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4 years ago  ::  Jul 17, 2010 - 2:50PM #31
williejhonlo
Posts: 3,908

Jul 17, 2010 -- 9:48AM, natureboy_the0 wrote:


Jul 16, 2010 -- 2:39PM, williejhonlo wrote:


Natureboy, I see you believe in an impersonal absolute since you believe in sharing a likeness. To me though sharing a likeness also means that we share personality as well. If God knows that he is, ( I AM, THAT I AM ) would mean that he knows his own existence this to me denotes personality. You have Jesus praying to God and addressing him as ( abba ) Father and him telling the story of the prodical son thus establishing our relationship with God. This story also implies that life is eternal since we come from Heaven and decide to go back as soon as we realize the futility of material existence, as which is implied by the story. All in all i would say God is an entity ( personality ) as well as something impersonal which is what a lot of Hindus believe.



Willie,


If you understood when I said "life is learning existence by living it" means we will live every fractured part of the existence's personality, each honeycomb cell and then become the lifeforce of the whole of existence you would see, if I accepted god's existence, it would be my own lifeforce.  If you realize when Jesus was on the cross and cried "my god, my god, why have you forsaken me" was his flesh crying to his lifeforce he saw exiting his body, you would realize all his prayers were flesh to lifeforce.  That would cause you to realize if I accepted the concept of god, it would be personal.



I always interpreted his prayers as soul to soul, his parables soul to soul as well as his stories as such.  The flesh being inanimate can make no prayers. It is the identification with the flesh that gives us false ego. We can transcend this condition by coming to the truth that all designations are that which we identify. These designations are not the identifier ( soul ) though. Since these false designations are a byproduct or exhibition of a souls ignorance makes ignorance an imposition placed upon a soul. Being something contracted ignorance is not something that is innately apart of the constitution of the soul, if it were becoming pure would be impossible. By becoming ignorant when in contact with the body makes the soul transcendental to the flesh due to it being conditioned by its covering. This is how there is life before birth to me.

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4 years ago  ::  Jul 17, 2010 - 7:35PM #32
natureboy_the0
Posts: 1,741

Jul 17, 2010 -- 2:50PM, williejhonlo wrote:

Jul 17, 2010 -- 9:48AM, natureboy_the0 wrote:

Jul 16, 2010 -- 2:39PM, williejhonlo wrote:


Natureboy, I see you believe in an impersonal absolute since you believe in sharing a likeness. To me though sharing a likeness also means that we share personality as well. If God knows that he is, ( I AM, THAT I AM ) would mean that he knows his own existence this to me denotes personality. You have Jesus praying to God and addressing him as ( abba ) Father and him telling the story of the prodical son thus establishing our relationship with God. This story also implies that life is eternal since we come from Heaven and decide to go back as soon as we realize the futility of material existence, as which is implied by the story. All in all i would say God is an entity ( personality ) as well as something impersonal which is what a lot of Hindus believe.



Willie,


If you understood when I said "life is learning existence by living it" means we will live every fractured part of the existence's personality, each honeycomb cell and then become the lifeforce of the whole of existence you would see, if I accepted god's existence, it would be my own lifeforce.  If you realize when Jesus was on the cross and cried "my god, my god, why have you forsaken me" was his flesh crying to his lifeforce he saw exiting his body, you would realize all his prayers were flesh to lifeforce.  That would cause you to realize if I accepted the concept of god, it would be personal.



I always interpreted his prayers as soul to soul, his parables soul to soul as well as his stories as such.  The flesh being inanimate can make no prayers. It is the identification with the flesh that gives us false ego. We can transcend this condition by coming to the truth that all designations are that which we identify. These designations are not the identifier ( soul ) though. Since these false designations are a byproduct or exhibition of a souls ignorance makes ignorance an imposition placed upon a soul. Being something contracted ignorance is not something that is innately apart of the constitution of the soul, if it were becoming pure would be impossible. By becoming ignorant when in contact with the body makes the soul transcendental to the flesh due to it being conditioned by its covering. This is how their is life before birth to me.


 


Don't you, if you have a house, identify yourself with it, should it burn you say my home burned down.  Your ghost, having lived in the body for so long, will identify with the body therefore, when Jesus said "when you see me you see the father" the "me" was the body and the functioning of the body was the ghost.  That is not false ego, it is the nature of the dual plane, earth. 


The soul is biblically identified as a combination of the body, ghost and mind (Gen. 2:7) and, because earth is the place of duality, the mind is intentionally kept ignorant until it is time to move to the next plane.  


When the time comes to rapture to the next plane the trinity, body, mind and ghost, becomes completely integrated, whole or holy.  At that point the "me" or "I" identifies the integrated trinity.  The honeycomb cells of the next plane requires an integrated trinity, which morphs from one to the other, is why we are metamorphosed [born again] beings to qualify for it.  


The reason there is not life but individual existings is before birth the ghost is eternal and never cease being the individual it is. 

Are you questioning your beliefs, ask I AM THAT I AM to clarify them!
Elijah Alfred "NatureBoy" Alexander, Jr. presenting SEEDS OF LIFE
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4 years ago  ::  Jul 18, 2010 - 11:38PM #33
williejhonlo
Posts: 3,908

Jul 17, 2010 -- 7:35PM, natureboy_the0 wrote:


Jul 17, 2010 -- 2:50PM, williejhonlo wrote:

Jul 17, 2010 -- 9:48AM, natureboy_the0 wrote:

Jul 16, 2010 -- 2:39PM, williejhonlo wrote:


Natureboy, I see you believe in an impersonal absolute since you believe in sharing a likeness. To me though sharing a likeness also means that we share personality as well. If God knows that he is, ( I AM, THAT I AM ) would mean that he knows his own existence this to me denotes personality. You have Jesus praying to God and addressing him as ( abba ) Father and him telling the story of the prodical son thus establishing our relationship with God. This story also implies that life is eternal since we come from Heaven and decide to go back as soon as we realize the futility of material existence, as which is implied by the story. All in all i would say God is an entity ( personality ) as well as something impersonal which is what a lot of Hindus believe.



Willie,


If you understood when I said "life is learning existence by living it" means we will live every fractured part of the existence's personality, each honeycomb cell and then become the lifeforce of the whole of existence you would see, if I accepted god's existence, it would be my own lifeforce.  If you realize when Jesus was on the cross and cried "my god, my god, why have you forsaken me" was his flesh crying to his lifeforce he saw exiting his body, you would realize all his prayers were flesh to lifeforce.  That would cause you to realize if I accepted the concept of god, it would be personal.



I always interpreted his prayers as soul to soul, his parables soul to soul as well as his stories as such.  The flesh being inanimate can make no prayers. It is the identification with the flesh that gives us false ego. We can transcend this condition by coming to the truth that all designations are that which we identify. These designations are not the identifier ( soul ) though. Since these false designations are a byproduct or exhibition of a souls ignorance makes ignorance an imposition placed upon a soul. Being something contracted ignorance is not something that is innately apart of the constitution of the soul, if it were becoming pure would be impossible. By becoming ignorant when in contact with the body makes the soul transcendental to the flesh due to it being conditioned by its covering. This is how their is life before birth to me.


 


Don't you, if you have a house, identify yourself with it, should it burn you say my home burned down.  Your ghost, having lived in the body for so long, will identify with the body therefore, when Jesus said "when you see me you see the father" the "me" was the body and the functioning of the body was the ghost.  That is not false ego, it is the nature of the dual plane, earth. 


The soul is biblically identified as a combination of the body, ghost and mind (Gen. 2:7) and, because earth is the place of duality, the mind is intentionally kept ignorant until it is time to move to the next plane.  


When the time comes to rapture to the next plane the trinity, body, mind and ghost, becomes completely integrated, whole or holy.  At that point the "me" or "I" identifies the integrated trinity.  The honeycomb cells of the next plane requires an integrated trinity, which morphs from one to the other, is why we are metamorphosed [born again] beings to qualify for it.  


The reason there is not life but individual existings before birth is the ghost is eternal, never to be cease to be the individual it is. 



I don't identify my house as myself though, nor my clothes, they are just possessions. Even if one's house burns down you haven't burned down, the house is not you, nor are your clothes you. You have the abilitry to identify with them because you are a self but they don't identify with you for lacking consciousness. That which is identifyig is different from that which is identified. When we say, i am black, white, jew, etc. we are making our identity our body but we can only do this if we are consciousness. Consciousness is not black, white, Jew, Christian, nor muslim it is just awareness or the perceiver. Under the quality of ignorance though we identify ourselves with these designations and this is what causes strife and war. I've always interpreted that Jesus quote as Jesus saying that God is working through Jesus therefore Jesus is an expression of Gods mercy unto us. As Jesus said, " the words i speak do not belong to me, but to the father who sent me. Therefore he who loves me,loves the Father and we will both come to be with him" quotes always leave room for different interpretations.

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4 years ago  ::  Jul 22, 2010 - 10:03AM #34
David
Posts: 287

 


This is a good question and I will take a stab at it..I was raised Catholic..we believe(as Christians do)that God is everlasting..He has no beginning and no end..The Alpha and the Omega...we are made in His Image..but...unlike God...humans have a beginning and an end..as far as human earthly existance..now, we were planted in God's Mind from before time began...nothing is an accident with God...He knew He would make us from time immorial..but..as human beings..we have a beginning, in human form...and an ending..


As Christians, we hope for everlasting life with God in His Kingdom of Heavan...we will see Him as He is...and be perfected as He is..when we die in His Grace..


  

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4 years ago  ::  Jul 22, 2010 - 3:12PM #35
DotNotInOz
Posts: 6,833

Jul 27, 2009 -- 10:23AM, acii wrote:


I'd recommend "Destiny of Souls" by Michael Newton.


He seems to be the leading expert on the subject, doing regression hypnosis. 




Personally, I prefer granting the "leading expert" title to Dr. Jim Tucker who is carrying on the research begun by the late Dr. Ian Stevenson, the latter best known for the classic work, Twenty Cases Suggestive of Reincarnation.


Dr. Tucker is a child psychiatrist affiliated with the University of Virginia who focuses his research upon analyzing the details of very young children's stories of past lives. 


As I recall, he speculates a bit upon the implications of life after death in his book, Life Before Life. However, despite the suggestive title, Tucker details how the research is done, what criteria determine cases deemed worthy of further investigation and the like from a scientist's rather than a spiritual seeker's viewpoint.


Tucker's aim as was Stevenson's is to attempt to amass enough evidence either to prove or disprove that rebirth occurs.


Very interesting reading. 



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4 years ago  ::  Jul 23, 2010 - 11:43AM #36
Dunamus3
Posts: 557

As a university student many years ago, I was taught that an "expert" is someone from out of town.  So, I come as an expert on this topic today, although my words are slim.  It would not take a genius to conclude that life begins before birth, and even before conception.  For those who might question this, my question to you is : Has anything dead ever penetrated anything live as the sperm does with the ovum during the process of conception?  The answer to that question alone proves my point. 

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4 years ago  ::  Jul 24, 2010 - 9:44PM #37
williejhonlo
Posts: 3,908

Jul 22, 2010 -- 10:03AM, David wrote:


 


This is a good question and I will take a stab at it..I was raised Catholic..we believe(as Christians do)that God is everlasting..He has no beginning and no end..The Alpha and the Omega...we are made in His Image..but...unlike God...humans have a beginning and an end..as far as human earthly existance..now, we were planted in God's Mind from before time began...nothing is an accident with God...He knew He would make us from time immorial..but..as human beings..we have a beginning, in human form...and an ending..


As Christians, we hope for everlasting life with God in His Kingdom of Heavan...we will see Him as He is...and be perfected as He is..when we die in His Grace..


  



Yet still, the Bible does not teach that death is the end. I believe the story of the prodical son implies that there is life before birth and life after death.

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4 years ago  ::  Jul 26, 2010 - 11:04AM #38
Grinandbearit
Posts: 2,319

This is the only thing the Bible says about life before birth: Jer 1:5 "Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you. Before you were born, I set you apart for my holy purpose.


God knows us in the womb, but the only one who had pre-existence before being formed in the womb was Jesus: Joh 17:5 So now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world existed.


 


 


 

1Co 1:18  For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
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4 years ago  ::  Jul 27, 2010 - 11:38AM #39
David
Posts: 287

Jul 26, 2010 -- 11:04AM, Grinandbearit wrote:


This is the only thing the Bible says about life before birth: Jer 1:5 "Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you. Before you were born, I set you apart for my holy purpose.


God knows us in the womb, but the only one who had pre-existence before being formed in the womb was Jesus: Joh 17:5 So now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world existed.


 Amen, Grin...Amen...


 


 





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4 years ago  ::  Jul 28, 2010 - 8:30PM #40
Dunamus3
Posts: 557

Pardon me, It was my understanding that the question stemmed around anatomy and physiology, I did not take in account of pre-existence as it pertains to the spirit.  Somehow, my mind went to the argument of when does life begin Anatomically, which is much different from Spirit as God is.  If Christ pre-existed as Spirit, and there was no need for an anatomic birth, the truth of being born of a virgin would have no place.  I am thorougly convinced that Christ was born of a virgin anatomically, but not spiritually. The point I came from was strickly anatomically, and I stand by that conviction although I am convinced that spiritually, we speak of   a different and higher course. Scripture does bear reference that Christ preexisted with God, and so did the  Holy Spirit.   Even in considering the passage as quoted from Jeremiah, and considering that God is not double minded, that Jesus came that we might have life, and that more abundantly, I still ask the question, has anything dead, even in life as we know it, ever made anything alive?  I know of no such happening. My thorough persuasion is, since life begins with live organisms as we know it (Anatomically) life begins before conception, because it is by live organisms that life springs.  Again, peace to all.

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