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Flag Comradespirit January 30, 2010 1:04 AM EST

We as eternal spiritual beings live under the constant fear of death, of losing our life. This is incredibly sad because we are in fact life and we are immortal by constituion.


Pyschologists generally tell us that to overcome an irrational fear that is harming our lives one has to learn  to face that fear straight on.


No one can be in a state of joy while experiencing such a fear.


 


Time to look death straight in it's vacuumus face and have a hearty life at the very thought of it being a reality.


There is no boogeyman.




 


 

Flag Comradespirit January 30, 2010 6:12 AM EST

To become free from the misconception of death it is necessary to come to the proper conception of ouselves. Afterall it is obvious that the physical body does indeed disolve away in time. So if we are the material body then death is a fact.


The question then is are we the material body or not? In an attempt to search out the answer within ourselves we can consider the following observation.


The body is constantly changing. But superfically it looks and feels so much like it did the day before that we don't give it a second thought. But if we look back at the different stages of growth the body has gone through we may be startled at what we see, or don't see.


For instance where is the 16 year old youthful body that was supposedly me at the time. I may have a picture that body taken at that age but it is so different then the body I have now at 58.  Which one is the real me? Or are they both illusory?


In fact that 16 year old form has long since died and gone away. Yet I have not died. I am still conscious of myself as a  individual being. Science tells us that not even one atom from that 16 year old body is still present in the present 58 year old one and when I look back on this 58 year old one from the body at 68 years I will see that the 58 year old form has also died away in a similar way. I will however still be there conscious of this whole phenomenon.


This proves that I am different from the phenomenon of changing matter. I am in fact the one constant in this ever changing world of matter. This shows quite clearly that I am something different from matter and not subject to the laws of death.


This indeed is most wonderful news IMO. We are all immortable. Only the body is born and dies.


For the soul there is never birth nor death. Nor, having once been, does he ever cease to be. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing, undying and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain. -Bhagavad-gita 2.20


 

Flag Comradespirit February 10, 2010 3:35 AM EST

The only death there is consists of soul's forgetting their position as eternal living beings and considering themselves mortal and subject to annihilation. Which is of course an illusion.


Jesus said,"Let the dead bury the dead."


God is eternal, ever existing. We are parts of God. Could we, as parts of God,  possibly be subjected to non-existence?

Flag Juli February 11, 2010 2:00 PM EST

I believe that death is only for the physical body itself.  Our spirit and soul lives on eternally after our physical body dies and this is what gives me hope that someday I will be reunited with my mother once again. 

Flag Comradespirit February 11, 2010 8:09 PM EST

Hi Juli,


 


I agree only the physical form is subject to so-called death. Yes it is very possible you will see the soul that played the part of your mother in this life after you transistion to the next realm. I have heard that relatives often help in the transition process itself. You both may even reincarnate together in a future life's drama where you are the mother and she the child or as sisters. There are many possibilities.


Since we have been on this wheel of birth and death for so many countless lifetimes we are always getting new mothers. Who can say how many we have had. Of course we are always very attached to the latest one.


I believe as spiritsoul our first goal should be to reunite with our  real Eternal Parent Who is the true source of our being.


What do you think?

Flag Comradespirit February 15, 2010 12:40 PM EST

Hi juli and others,


There is so much unnecessary grief felt upon the departing of friends and loved ones from this world.


Here Plato recounts the words of Socrates who upon having been sentenced to physical death grievs for his friend and student Crito because he perceives Crito has not understood his teaching that there is no death or necessity to grieve. Socrates new full well that death is an illusion.


 


The Death of Socrates, from Plato's  Phaedo


 


Then he turned to us, and added with a smile: "I cannot make Crito believe that I am the same Socrates who has been talking and conducting the argument; he fancies that I am the other Socrates whom he will soon see, a dead body--and he asks, How shall he bury me? And though I have spoken many words in the endeavor to show that when I have drunk the poison I shall leave you and go to the joys of the blessed--these words of mine, with which I was comforting you and myself, have had, as I perceive, no effect upon Crito. And therefore I want you to be surety for me to him how, as at the trial he was surety to the judges for me: but let the promise be of another sort; for he was surety for me to the judges that I would remain, and you must be my surety to him that I shall not remain, but go away and depart; and then he will suffer less at my death, and not be grieved when he sees my body being burned or buried. I would not have him sorrow at my hard lot, or say at the burial, Thus we lay out Socrates, or Thus we follow him to the grave or bury him; for false words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil. Be of good cheer then, my dear Crito, and say that you are burying my body only, and do with that whatever is usual, and what you think best."


-------------------


"Oh death, where is thy sting!"


 


 

Flag Passionatereason February 15, 2010 1:28 PM EST

Jan 30, 2010 -- 1:04AM, Comradespirit wrote:


We as eternal spiritual beings live under the constant fear of death, of losing our life. This is incredibly sad because we are in fact life and we are immortal by constituion.


Pyschologists generally tell us that to overcome an irrational fear that is harming our lives one has to learn  to face that fear straight on.


No one can be in a state of joy while experiencing such a fear.


 


Time to look death straight in it's vacuumus face and have a hearty life at the very thought of it being a reality.


There is no boogeyman.


And to this I can agree completely. But must one believe in karma, or reincarnation to agree with your statement? NO.


One need only understand that energy and mass cannot be created out of nothing; and neither will disappear into nothing.  Therefore, it is rather easy for me to understand that the 'energy' and 'mass' that is my being, was, is, and will be always there.


I need not believe in heaven, hell, or reincarnation to understand this.

Flag Comradespirit February 15, 2010 1:54 PM EST

But then you assume I am speaking of mere conservation of energy which I am not. You are free to believe whatever you like.

Flag Passionatereason February 15, 2010 8:41 PM EST

Feb 15, 2010 -- 1:54PM, Comradespirit wrote:


...You are free to believe whatever you like.



As are we all, you included.


You say 'death is a myth', and yet you also say...


"To become free from the misconception of death it is necessary to come to the proper conception of ouselves. Afterall it is obvious that the physical body does indeed disolve away in time. So if we are the material body then death is a fact."


Quite the "word game" you've got going here yourself.


Trust me when I tell you - I have no misconception, for I know the body dies - and I do not fear this fact.


 

Flag Comradespirit February 15, 2010 11:08 PM EST

"...I would not have him sorrow at my hard lot, or say at the burial, Thus we lay out Socrates, or Thus we follow him to the grave or bury him; for false words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil. Be of good cheer then, my dear Crito, and say that you are burying my body only, and do with that whatever is usual, and what you think best."


 


A very enlightened way to approach death. Socrates before death was exhorting his students to share in this enlightened understanding of death and they were save for Crito. And so it must be for our friends and loved ones who although perhaps not sharing in the pre-death enlightenment of Socrates certainly come to the same understand a moment after their final moments in the physical form. We often hear accounts of how they hover around those mourning for them and try to ease their pain by making their presence known hoping to convince those they have left on earth that there is no need to grieve for death is no at all what it often appears to be.


" The wise lament neither for the living or the dead." Bhagavad-gita

Flag Comradespirit February 15, 2010 11:21 PM EST

There is alot in this short account concerning Socrates and how he handle his impending departure from the body. For instance we see he was not at all interested in rather the body was burned or buried.


Often we become concerned with things like how or where we want the body to be buried or where we want our ashes placed. Timothy Leary wanted his ashes  shot into space.  Had he known he was not those ashes he would not have cared even a little.


This is how we should be about what is done with our mortal frames once we have discarded them. We should not care in the slightest.They can send mine to the Zoo to be feed to the wild animals for all I care. I won't be bothered in the slightest.


Don't look back. Forward towards the realm of Light.

Flag Passionatereason February 16, 2010 9:18 AM EST

Feb 15, 2010 -- 11:08PM, Comradespirit wrote:

"...Be of good cheer then, my dear Crito, and say that you are burying my body only, and do with that whatever is usual, and what you think best."


A very enlightened way to approach death....there is no need to grieve for death is no at all what it often appears to be.


Which is why those who know me, know that I care not what happens to my body after death. "Carve out the useful parts, and feed the rest to the dogs" I have always said.
This has been my "desire" for a long time, simply because I do understand the "Truth".


Feb 15, 2010 -- 11:08PM, Comradespirit wrote:

" The wise lament neither for the living or the dead." Bhagavad-gita


Quite true, but the wise & compassionate still attend the memorials & funerals of the dead.
They do this not to lament the dead, but out of compassion for the living who do not understand.
It is both wise & compassionate to show empathy towards the living.


While it is fine that you may need the Bhagavad-gita to help you understand...
There are other sources through which this understanding is available. These sources all speak to the same "Truth", one only needs to open their heart & mind to this fact, and the commonality will be discovered...


- and "peace of mind" will surely follow.

Flag Comradespirit February 16, 2010 9:44 AM EST

It's an odd thing how we humans try so hard to ignore the fact that death is there for all of us. That of course that we misunderstand it as the end of our being instead of just a transition from one state of living to another state of living.


 


We just block it out of our minds and don't include it in our life plans at all. In this western society especially we are exhorted to make plans for old age and retirement even from an early age. We are renided to make plans against the unexpected things that can happen. No one should enter old age ill-prepared.  But we ignore the next and final event which is a surety and that is death. This fear of death is only because we don't understand  the nature of the event. We have no idea how to prepare for it and feel absolutely helpless before it so we just cringe at the thought and try hard not to think about it.


Once we come to understand it as a transition from one stage of life to another  then we can contemplate it's meaning. Even before the braver and more curious among us can and do seek out some information about death. That being the purpose of this forum, Life After Death.


Most of us reading and posting here already are knowledgeable about our continued existence beyond death's door. So that raises a question for us.


Having accepted death as a transition to another dimension is there anyway we can effect that transition to insure we transition to a more favorable situation  vs. one not so favorable?


 

Flag Passionatereason February 16, 2010 4:21 PM EST

Feb 16, 2010 -- 9:44AM, Comradespirit wrote:


It's an odd thing how we humans try so hard to ignore the fact that death is there for all of us.


I thought this thread was to cover the belief that "death is just a myth". Do you now agree with me then, that death is unavoidable?

Feb 16, 2010 -- 9:44AM, Comradespirit wrote:

we misunderstand it as the end of our being


I misunderstand nothing concerning my impending death.

Feb 16, 2010 -- 9:44AM, Comradespirit wrote:

...instead of just a transition from one state of living to another state of living.


What do you believe is that 'other state of living', and why do believe this is so?

Feb 16, 2010 -- 9:44AM, Comradespirit wrote:

...But we ignore the next and final event which is a surety and that is death.


And once again, if you believe that death is but a myth, why have you just stated it is a surety?

Feb 16, 2010 -- 9:44AM, Comradespirit wrote:

This fear of death is only because we don't understand  the nature of the event.


I do not fear the inevitable. I worry not about the unprovable.

Feb 16, 2010 -- 9:44AM, Comradespirit wrote:

We have no idea how to prepare for it and feel absolutely helpless before it so we just cringe at the thought and try hard not to think about it.


It is inevitable, therefore one need not "prepare for it".
If a being wants "peace of mind" in this life though, then that being must understand "Truth". If a being is not able to understand "Truth", then I would agree, the next best thing is to choose a faith tradition, and follow its directions where it concerns "preparing for a better life after death".
These directions will generally lead a being to live a life that is closely related to "Truth", and they too will gain at least some "peace of mind".

Feb 16, 2010 -- 9:44AM, Comradespirit wrote:

Once we come to understand it as a transition from one stage of life to another  then we can contemplate it's meaning.


If a being comes to understand death as this transition, then that being will naturally want to contemplate it's meaning...


But if a being understands "Truth" and lives in harmony with this "Truth", then that being need not have any worries about death, or what is to happen if there is "Life after Death".

Feb 16, 2010 -- 9:44AM, Comradespirit wrote:

...Having accepted death as a transition to another dimension is there anyway we can effect that transition to insure we transition to a more favorable situation  vs. one not so favorable?


And your answer would be?


Your statement demands another question though. Most beings do indeed believe in this transition you speak of, but...
Some believe in "Heaven & Hell", and some believe in "Reincarnation".


Do you believe that it matters which belief a being clings to?


And if you, Comradespirit, are not willing to answer the questions that I have asked...


Is there anyone else willing to answer these questions?


I am surely willing to answer any questions asked of me.

Flag Comradespirit February 17, 2010 1:47 AM EST

You ask far more questions then I am willing to even think about at any one time. This subject matter demands a deeper type of contemplation and not a rapid fire quizzing and critquing of each others beliefs.


 


You asked:


"Your statement demands another question though. Most beings do indeed believe in this transition you speak of, but...
Some believe in "Heaven & Hell", and some believe in "Reincarnation".


 


Do you believe that it matters which belief a being clings to?"


Well I believe in a transition from one state of being to another. In this case from a bodily based experience of life through death to a subtle form of material life in the astral world and then back into a new bodily based life. This is reincarnation.


Now according to the results of one's past activities one's next life can be experienced in a heavenly, hellish or in-between set of circumstances.


You talk as if these are opposing concepts. They are not.

Flag williejhonlo February 17, 2010 12:07 PM EST

Death is a myth because we assume the body to be alive,but it is not. The body is composed of chemicals, but chemicals don't possess life. Since the body is not technically living it cannot die. Consciousness maintains and animates the body and because of this we wrongly misconstrue the body to be alive. In truth there's no difference between a living body and a so called dead one.

Flag williejhonlo February 17, 2010 12:30 PM EST

Feb 16, 2010 -- 4:21PM, Passionatereason wrote:


Feb 16, 2010 -- 9:44AM, Comradespirit wrote:


It's an odd thing how we humans try so hard to ignore the fact that death is there for all of us.


I thought this thread was to cover the belief that "death is just a myth". Do you now agree with me then, that death is unavoidable?

Feb 16, 2010 -- 9:44AM, Comradespirit wrote:

we misunderstand it as the end of our being


I misunderstand nothing concerning my impending death.

Feb 16, 2010 -- 9:44AM, Comradespirit wrote:

...instead of just a transition from one state of living to another state of living.


What do you believe is that 'other state of living', and why do believe this is so?

Feb 16, 2010 -- 9:44AM, Comradespirit wrote:

...But we ignore the next and final event which is a surety and that is death.


And once again, if you believe that death is but a myth, why have you just stated it is a surety?

Feb 16, 2010 -- 9:44AM, Comradespirit wrote:

This fear of death is only because we don't understand  the nature of the event.


I do not fear the inevitable. I worry not about the unprovable.

Feb 16, 2010 -- 9:44AM, Comradespirit wrote:

We have no idea how to prepare for it and feel absolutely helpless before it so we just cringe at the thought and try hard not to think about it.


It is inevitable, therefore one need not "prepare for it".
If a being wants "peace of mind" in this life though, then that being must understand "Truth". If a being is not able to understand "Truth", then I would agree, the next best thing is to choose a faith tradition, and follow its directions where it concerns "preparing for a better life after death".
These directions will generally lead a being to live a life that is closely related to "Truth", and they too will gain at least some "peace of mind".

Feb 16, 2010 -- 9:44AM, Comradespirit wrote:

Once we come to understand it as a transition from one stage of life to another  then we can contemplate it's meaning.


If a being comes to understand death as this transition, then that being will naturally want to contemplate it's meaning...


But if a being understands "Truth" and lives in harmony with this "Truth", then that being need not have any worries about death, or what is to happen if there is "Life after Death".

Feb 16, 2010 -- 9:44AM, Comradespirit wrote:

...Having accepted death as a transition to another dimension is there anyway we can effect that transition to insure we transition to a more favorable situation  vs. one not so favorable?


And your answer would be?


Your statement demands another question though. Most beings do indeed believe in this transition you speak of, but...
Some believe in "Heaven & Hell", and some believe in "Reincarnation".


Do you believe that it matters which belief a being clings to?


And if you, Comradespirit, are not willing to answer the questions that I have asked...


Is there anyone else willing to answer these questions?


I am surely willing to answer any questions asked of me.



It does not matter if one believes in reincarnation or going too heaven and hell since basically they are the same thing. It is said in the gita that those who die in the mode of goodness go upward to the higher heavenly planets and that those who die in ignorance go down to the hellish worlds. In the Bhagavid-gita it is stated that one can travel too different spheres of existence or stay on the earthly plain according to his karma. This travelling of the soul to different spheres and it taking different types of bodies to live on those spheres is called reincarnation.

Flag Passionatereason February 17, 2010 12:41 PM EST

Feb 17, 2010 -- 12:07PM, williejhonlo wrote:


Death is a myth because we assume the body to be alive,but it is not. The body is composed of chemicals, but chemicals don't possess life. Since the body is not technically living it cannot die. Consciousness maintains and animates the body and because of this we wrongly misconstrue the body to be alive. In truth there's no difference between a living body and a so called dead one.





Now it is you that is playing word games. If we cannot agree to common definitions, then we have nothing to discuss. I am willing to alter the words that we use to discuss life & death.


Can you define the difference between a body that breaths, eats, and expells wastes, and a body that does none of these things.


If you can acknowledge that these 2 states of being exist, but refuse to call one living and one dead, please give me 2 names for these states of being.


I am fully prepared to discuss this subject using whatever words you choose for these 2 distinct states of being, but if you are unwilling to acknowledge these 2 states of being - then it is you who is confused about the "Truth", not I.

Flag Passionatereason February 17, 2010 1:11 PM EST

Feb 17, 2010 -- 1:47AM, Comradespirit wrote:


You ask far more questions then I am willing to even think about at any one time. This subject matter demands a deeper type of contemplation and not a rapid fire quizzing and critquing of each others beliefs.


I have spent my life contemplating these subjects at a deeper level. I apologize for moving too fast for you.


Feb 17, 2010 -- 1:47AM, Comradespirit wrote:

You asked:


"Your statement demands another question though. Most beings do indeed believe in this transition you speak of, but...
Some believe in "Heaven & Hell", and some believe in "Reincarnation".


Well I believe in a transition from one state of being to another. In this case from a bodily based experience of life through death to a subtle form of material life in the astral world and then back into a new bodily based life. This is reincarnation.


Now according to the results of one's past activities one's next life can be experienced in a heavenly, hellish or in-between set of circumstances.


You talk as if these are opposing concepts. They are not.



Actually, I do not talk as if these concepts are opposing. You have misunderstood what I have typed.
1st off though, we are substantially in agreement because we both believe that there is a transition from one "state of being to another". I have stated this clearly when I have said that neither energy nor mass appear out of nowhere, and they neither disappear into nothing.
Therefore, if this living body did not come from nothing, it must have come from something; and when this living body dies, it must therefore become something different.


You have not acknowledged this fact.


Instead you have decided to resort to the understanding that one receives from the "faith traditions". And in this, I have already stated that reincarnation and 'heaven/hell'  are both quite similar. They are similar in the following way:


you believe that a persons reincarnated state is determined by how one behaves in this lifetime.
In traditional Christianity (and Islam) the belief is that ones place in Heaven/Hell are determined by how one behaves in this lifetime also. In this manner then, they are identical.


What I am telling you is that if a being lives in harmony with "Truth" then that being need not worry about what happens after this life ends. This is true regardless of whether one believes in reincarnation, or one believes in this singular life followed by an eternity in heaven or hell. This is even true if one chooses not to speculate on what happens after a being dies.


I have no argument with any of these understandings, because I care not what happens after I die. I care not, because I live in harmony with "Truth" - regardless what you believe that "Truth" to be, because "Truth" just "IS" - regardless what any of us believe.


As I have stated previously...


"Truth" was, is, and always will be the same. It is only how one describes and explains this "Truth" that changes.


Would you now consider answering any of my previous questions now?


Or do you have any other questions that you would like to ask of me?

Flag Passionatereason February 17, 2010 1:20 PM EST

Feb 17, 2010 -- 12:30PM, williejhonlo wrote:

It does not matter if one believes in reincarnation or going too heaven and hell since basically they are the same thing.


In this, we are agreed.

Feb 17, 2010 -- 12:30PM, williejhonlo wrote:

It is said in the gita that those who die in the mode of goodness go upward to the higher heavenly planets and that those who die in ignorance go down to the hellish worlds. In the Bhagavid-gita it is stated that one can travel too different spheres of existence or stay on the earthly plain according to his karma. This travelling of the soul to different spheres and it taking different types of bodies to live on those spheres is called reincarnation.


If you choose to use the Bhagavid-gita as your guide, this is fine.
But my questions to you would be...


How can you be positive that you are interpreting the Bhagavid-gita in the manner that it was originally transmitted?
How can you be positive that you are following the instructions in the manner that they were originally intended?
And why do you believe I need the Bhagavid-gita to aid me in my desire to live according to "Truth"?

Flag williejhonlo February 17, 2010 2:04 PM EST

Feb 17, 2010 -- 12:41PM, Passionatereason wrote:


Feb 17, 2010 -- 12:07PM, williejhonlo wrote:


Death is a myth because we assume the body to be alive,but it is not. The body is composed of chemicals, but chemicals don't possess life. Since the body is not technically living it cannot die. Consciousness maintains and animates the body and because of this we wrongly misconstrue the body to be alive. In truth there's no difference between a living body and a so called dead one.





Now it is you that is playing word games. If we cannot agree to common definitions, then we have nothing to discuss. I am willing to alter the words that we use to discuss life & death.


Can you define the difference between a body that breaths, eats, and expells wastes, and a body that does none of these things.


If you can acknowledge that these 2 states of being exist, but refuse to call one living and one dead, please give me 2 names for these states of being.


I am fully prepared to discuss this subject using whatever words you choose for these 2 distinct states of being, but if you are unwilling to acknowledge these 2 states of being - then it is you who is confused about the "Truth", not I.



The body breathes and eats due to the energy that consciousness provides. If consciousness is not present the body would lack the energy for this. As Prabhupada said, a dead child does not grow up. We call the body living, but it is not existence, it is not essence. The "so called" living state is just called living because of the presence of consciousness. To say the body is living is just a collection of words, chemicals don't have life.

Flag williejhonlo February 17, 2010 2:09 PM EST

Feb 17, 2010 -- 1:20PM, Passionatereason wrote:


Feb 17, 2010 -- 12:30PM, williejhonlo wrote:

It does not matter if one believes in reincarnation or going too heaven and hell since basically they are the same thing.


In this, we are agreed.

Feb 17, 2010 -- 12:30PM, williejhonlo wrote:

It is said in the gita that those who die in the mode of goodness go upward to the higher heavenly planets and that those who die in ignorance go down to the hellish worlds. In the Bhagavid-gita it is stated that one can travel too different spheres of existence or stay on the earthly plain according to his karma. This travelling of the soul to different spheres and it taking different types of bodies to live on those spheres is called reincarnation.


If you choose to use the Bhagavid-gita as your guide, this is fine.
But my questions to you would be...


How can you be positive that you are interpreting the Bhagavid-gita in the manner that it was originally transmitted?
How can you be positive that you are following the instructions in the manner that they were originally intended?
And why do you believe I need the Bhagavid-gita to aid me in my desire to live according to "Truth"?



Read the gita chapter fourteen and if you think i misinterpret correct me. As far as "truth" how do you define it?

Flag Comradespirit February 17, 2010 3:53 PM EST

Feb 17, 2010 -- 12:07PM, williejhonlo wrote:


Death is a myth because we assume the body to be alive,but it is not. The body is composed of chemicals, but chemicals don't possess life. Since the body is not technically living it cannot die. Consciousness maintains and animates the body and because of this we wrongly misconstrue the body to be alive. In truth there's no difference between a living body and a so called dead one.




Exactly. The consciousness is the life symptom of the soul and they are in spearable. Right now we are falsely thinking we are the body which is perishable. When we rightly come to understand ourselves as the animatimg force as pointed out above our fear of death or ceasing to be will vanish just like a bad dream does when we awaken.

Flag Passionatereason February 18, 2010 9:32 AM EST

Feb 17, 2010 -- 2:04PM, williejhonlo wrote:


The body breathes and eats due to the energy that consciousness provides. If consciousness is not present the body would lack the energy for this.


Which just serves to verify what I have already said about 'energy' and 'mass'. Thank you.

Feb 17, 2010 -- 2:04PM, williejhonlo wrote:

The "so called" living state is just called living because of the presence of consciousness. To say the body is living is just a collection of words, chemicals don't have life.


To say the body is "living" is one word that is generally used within the english language for that state of being that you, yourself, have decided to call "so called living". You are the one using a "collection of words", not I. The fact is, there is one word that can be used.


But it is fine with me whatever collection you use, I only desire that we may communicate. To communicate, we must understand each other. Therefore, when I address you, I will use the collection of words, "so called living" when most everyone else is quite satisfied, and understands, that I mean "living".


Since this particular discussion conderns whether or not "death" is a myth, would you now please tell me what collection of words you would like to use to describe what is (in the english language) commonly refered to as "death"?


Understand this though, any discomfort you find in my words - is discomfort caused by your own misunderstanding. When you truly understand what "Truth" is - the words used to describe it are only important to those who misunderstand.


Feb 17, 2010 -- 2:04PM, williejhonlo wrote:

...As Prabhupada said...


I have already asked you to state your understanding absent of any "faith tradition" texts.


There are forums within beliefnet for discussions of Eastern religions, and there are forums to discuss Western religions, this forum is for discussing Death & Grief>Life after Death> (and this particular thread)Death is a Myth.


While I am prepared to exlpain to you where your Eastern "faith traditions" correspond with "Truth", I am equally prepared to discuss where Western "faith traditions" correspond with "Truth", as I am fully prepared to explain "Truth" using no "faith traditions".


As I keep repeating, "Truth" is, was, and always will be the same. "Truth" is never changing, only the manner in which it is explained.


It matters not to "Truth" whether the english language calls living, "living"; or whether you choose to call "living", "so called living" - we are describing exactly the same state of being.

Flag Passionatereason February 18, 2010 9:56 AM EST

Feb 17, 2010 -- 2:09PM, williejhonlo wrote:

Read the gita chapter fourteen and if you think i misinterpret correct me.


While I have already stated that this forum is not about 'eastern religions', I will break out my copy later this afternoon. Realize though, unless you read ancient sanskrit, and have an original copy, how can you be positive what you have read, is actually what was meant those many, many, many, years ago?


If I ask you to refer to the Christian Bible, the Koran, or any one of a number of Buddhist texts would you do this? If you ask me to do this, I am quite prepared, since I already own these and several other "faith tradition" texts.

Feb 17, 2010 -- 2:09PM, williejhonlo wrote:

As far as "truth" how do you define it?


So that we may have a common understanding, I rely on the dictionary to define "Truth": The true or actual state of a matter; conformity with fact or reality.


If we can agree on this definition of "Truth" then it will be easier for us to communicate. "Truth" is easy to see, the hard part is living in harmony with "Truth".


This is what our "faith traditions" attempt to do, they attempt to teach a being how to live in harmony with "Truth". But it should be obvious to all concerned that misunderstandings have arisen within the "faith traditions".


My only desire is to help those who understand this fact, to once again understand what living in harmony with "Truth" means.

Flag williejhonlo February 18, 2010 12:19 PM EST

Feb 18, 2010 -- 9:56AM, Passionatereason wrote:


Feb 17, 2010 -- 2:09PM, williejhonlo wrote:

Read the gita chapter fourteen and if you think i misinterpret correct me.


While I have already stated that this forum is not about 'eastern religions', I will break out my copy later this afternoon. Realize though, unless you read ancient sanskrit, and have an original copy, how can you be positive what you have read, is actually what was meant those many, many, many, years ago?


If I ask you to refer to the Christian Bible, the Koran, or any one of a number of Buddhist texts would you do this? If you ask me to do this, I am quite prepared, since I already own these and several other "faith tradition" texts.

Feb 17, 2010 -- 2:09PM, williejhonlo wrote:

As far as "truth" how do you define it?


So that we may have a common understanding, I rely on the dictionary to define "Truth": The true or actual state of a matter; conformity with fact or reality.


If we can agree on this definition of "Truth" then it will be easier for us to communicate. "Truth" is easy to see, the hard part is living in harmony with "Truth".


This is what our "faith traditions" attempt to do, they attempt to teach a being how to live in harmony with "Truth". But it should be obvious to all concerned that misunderstandings have arisen within the "faith traditions".


My only desire is to help those who understand this fact, to once again understand what living in harmony with "Truth" means.



Question, how did the people who made the dictionary come to their conclusion of what truth is? How we see things is relative to the seers, as it is said, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" people have differing minds that's why they come to different conclusions about things. To me in my honest opinion, "truth" is that which allows me to know anything subjective or objective, and that is my consciousness. Consciousness is the one thing no one can deny since to do so would be an act of consciousness. You take consciousness out of the equation and how could any disscussion about "truth" ever exist.

Flag williejhonlo February 18, 2010 12:38 PM EST

Feb 18, 2010 -- 9:32AM, Passionatereason wrote:


Feb 17, 2010 -- 2:04PM, williejhonlo wrote:


The body breathes and eats due to the energy that consciousness provides. If consciousness is not present the body would lack the energy for this.


Which just serves to verify what I have already said about 'energy' and 'mass'. Thank you.

Feb 17, 2010 -- 2:04PM, williejhonlo wrote:

The "so called" living state is just called living because of the presence of consciousness. To say the body is living is just a collection of words, chemicals don't have life.


To say the body is "living" is one word that is generally used within the english language for that state of being that you, yourself, have decided to call "so called living". You are the one using a "collection of words", not I. The fact is, there is one word that can be used.


But it is fine with me whatever collection you use, I only desire that we may communicate. To communicate, we must understand each other. Therefore, when I address you, I will use the collection of words, "so called living" when most everyone else is quite satisfied, and understands, that I mean "living".


Since this particular discussion conderns whether or not "death" is a myth, would you now please tell me what collection of words you would like to use to describe what is (in the english language) commonly refered to as "death"?


Understand this though, any discomfort you find in my words - is discomfort caused by your own misunderstanding. When you truly understand what "Truth" is - the words used to describe it are only important to those who misunderstand.


Feb 17, 2010 -- 2:04PM, williejhonlo wrote:

...As Prabhupada said...


I have already asked you to state your understanding absent of any "faith tradition" texts.


There are forums within beliefnet for discussions of Eastern religions, and there are forums to discuss Western religions, this forum is for discussing Death & Grief>Life after Death> (and this particular thread)Death is a Myth.


While I am prepared to exlpain to you where your Eastern "faith traditions" correspond with "Truth", I am equally prepared to discuss where Western "faith traditions" correspond with "Truth", as I am fully prepared to explain "Truth" using no "faith traditions".


As I keep repeating, "Truth" is, was, and always will be the same. "Truth" is never changing, only the manner in which it is explained.


It matters not to "Truth" whether the english language calls living, "living"; or whether you choose to call "living", "so called living" - we are describing exactly the same state of being.



The body is like a machine once it breaks down or is no longer of any use our consciousness must vacate the premises. This is what is called death. The body is matter and matter cannot die, your car, home, building where you work, may become destroyed and then unmanifested but to say any of them died would be quite an erroneous statement.

Flag Passionatereason February 18, 2010 2:37 PM EST

Feb 17, 2010 -- 2:09PM, williejhonlo wrote:


Read the gita chapter fourteen and if you think i misinterpret correct me. As far as "truth" how do you define it?


I must apoligize, for I mispoke originally. I have a copy of the Rig Veda, not the Bhagavad Gita. I have located an online copy though and have begun reading chapter 14 as you have suggested. Something struck me as very insightful early on though...


14.6: "O sinless one, the mode of goodness, being purer than the others, is illuminating, and it frees one from all sinful reactions. Those situated in that mode become conditioned by a sense of happiness and knowledge."


This appears to be pretty much what I have discovered without the aid of this text. The only difference being that I have labeled 'happiness' as "peace of mind" and "knowledge" as "understanding".


I have discovered this truth without the Bhagavad Gita, and without any concern about my 'afterlife'.


and in 14.2: "By becoming fixed in this knowledge, one can attain to the transcendental nature like My own. Thus established, one is not born at the time of creation or disturbed at the time of dissolution."


Which again, says to me that when one is fixed in this understanding, one need have no concern about death & what may happen afterwards. Just as I have already stated. Again, I've discovered this without the aid fo your Bhagavad Gita. This Bhagavad Gita only serves to confirm what I already understand.


it goes on to describe the different modes: goodness, passion, and ignorance. I can agree with much of what is written about these.


And in 14.20, this is written: "When the embodied being is able to transcend these three modes associated with the material body, he can become free from birth, death, old age and their distresses and can enjoy nectar even in this life."


This my friend would be Nirvana, the "Truth" that 'sets one free', and what I simply call as "peace of mind". Please note, that it is stated this condition can be attained in this life. Which is exactly what others have claimed, and what I claim.


If one attains this condition, then one becomes free from the distresses of birth, death, old age, etc.


Again, this is what I am saying - without the aid of your Bhagavad Gita.  This is what is said in a different manner by others, and they to did not use the Bhagavad Gita as their guide.


As I have already stated, "faith traditions" set up goals for believers to attain. Just as in Buddhist & Christian belief, the Bhagavad Gita tells one how to reach this goal before death, and also tells what will happen after death, if you don't reach this goal. High planets/this planet/animal kingdom - which is the classic definition of reincarnation, which is quite different from Heaven/Hell as believed by Christians/Moslems. Yet, we have already agreed on how these 2 definitions of the after-this-life are similar.


I am unconcerned with what happens after death, because I understand what is required to attain this goal while living.


To put this simply, I say that "Truth" is that which conforms to reality; That there are 2 realities: the conceptual & the physical, and a being is responsible for these 2 realities -


To act in harmony with "Truth" you must accept this fact: You, and You alone, are responsible for all that you do (physical reality), and all that you perceive (conceptual reality).


When you pass these responsibilities to another entity, you cannot live in harmony with "Truth". When you are not living in harmony with "Truth", you will fear this "Truth".


In this, I believe that I am in substantial agreement with all "faith traditions" - but I need no ancient texts to tell me this.


 

Flag Passionatereason February 18, 2010 3:03 PM EST

Feb 18, 2010 -- 12:19PM, williejhonlo wrote:

Question, how did the people who made the dictionary come to their conclusion of what truth is?


They've come to this conclusion in order for us to be able to communicate effectively.

Feb 18, 2010 -- 12:19PM, williejhonlo wrote:

How we see things is relative to the seers, as it is said, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" people have differing minds that's why they come to different conclusions about things.


Which, once again, leads me to ask the same question as it pertains to the various "faith tradition" texts.
Why do you seem so certain that the Bhagavad Gita has come to the correct conclusions itself?


From my brief readings, I will agree that it has come to many correct conclusions - but where it speaks of the "here-after-this life" it is complete and utter speculation as far as I am concerned. Speculation that is uneeded for one to live a life with "peace of mind". I have come to this same conclusion as to the other "faith traditions" also.


This does not mean that I do not respect these "faith traditions" - I do respect them. My concern is with how they are being understood in this day & time.


My concern is also with those that would say "Truth is relative". For "Truth" is indeed NOT relative - Only how "Truth" is told.


Those that believe truth is relative are invariably atheists. Atheists are not completely honest because they choose to deny that which is unprovable. I do not deny the unprovable, I am merely unconcerned with the unprovable, but understand why some must have an answer to the unprovable - religion gives these answers.


Just as I attend funerals/memorials as a compassionate response for the living, It is compassion that I have for those who need these religious answer to the unprovable.


 

Flag Comradespirit February 18, 2010 4:08 PM EST

There are thousands of questions one can discuss on "faith tradions" etc. that are all good and valuable questions worthy of giving attention to. However I started this particular thread to discuss just one as the central theme and that is the nature of what we call death.


Please don't hijack the thread with other topics.


 


Thank you.

Flag Passionatereason February 18, 2010 5:58 PM EST

Feb 18, 2010 -- 4:08PM, Comradespirit wrote:


There are thousands of questions one can discuss on "faith tradions" etc. that are all good and valuable questions worthy of giving attention to. However I started this particular thread to discuss just one as the central theme and that is the nature of what we call death.


Please don't hijack the thread with other topics.


Thank you.



I am sorry if you feel that I have "hijacked" the thread. Many of the issues that have been raised concern "what we call death", what happens after we die, and is there a course of action that can be taken to insure we "arrive" in a better place. These are all interrelated, would you not agree?


I have just gone back to read your introductory posts to this thread. It would appear to me that you have indeed touched on the very subjects I have discussed.


Jan 30, 2010 -- 1:04AM, Comradespirit wrote:

We as eternal spiritual beings live under the constant fear of death, of losing our life. This is incredibly sad because we are in fact life and we are immortal by constituion.


Pyschologists generally tell us that to overcome an irrational fear that is harming our lives one has to learn  to face that fear straight on.


No one can be in a state of joy while experiencing such a fear.


Time to look death straight in it's vacuumus face and have a hearty life at the very thought of it being a reality.


There is no boogeyman.


This is exactly what I have said, and I have told you that I have no fear of death. I have explained specifically why I do not have this fear. I have also hinted at what I have discovered in order that others may loose this fear. 


Jan 30, 2010 -- 6:12AM, Comradespirit wrote:

To become free from the misconception of death it is necessary to come to the proper conception of ouselves. Afterall it is obvious that the physical body does indeed disolve away in time. So if we are the material body then death is a fact.


The question then is are we the material body or not?


I have clearly stated that we are both the physical body & the conceptual body. I have also clearly stated that both physical & conceptual neither came from nothingness, nor will return to nothingness.


Again, I have hinted at what it takes to become free from the misconceptions that one holds that causes the fear you have spoken of.


I have not gone into deep detail, primarily because this discussion does not warrant it.


Feb 11, 2010 -- 2:00PM, Juli wrote:

I believe that death is only for the physical body itself.  Our spirit and soul lives on eternally after our physical body dies and this is what gives me hope that someday I will be reunited with my mother once again.


Juli has made a statement that contradicts your belief in 'reincarnation'. You have gone and twisted this for your own purpose, and explained how Juli may possibly be with her mother once again - in a reincarnated state.


Juli has not posted in this thread since.


I am willing to continue the conversation though.


As I have stated previously, if you are seeking confirmation of your exact beliefs in the exact terminology you desire, you should have started this thread in an 'Eastern Religion' forum.


But you have started this thread in a 'Death & Grief' > 'Life After Death' > forum and stated that 'Death is a myth'. I have engaged you, and williejhonlo, in this discussion of 'death is a myth'.
Because I am neither a practitioner of Eastern nor Western "faith traditions", I have explained to you how your belief is similar to my understanding, and have pointed out the differences.


I have even taken a look at your Bhagavad Gita and found that it reflects my understanding on the subject rather well.


I am truly sorry if you are uncomfortable with the way the thread is going. But this is your discomfort, not mine.


What exactly were you expecting, when you stated "death is a myth"?


I have only asked 2 questions in this post, would you answer them? (okay, this is now the 3rd question, but just as the 1st, it can be answered with a simple yes or no)

Flag Comradespirit February 18, 2010 8:07 PM EST

 


And whoever, at the time of death, quits his body, remembering Me alone, at once attains My nature. Of this there is no doubt.  Bhagavad-gita 8.5


There is great empahasis given by sages past and present upon the importance of the state of consciousness we possess at the very moment when we make our final exit from the body. The yogis taught that at he moment of death the most prominent thing thing in our life just lived rises up to become prominent in our minds at the moment of death. This is why some people try to spend as much time praying, chanting one of God's innumerable names, readin and discussion scripture and devotional topics as well as enaging in practical day to day service to  God in various ways. They know that all this activity will influence their mind at the time of death to remember the Lord and doing so they may go to him ending the cycle of repeated birth and death in this material world.


 


But of course remembering God is never just mechanical, it requires God's grace. I know of no better example of this than that of one of the theives that were crucified next to Christ. During the last moments of his life one theif came to have faith in Christ and His message and made it known to Jesus. Jesus told him that on this day he would see him in paradise.


Nevertheless it is best to show the Lord we have great interest in receiving His mercy and try to remember Him at all times.


In this way the moment of passing from the body can become a great pivot point and change the whole circumstance of our life from living under the shadow of birth and death to one of enjoying the full nectar of immortality.

Flag williejhonlo February 19, 2010 1:16 PM EST

Feb 18, 2010 -- 3:03PM, Passionatereason wrote:


Feb 18, 2010 -- 12:19PM, williejhonlo wrote:

Question, how did the people who made the dictionary come to their conclusion of what truth is?


They've come to this conclusion in order for us to be able to communicate effectively.

Feb 18, 2010 -- 12:19PM, williejhonlo wrote:

How we see things is relative to the seers, as it is said, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" people have differing minds that's why they come to different conclusions about things.


Which, once again, leads me to ask the same question as it pertains to the various "faith tradition" texts.
Why do you seem so certain that the Bhagavad Gita has come to the correct conclusions itself?


From my brief readings, I will agree that it has come to many correct conclusions - but where it speaks of the "here-after-this life" it is complete and utter speculation as far as I am concerned. Speculation that is uneeded for one to live a life with "peace of mind". I have come to this same conclusion as to the other "faith traditions" also.


This does not mean that I do not respect these "faith traditions" - I do respect them. My concern is with how they are being understood in this day & time.


My concern is also with those that would say "Truth is relative". For "Truth" is indeed NOT relative - Only how "Truth" is told.


Those that believe truth is relative are invariably atheists. Atheists are not completely honest because they choose to deny that which is unprovable. I do not deny the unprovable, I am merely unconcerned with the unprovable, but understand why some must have an answer to the unprovable - religion gives these answers.


Just as I attend funerals/memorials as a compassionate response for the living, It is compassion that I have for those who need these religious answer to the unprovable.


 



Peace of mind is nice but while living in the material world one is confronted with a host of miseries such as natural calamities and problems pertaining to the body. Life can throw you a curve sometimes. The religious text as you call them teaches that consciousness is not of this material nature but is conditioned by it. This makes consciousness foreign to nature, something imported, therefore true happiness comes from connecting with source ( God ). The Buddhist of Tibet had peace of mind but look how they were harassed by the chinese government and army. You can live in peace and still be a victim of a crime. Peace in this world is not lasting but temporary. True peace comes when you transcend it altogether. You say truth is not relative and this is true as long as it relates to consciousness since consciousness is the one absolute requirement to know truth, but on the mental plain it is relative since people have different outlooks on life. You may get peace of mind by meditation on some void and that may make you happy, but someone else may think the acquisitions of money and power are what brings them happiness and peace of mind.

Flag williejhonlo February 19, 2010 2:04 PM EST

Feb 18, 2010 -- 2:37PM, Passionatereason wrote:


Feb 17, 2010 -- 2:09PM, williejhonlo wrote:


Read the gita chapter fourteen and if you think i misinterpret correct me. As far as "truth" how do you define it?


I must apoligize, for I mispoke originally. I have a copy of the Rig Veda, not the Bhagavad Gita. I have located an online copy though and have begun reading chapter 14 as you have suggested. Something struck me as very insightful early on though...


14.6: "O sinless one, the mode of goodness, being purer than the others, is illuminating, and it frees one from all sinful reactions. Those situated in that mode become conditioned by a sense of happiness and knowledge."


This appears to be pretty much what I have discovered without the aid of this text. The only difference being that I have labeled 'happiness' as "peace of mind" and "knowledge" as "understanding".


I have discovered this truth without the Bhagavad Gita, and without any concern about my 'afterlife'.


and in 14.2: "By becoming fixed in this knowledge, one can attain to the transcendental nature like My own. Thus established, one is not born at the time of creation or disturbed at the time of dissolution."


Which again, says to me that when one is fixed in this understanding, one need have no concern about death & what may happen afterwards. Just as I have already stated. Again, I've discovered this without the aid fo your Bhagavad Gita. This Bhagavad Gita only serves to confirm what I already understand.


it goes on to describe the different modes: goodness, passion, and ignorance. I can agree with much of what is written about these.


And in 14.20, this is written: "When the embodied being is able to transcend these three modes associated with the material body, he can become free from birth, death, old age and their distresses and can enjoy nectar even in this life."


This my friend would be Nirvana, the "Truth" that 'sets one free', and what I simply call as "peace of mind". Please note, that it is stated this condition can be attained in this life. Which is exactly what others have claimed, and what I claim.


If one attains this condition, then one becomes free from the distresses of birth, death, old age, etc.


Again, this is what I am saying - without the aid of your Bhagavad Gita.  This is what is said in a different manner by others, and they to did not use the Bhagavad Gita as their guide.


As I have already stated, "faith traditions" set up goals for believers to attain. Just as in Buddhist & Christian belief, the Bhagavad Gita tells one how to reach this goal before death, and also tells what will happen after death, if you don't reach this goal. High planets/this planet/animal kingdom - which is the classic definition of reincarnation, which is quite different from Heaven/Hell as believed by Christians/Moslems. Yet, we have already agreed on how these 2 definitions of the after-this-life are similar.


I am unconcerned with what happens after death, because I understand what is required to attain this goal while living.


To put this simply, I say that "Truth" is that which conforms to reality; That there are 2 realities: the conceptual & the physical, and a being is responsible for these 2 realities -


To act in harmony with "Truth" you must accept this fact: You, and You alone, are responsible for all that you do (physical reality), and all that you perceive (conceptual reality).


When you pass these responsibilities to another entity, you cannot live in harmony with "Truth". When you are not living in harmony with "Truth", you will fear this "Truth".


In this, I believe that I am in substantial agreement with all "faith traditions" - but I need no ancient texts to tell me this.


 



Your comment about verse 14.2 about having no concern of death when one achieves a nature like God is correct when one becomes Brahman realized, but what about those who don't ? Also those conditioned by the mode of goodness may bring them happiness but these modes are still material and the results they give are material and therefore temporary. On your comment on verse 14.20 it refers to verse 14.26 which says " one who engages in full devotional service, unfailing in all circumstances at once transcends the modes of nature and thus comes to the level of Brahman." Bhakti ( devotional service is emphasized not nirvana ) Concerning your question what happens after death what is written by most of the major religions is that the soul travels to different spheres of material existence according to its karma which is fueled by its desire. The point is that it is the soul that goes through this process and not the body therefore the soul never dies it just takes on new bodies. Bodies cannot die, souls cannot die, in truth nothing dies, when the temporary body gets worn out and is no longer habitable you the soul must vacate and accept another body which is prepared for you by nature.

Flag Passionatereason February 19, 2010 6:17 PM EST

I'd really like to carry on the conversation with you williejohnlo, but according to Comradespirit, I've hijacked the thread.


In defference to his concerns, and to allow him to preach unhindered, I am not posting in this thread any longer.


I see now that you have posted in a thread I started before following this one. We can continue our conversation there. I would ask that you continue posting here though...


I request this so that Comradespirit won't have to talk to himself.

Flag Comradespirit February 23, 2010 1:43 PM EST

krishnaisgreat.com/wordpress/wp-content/...


 


 


(For some reason the image won't come up but at least the link does)


 


This picture depicts the great self-realizaed saint Sukadeva Gosvami on the instructors chair and the great king Maharaja Pariksit before him in the humble inquiring position. Seated around them are the most learned sages of India at the time who can to hear the conversation between these two great souls.


Maharaja Pariksit had been cursed to die within seven days so he immediately sought out the self realized Sukadeva Gosvami  to hear from him about the nature of God, the material universe, his relationship with them and specifically his duty at the time of the death event which was pressing upon him. This is the position of all of us so in this sense Pariksit is also questioning on our behalf.


Of course we can't assume to ever be in such a position as Maharaja Pariksit who was a God conscious king his whole life. He is performing the  sacrifice of fasting from food and sleep for his last seven days and becoming absolutely withdrawn from all wordlty concerns and fixing his consciousness 100% on the Personality of Godhead.


For many of us death will come in some unexpected way and time catching us unaware. This why the sages recommend that we spend our entire lives cultivating both self and God realization so that at the death event we will be prepared.


No different then studying for a final exam in school. The death event is the final exam of a human life and we should want to pass this exam and graduate to the next pregressive level of consciousness if not complete God consciousness.


How we live will determine our consciousness at death and our consciousness at death will determine the quality of our next life.


I have no doubt that on this forum everyone will agree we should make all efforts to move towards the Land of Light and not just wait until the death experience to begin this move.


Futher in this present culture where madness for material gain is being forcfully impressed upon us from all sides we need to encourage each other and helpeach other keep focus on the higher goal.


May God please help us.


Hare Krishna

Flag williejhonlo February 23, 2010 2:33 PM EST

The image came up for me. Good post comrade, the reason we exist is for the pastimes of the Lord and we have to past through different bodies until we realize this.

Flag Comradespirit February 23, 2010 3:18 PM EST

Feb 23, 2010 -- 2:33PM, williejhonlo wrote:


The image came up for me. Good post comrade, the reason we exist is for the pastimes of the Lord and we have to past through different bodies until we realize this.


Willie prabhu,


Was the image present on the post itself or only the link? I know the link works. Bnet may have disabled the image function to preserve bandwidth or something.


Yes realizatyion seems to take a long time but we just have yo make sure we are at least moving in the right direction.


 


 

Flag williejhonlo February 24, 2010 12:43 PM EST

Feb 23, 2010 -- 3:18PM, Comradespirit wrote:



Feb 23, 2010 -- 2:33PM, williejhonlo wrote:


The image came up for me. Good post comrade, the reason we exist is for the pastimes of the Lord and we have to past through different bodies until we realize this.


Willie prabhu,


Was the image present on the post itself or only the link? I know the link works. Bnet may have disabled the image function to preserve bandwidth or something.


Yes realizatyion seems to take a long time but we just have yo make sure we are at least moving in the right direction.


 


 


prabhu, it only came through on the link.

Flag Passionatereason March 11, 2010 10:27 PM EST

(remember, all that I have written was true when I typed it, all that I write now is true as I am typing it)

Jan 30, 2010 -- 1:04AM, Comradespirit wrote:

There is no boogeyman.


Oh yes there is!!


He was next door just yesterday! Love did not want him to bother us, I didn't really care either way. Love has a longer history with the boogeyman, and does not trust him completely. Everytime I have met the boogeyman, we have got along fine.

Flag Passionatereason March 11, 2010 10:43 PM EST

Feb 23, 2010 -- 1:43PM, Comradespirit wrote:

This why the sages recommend that we spend our entire lives cultivating both self and God realization so that at the death event we will be prepared.


And yet I am prepared, and have no clue when the death event will happen. Wait a minute, didn't you say 'death was a myth'.


Why are you talking of the death event, if you believe death is but a myth?

Feb 23, 2010 -- 1:43PM, Comradespirit wrote:

No different then studying for a final exam in school. The death event is the final exam of a human life and we should want to pass this exam


I have already passed that exam. Tomorrow you will have an opportunity to understand why.

Feb 23, 2010 -- 1:43PM, Comradespirit wrote:

graduate to the next pregressive level of consciousness if not complete God consciousness.


I am only a man, I was a man before enlightenment, I am still a man. My consciousness has become as one with the Universal Truth, that's all that has happened.


Feb 23, 2010 -- 1:43PM, Comradespirit wrote:

How we live will determine our consciousness at death


True

Feb 23, 2010 -- 1:43PM, Comradespirit wrote:

and our consciousness at death will determine the quality of our next life.


I don't have a clue about that.  But I can tell you of the Universal Truth.

Feb 23, 2010 -- 1:43PM, Comradespirit wrote:

I have no doubt that on this forum everyone will agree we should make all efforts to move towards the Land of Light and not just wait until the death experience to begin this move.


This I can agree with.

Feb 23, 2010 -- 1:43PM, Comradespirit wrote:

Futher in this present culture where madness for material gain is being forcfully impressed upon us from all sides


force is not an impression, but lying can create an impression on the consiousness. These are the many distractions that I have been talking about.

Feb 23, 2010 -- 1:43PM, Comradespirit wrote:

we need to encourage each other and helpeach other keep focus on the higher goal.


This is correct.

Feb 23, 2010 -- 1:43PM, Comradespirit wrote:

May God please help us.


but you just said that we need to help each other. Wouldn't it be correct to say that if we help each other then Allah will be pleased?




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