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Switch to Forum Live View Proof of the afterlife?
6 years ago  ::  Jan 03, 2009 - 4:55PM #1
CrystalClear75
Posts: 1
I've had a few deaths in the family which has led me to contemplate the idea of the afterlife.  I have doubts because there is no evidence especially scientifically that such a place exists.  I feel that life would be so much more meaningful knowing there was a warm and happy spiritual realm that exists after death.  I feel very alienated spiritually and religiously, I would say I'm more spiritual than religious if anything.  But I feel like I don't belong, and I have a pessimistic outlook on the existance of God and the afterlife, which somewhat makes life seem gloomy.  What can I do to believe and feel whole?
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6 years ago  ::  Jan 03, 2009 - 9:21PM #2
mountain_man
Posts: 38,740
[QUOTE=CrystalClear75;994268]I've had a few deaths in the family which has led me to contemplate the idea of the afterlife. I have doubts because there is no evidence especially scientifically that such a place exists.


There are many claims, but no one has brought forth any actual proof. All the science and biology I've studied shows me that there is no possibility of what some call an "afterlife."

I feel that life would be so much more meaningful knowing there was a warm and happy spiritual realm that exists after death.


Wouldn't that make this life meaningless? It would turn this life into just a waiting period for something else to come along later.

I feel very alienated spiritually and religiously, I would say I'm more spiritual than religious if anything.  But I feel like I don't belong, and I have a pessimistic outlook on the existance of God and the afterlife, which somewhat makes life seem gloomy.  What can I do to believe and feel whole?[/QUOTE]
You can stop believing that you need to believe in all that stuff. There is nothing wrong with not believing. Don't believe, or not believe, just because someone else thinks you should. I'm an Atheist and I don't believe any of that stuff, but you should find what make YOU comfortable.

As an Atheist I know this is the ONLY life I will ever get. That makes this life just that much more precious. It makes me want to live and enjoy every minute of it.

Have you been to an Unitarian Universalist church?  From what I've seen, they believe pretty much as you do.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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6 years ago  ::  Jan 03, 2009 - 9:21PM #3
mountain_man
Posts: 38,740
[QUOTE=CrystalClear75;994268]I've had a few deaths in the family which has led me to contemplate the idea of the afterlife. I have doubts because there is no evidence especially scientifically that such a place exists.


There are many claims, but no one has brought forth any actual proof. All the science and biology I've studied shows me that there is no possibility of what some call an "afterlife."

I feel that life would be so much more meaningful knowing there was a warm and happy spiritual realm that exists after death.


Wouldn't that make this life meaningless? It would turn this life into just a waiting period for something else to come along later.

I feel very alienated spiritually and religiously, I would say I'm more spiritual than religious if anything.  But I feel like I don't belong, and I have a pessimistic outlook on the existance of God and the afterlife, which somewhat makes life seem gloomy.  What can I do to believe and feel whole?[/QUOTE]
You can stop believing that you need to believe in all that stuff. There is nothing wrong with not believing. Don't believe, or not believe, just because someone else thinks you should. I'm an Atheist and I don't believe any of that stuff, but you should find what make YOU comfortable.

As an Atheist I know this is the ONLY life I will ever get. That makes this life just that much more precious. It makes me want to live and enjoy every minute of it.

Have you been to an Unitarian Universalist church?  From what I've seen, they believe pretty much as you do.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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6 years ago  ::  Jan 08, 2009 - 1:44AM #4
pilahawaiian
Posts: 452
When you do find out about the afterlife, it not going mean much, because it will be to late to do anything about it.

Only the living can do something about it. The dead are stuck with what they get.

Not all the NDE can say the same thing and be lying. they don't even know each other, and the NDE has been happening before Jesus.

The only reason God sends them back is so you will know about the afterlife. But NO one comes back from the House of God.
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6 years ago  ::  Jan 08, 2009 - 9:31AM #5
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,782
There's never solid "proof" of anything. Which, IMO, is the way God intended it. We are here to learn and grow, which would be impossible if everything were spoon-fed to us as an absolute certainty.  You can't have true faith if there's no room for doubt. You can't have real courage if there's no real danger... and so on and so forth. Thus, this life is the way it is, and as long as we're here, we cant -- and won't -- ever really know about the afterlife.


I would also like to say I disagree with a couple of common notions.

First, that belief in an afterlife somehow makes this life less precious or will somehow keep one from living this one to the fullest. Just as the primary purpose of our previous lives in our mothers' wombs was to prepare us for this life, the primary purpose of this life is to prepare us for the next life -- which is the real, spiritual life. But the rub is, the best way to prepare... to learn and grow.. is to live this life to the fullest. If you spend this life cowering in fear or not reaching your full potential, not chasing your dreams and not loving others will all your heart then you will, of course, fail to reach your full potential for the next life.

Secondly, that the afterlife is some sort of paradise, where you just sit on your arse and bask in Jesus' glory, or whatever. The most compelling near-death experiences I've heard about indicate that there are changes, challenges, growth, work to do and so on in the next life. Spiritual progress, learning and challenge is never ending. There's no reason to think it stops simply because the physical body of this life has died.
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6 years ago  ::  Jan 08, 2009 - 11:32AM #6
mountain_man
Posts: 38,740
[QUOTE=pilahawaiian;1004476]When you do find out about the afterlife, it not going mean much, because it will be to late to do anything about it.


Since there is no "afterlife" I'm not worried.

The only reason God sends them back...[/QUOTE]
Gods do not exist.

Hau'oli Makahiki Hou

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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6 years ago  ::  Jan 08, 2009 - 11:37AM #7
mountain_man
Posts: 38,740
[QUOTE=mytmouse57;1004811]There's never solid "proof" of anything.


There is. I have absolute proof that my cat is not a dog.

Which, IMO, is the way God intended it.


Since gods do not exist, they cannot intend anything.

First, that belief in an afterlife somehow makes this life less precious or will somehow keep one from living this one to the fullest. ..


It does. It takes away from actually living this life by focusing on something that is never going to happen.

Secondly, that the afterlife is some sort of paradise, where you just sit on your arse and bask in Jesus' glory, or whatever.


The christian "afterlife" is worse than that. According to one part of the bible, I forgot which one, you will "kneel before god and sing his praises for all eternity." I'd think that would get quite boring after the first thousand years or so.

... There's no reason to think it stops simply because the physical body of this life has died.[/QUOTE]
There is no reason to believe anything happens.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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6 years ago  ::  Jan 08, 2009 - 12:20PM #8
karbie
Posts: 3,329
While I do believe in an afterlife for a number of reasons, I certainly don't think we get "rewarded" by wearing golden shoes, sitting on clouds and never doing anything ever again. That view of the afterlife was meant to make everyone who was poor or slaves whose life here was truly Hell  think that someday they would be free of all this crap and get the rest and recognition that they were denied here. No revolting here; just swallow it all down and you'll get your own mansion in Heaven. But you have to believe exactly the way  we tell you or you won't get into Heaven.
  That isn't what I believe. When my father died it was the first major loss in my life, but I still literally heard from him for about a month or two afterwards. It was like a bad telephone connection, and even though it scared me  it was also still being in touch...until the day I asked him where he was. Daddy said "Oh, I wish you hadn't asked that!" and another voice came on and said "You know this is forbidden to answer". No more talks.
  Fast forward to the next major loss--my father's father. I was hit by an enveloping wave of love that could only be Grandpa; it was his essence. I got the call telling me he had just died 150 miles away about 10-15 minutes later. He took away my fear of death by letting me know that who we are survives and so does love.
  I lost my maternal Grandma this past June. We were all with her--the core "us girls" from my childhood of Grandma, Mother, my older sister and me. She had a dream a few days before she died that she was at a big party with everyone she had loved who had died before her. Since she was over 100, there were a lot of people there. She realized that the place was so magnificent and the colors brighter than anything she'd ever seen on Earth and she knew that she was in Heaven. She wasn't real thrilled to wake up back here to finish out dying of congestive heart failure. When I discovered she could squeeze a hand in response to a statement it gave all of us a chance to tell her one last time how much we loved her and how important she had been to us our whole lives. No giant Hollywood Last words except from us.
  I was in the hospital for 9 days in October due to a flubbed surgery to take out a non-functional salivary gland. The original out-patient procedure didn't include a drainage tube so the abcess became so huge that I agreed to have it opened up under a local...I'd have done it myself if they had left a sharp implement around. The second night back  on my ward from the ICU we had a 3AM Fire Drill. I was absolutely awake due to that when I realized from the warmth that there was a hand on my shoulder and I had known that hand my whole life. I said Grandma?...and she squeezed my shoulder and left.
  So I do believe in a life after this, but I believe that there will be things to do there and chances to advance your soul more than you can on this part of existence. And while it may be theologically impossible, I would like to still have enough of my temper left to ask them "What were you THINKING?!? about this glorious go-round of life.
  I do agree that we will never know what the Bible should have encompassed before the Council in Nicaea had their little bonfire. I consider myself somewhat of a Christian; I grew up as an Episcopalian but we were being taught that there were as many paths to God as their were religions and people. We were encouraged to check out other churches to compare how we felt. Our family tag line came from Daddy--he was a paratrooper in WWII--one of the lucky ones who were cleaning out the Nazi Resistance after the war was officially over. He had a minister come rushing up to grab him and then yell, "Son, are you SAVED?" Daddy just broke the embrace and told him "No, I'm an Episcopalian." If you've seen, heard, or felt things that don't follow someone else's view of how the Universe is supposed to go, it doesn't meant that either of you are wrong. If I were asking a psychic anything today, it would be what time the next bus comes for me!
"You are letting your opinion be colored by facts again."
'When I want your opinion, I'll give it to you."
these are both from my father.
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6 years ago  ::  Jan 08, 2009 - 2:32PM #9
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,782
[QUOTE=mountain_man;1005112]There is. I have absolute proof that my cat is not a dog.


Since gods do not exist, they cannot intend anything.


It does. It takes away from actually living this life by focusing on something that is never going to happen.


The christian "afterlife" is worse than that. According to one part of the bible, I forgot which one, you will "kneel before god and sing his praises for all eternity." I'd think that would get quite boring after the first thousand years or so.


There is no reason to believe anything happens.[/QUOTE]


I'm glad you convinced yourself of all those things. But as a former atheist myself, such overly-simplistic thinking simply doesn't work for me. There's no sense in being cynical simply for the sake of doing so.
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6 years ago  ::  Jan 08, 2009 - 7:03PM #10
mountain_man
Posts: 38,740
[QUOTE=mytmouse57;1005476]I'm glad you convinced yourself of all those things.


When one has knowledge and facts they don't need "convincing."

But as a former atheist myself,


I never believe anyone when they say that.

such overly-simplistic thinking simply doesn't work for me.


God beliefs are founded on being overly simplistic. When one has such god beliefs, they don't need to think, they just believe. Actually, in a religion; thinking is not allowed. (religion = any positive god belief.)

There's no sense in being cynical simply for the sake of doing so.[/QUOTE]
So, being honest is now called "cynical"? When did that happen?

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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