Had he known he was not those ashes he would not have cared even a little.


This is how we should be about what is done with our mortal frames once we have discarded them. We should not care in the slightest.They can send mine to the Zoo to be feed to the wild animals for all I care. I won't be bothered in the slightest.


Don't look back. Forward towards the realm of Light.

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8 years ago  ::  Feb 16, 2010 - 9:18AM #12
Passionatereason
Posts: 142

Feb 15, 2010 -- 11:08PM, Comradespirit wrote:

"...Be of good cheer then, my dear Crito, and say that you are burying my body only, and do with that whatever is usual, and what you think best."


A very enlightened way to approach death....there is no need to grieve for death is no at all what it often appears to be.


Which is why those who know me, know that I care not what happens to my body after death. "Carve out the useful parts, and feed the rest to the dogs" I have always said.
This has been my "desire" for a long time, simply because I do understand the "Truth".


Feb 15, 2010 -- 11:08PM, Comradespirit wrote:

" The wise lament neither for the living or the dead." Bhagavad-gita


Quite true, but the wise & compassionate still attend the memorials & funerals of the dead.
They do this not to lament the dead, but out of compassion for the living who do not understand.
It is both wise & compassionate to show empathy towards the living.


While it is fine that you may need the Bhagavad-gita to help you understand...
There are other sources through which this understanding is available. These sources all speak to the same "Truth", one only needs to open their heart & mind to this fact, and the commonality will be discovered...


- and "peace of mind" will surely follow.

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8 years ago  ::  Feb 16, 2010 - 9:44AM #13
Comradespirit
Posts: 62

It's an odd thing how we humans try so hard to ignore the fact that death is there for all of us. That of course that we misunderstand it as the end of our being instead of just a transition from one state of living to another state of living.


 


We just block it out of our minds and don't include it in our life plans at all. In this western society especially we are exhorted to make plans for old age and retirement even from an early age. We are renided to make plans against the unexpected things that can happen. No one should enter old age ill-prepared.  But we ignore the next and final event which is a surety and that is death. This fear of death is only because we don't understand  the nature of the event. We have no idea how to prepare for it and feel absolutely helpless before it so we just cringe at the thought and try hard not to think about it.


Once we come to understand it as a transition from one stage of life to another  then we can contemplate it's meaning. Even before the braver and more curious among us can and do seek out some information about death. That being the purpose of this forum, Life After Death.


Most of us reading and posting here already are knowledgeable about our continued existence beyond death's door. So that raises a question for us.


Having accepted death as a transition to another dimension is there anyway we can effect that transition to insure we transition to a more favorable situation  vs. one not so favorable?


 

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8 years ago  ::  Feb 16, 2010 - 4:21PM #14
Passionatereason
Posts: 142

Feb 16, 2010 -- 9:44AM, Comradespirit wrote:


It's an odd thing how we humans try so hard to ignore the fact that death is there for all of us.


I thought this thread was to cover the belief that "death is just a myth". Do you now agree with me then, that death is unavoidable?

Feb 16, 2010 -- 9:44AM, Comradespirit wrote:

we misunderstand it as the end of our being


I misunderstand nothing concerning my impending death.

Feb 16, 2010 -- 9:44AM, Comradespirit wrote:

...instead of just a transition from one state of living to another state of living.


What do you believe is that 'other state of living', and why do believe this is so?

Feb 16, 2010 -- 9:44AM, Comradespirit wrote:

...But we ignore the next and final event which is a surety and that is death.


And once again, if you believe that death is but a myth, why have you just stated it is a surety?

Feb 16, 2010 -- 9:44AM, Comradespirit wrote:

This fear of death is only because we don't understand  the nature of the event.


I do not fear the inevitable. I worry not about the unprovable.

Feb 16, 2010 -- 9:44AM, Comradespirit wrote:

We have no idea how to prepare for it and feel absolutely helpless before it so we just cringe at the thought and try hard not to think about it.


It is inevitable, therefore one need not "prepare for it".
If a being wants "peace of mind" in this life though, then that being must understand "Truth". If a being is not able to understand "Truth", then I would agree, the next best thing is to choose a faith tradition, and follow its directions where it concerns "preparing for a better life after death".
These directions will generally lead a being to live a life that is closely related to "Truth", and they too will gain at least some "peace of mind".

Feb 16, 2010 -- 9:44AM, Comradespirit wrote:

Once we come to understand it as a transition from one stage of life to another  then we can contemplate it's meaning.


If a being comes to understand death as this transition, then that being will naturally want to contemplate it's meaning...


But if a being understands "Truth" and lives in harmony with this "Truth", then that being need not have any worries about death, or what is to happen if there is "Life after Death".

Feb 16, 2010 -- 9:44AM, Comradespirit wrote:

...Having accepted death as a transition to another dimension is there anyway we can effect that transition to insure we transition to a more favorable situation  vs. one not so favorable?


And your answer would be?


Your statement demands another question though. Most beings do indeed believe in this transition you speak of, but...
Some believe in "Heaven & Hell", and some believe in "Reincarnation".


Do you believe that it matters which belief a being clings to?


And if you, Comradespirit, are not willing to answer the questions that I have asked...


Is there anyone else willing to answer these questions?


I am surely willing to answer any questions asked of me.

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8 years ago  ::  Feb 17, 2010 - 1:47AM #15
Comradespirit
Posts: 62

You ask far more questions then I am willing to even think about at any one time. This subject matter demands a deeper type of contemplation and not a rapid fire quizzing and critquing of each others beliefs.


 


You asked:


"Your statement demands another question though. Most beings do indeed believe in this transition you speak of, but...
Some believe in "Heaven & Hell", and some believe in "Reincarnation".


 


Do you believe that it matters which belief a being clings to?"


Well I believe in a transition from one state of being to another. In this case from a bodily based experience of life through death to a subtle form of material life in the astral world and then back into a new bodily based life. This is reincarnation.


Now according to the results of one's past activities one's next life can be experienced in a heavenly, hellish or in-between set of circumstances.


You talk as if these are opposing concepts. They are not.

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8 years ago  ::  Feb 17, 2010 - 12:07PM #16
williejhonlo
Posts: 4,100

Death is a myth because we assume the body to be alive,but it is not. The body is composed of chemicals, but chemicals don't possess life. Since the body is not technically living it cannot die. Consciousness maintains and animates the body and because of this we wrongly misconstrue the body to be alive. In truth there's no difference between a living body and a so called dead one.

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8 years ago  ::  Feb 17, 2010 - 12:30PM #17
williejhonlo
Posts: 4,100

Feb 16, 2010 -- 4:21PM, Passionatereason wrote:


Feb 16, 2010 -- 9:44AM, Comradespirit wrote:


It's an odd thing how we humans try so hard to ignore the fact that death is there for all of us.


I thought this thread was to cover the belief that "death is just a myth". Do you now agree with me then, that death is unavoidable?

Feb 16, 2010 -- 9:44AM, Comradespirit wrote:

we misunderstand it as the end of our being


I misunderstand nothing concerning my impending death.

Feb 16, 2010 -- 9:44AM, Comradespirit wrote:

...instead of just a transition from one state of living to another state of living.


What do you believe is that 'other state of living', and why do believe this is so?

Feb 16, 2010 -- 9:44AM, Comradespirit wrote:

...But we ignore the next and final event which is a surety and that is death.


And once again, if you believe that death is but a myth, why have you just stated it is a surety?

Feb 16, 2010 -- 9:44AM, Comradespirit wrote:

This fear of death is only because we don't understand  the nature of the event.


I do not fear the inevitable. I worry not about the unprovable.

Feb 16, 2010 -- 9:44AM, Comradespirit wrote:

We have no idea how to prepare for it and feel absolutely helpless before it so we just cringe at the thought and try hard not to think about it.


It is inevitable, therefore one need not "prepare for it".
If a being wants "peace of mind" in this life though, then that being must understand "Truth". If a being is not able to understand "Truth", then I would agree, the next best thing is to choose a faith tradition, and follow its directions where it concerns "preparing for a better life after death".
These directions will generally lead a being to live a life that is closely related to "Truth", and they too will gain at least some "peace of mind".

Feb 16, 2010 -- 9:44AM, Comradespirit wrote:

Once we come to understand it as a transition from one stage of life to another  then we can contemplate it's meaning.


If a being comes to understand death as this transition, then that being will naturally want to contemplate it's meaning...


But if a being understands "Truth" and lives in harmony with this "Truth", then that being need not have any worries about death, or what is to happen if there is "Life after Death".

Feb 16, 2010 -- 9:44AM, Comradespirit wrote:

...Having accepted death as a transition to another dimension is there anyway we can effect that transition to insure we transition to a more favorable situation  vs. one not so favorable?


And your answer would be?


Your statement demands another question though. Most beings do indeed believe in this transition you speak of, but...
Some believe in "Heaven & Hell", and some believe in "Reincarnation".


Do you believe that it matters which belief a being clings to?


And if you, Comradespirit, are not willing to answer the questions that I have asked...


Is there anyone else willing to answer these questions?


I am surely willing to answer any questions asked of me.



It does not matter if one believes in reincarnation or going too heaven and hell since basically they are the same thing. It is said in the gita that those who die in the mode of goodness go upward to the higher heavenly planets and that those who die in ignorance go down to the hellish worlds. In the Bhagavid-gita it is stated that one can travel too different spheres of existence or stay on the earthly plain according to his karma. This travelling of the soul to different spheres and it taking different types of bodies to live on those spheres is called reincarnation.

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8 years ago  ::  Feb 17, 2010 - 12:41PM #18
Passionatereason
Posts: 142

Feb 17, 2010 -- 12:07PM, williejhonlo wrote:


Death is a myth because we assume the body to be alive,but it is not. The body is composed of chemicals, but chemicals don't possess life. Since the body is not technically living it cannot die. Consciousness maintains and animates the body and because of this we wrongly misconstrue the body to be alive. In truth there's no difference between a living body and a so called dead one.





Now it is you that is playing word games. If we cannot agree to common definitions, then we have nothing to discuss. I am willing to alter the words that we use to discuss life & death.


Can you define the difference between a body that breaths, eats, and expells wastes, and a body that does none of these things.


If you can acknowledge that these 2 states of being exist, but refuse to call one living and one dead, please give me 2 names for these states of being.


I am fully prepared to discuss this subject using whatever words you choose for these 2 distinct states of being, but if you are unwilling to acknowledge these 2 states of being - then it is you who is confused about the "Truth", not I.

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8 years ago  ::  Feb 17, 2010 - 1:11PM #19
Passionatereason
Posts: 142

Feb 17, 2010 -- 1:47AM, Comradespirit wrote:


You ask far more questions then I am willing to even think about at any one time. This subject matter demands a deeper type of contemplation and not a rapid fire quizzing and critquing of each others beliefs.


I have spent my life contemplating these subjects at a deeper level. I apologize for moving too fast for you.


Feb 17, 2010 -- 1:47AM, Comradespirit wrote:

You asked:


"Your statement demands another question though. Most beings do indeed believe in this transition you speak of, but...
Some believe in "Heaven & Hell", and some believe in "Reincarnation".


Well I believe in a transition from one state of being to another. In this case from a bodily based experience of life through death to a subtle form of material life in the astral world and then back into a new bodily based life. This is reincarnation.


Now according to the results of one's past activities one's next life can be experienced in a heavenly, hellish or in-between set of circumstances.


You talk as if these are opposing concepts. They are not.



Actually, I do not talk as if these concepts are opposing. You have misunderstood what I have typed.
1st off though, we are substantially in agreement because we both believe that there is a transition from one "state of being to another". I have stated this clearly when I have said that neither energy nor mass appear out of nowhere, and they neither disappear into nothing.
Therefore, if this living body did not come from nothing, it must have come from something; and when this living body dies, it must therefore become something different.


You have not acknowledged this fact.


Instead you have decided to resort to the understanding that one receives from the "faith traditions". And in this, I have already stated that reincarnation and 'heaven/hell'  are both quite similar. They are similar in the following way:


you believe that a persons reincarnated state is determined by how one behaves in this lifetime.
In traditional Christianity (and Islam) the belief is that ones place in Heaven/Hell are determined by how one behaves in this lifetime also. In this manner then, they are identical.


What I am telling you is that if a being lives in harmony with "Truth" then that being need not worry about what happens after this life ends. This is true regardless of whether one believes in reincarnation, or one believes in this singular life followed by an eternity in heaven or hell. This is even true if one chooses not to speculate on what happens after a being dies.


I have no argument with any of these understandings, because I care not what happens after I die. I care not, because I live in harmony with "Truth" - regardless what you believe that "Truth" to be, because "Truth" just "IS" - regardless what any of us believe.


As I have stated previously...


"Truth" was, is, and always will be the same. It is only how one describes and explains this "Truth" that changes.


Would you now consider answering any of my previous questions now?


Or do you have any other questions that you would like to ask of me?

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8 years ago  ::  Feb 17, 2010 - 1:20PM #20
Passionatereason
Posts: 142

Feb 17, 2010 -- 12:30PM, williejhonlo wrote:

It does not matter if one believes in reincarnation or going too heaven and hell since basically they are the same thing.


In this, we are agreed.

Feb 17, 2010 -- 12:30PM, williejhonlo wrote:

It is said in the gita that those who die in the mode of goodness go upward to the higher heavenly planets and that those who die in ignorance go down to the hellish worlds. In the Bhagavid-gita it is stated that one can travel too different spheres of existence or stay on the earthly plain according to his karma. This travelling of the soul to different spheres and it taking different types of bodies to live on those spheres is called reincarnation.


If you choose to use the Bhagavid-gita as your guide, this is fine.
But my questions to you would be...


How can you be positive that you are interpreting the Bhagavid-gita in the manner that it was originally transmitted?
How can you be positive that you are following the instructions in the manner that they were originally intended?
And why do you believe I need the Bhagavid-gita to aid me in my desire to live according to "Truth"?

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