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Switch to Forum Live View Dr. Ruth Claims Consent Ends Once Couple Is Naked and Aroused
2 years ago  ::  Jun 14, 2015 - 9:51PM #41
in_my_opinion
Posts: 4,107

Jun 14, 2015 -- 8:53PM, mountain_man wrote:


Jun 14, 2015 -- 8:26PM, in_my_opinion wrote:

...So, even to this day, people's thoughts are strongly influenced by their endocrine secretions.


Influenced, not controlled. Just because men and women are influenced by different hormones doesn't mean we have to treat each other with disrespect. That's what's been going on in this thread, and in a large part of society; women are disrespected by unevolved males.




That post was meant in humor.


In reality it is a socio-cultural problem; one of bad beliefs, strong prejudices, lack of proper training and weak education.


As people are growing up they are given to believe that they can't control their feelings, that they therefore are unable to control their actions, and thus can be held blameless for any and every evil that stains their hands.


While it is true that some passions are indeed well nigh ineradicable; actions are far easier to resist perpetrating, especially if they aren't allowed initiation and habituation. Unfortunately a society, that does not train and protect its young well, will perpetuate its ills indefinitely.

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 14, 2015 - 10:58PM #42
mountain_man
Posts: 44,029

Jun 14, 2015 -- 9:51PM, in_my_opinion wrote:

That post was meant in humor.


OK. Humor doesn't come across in this medium too good.


In reality it is a socio-cultural problem; one of bad beliefs, strong prejudices, lack of proper training and weak education.


All that makes it hard to work on. Some of us get it though.


As people are growing up they are given to believe that they can't control their feelings, that they therefore are unable to control their actions, and thus can be held blameless for any and every evil that stains their hands.


That's Rational Behavior Therapy in a nutshell. One can, if they choose to, control their feelings in a way they come up with healthier feelings and different subsequent actions.


While it is true that some passions are indeed well nigh ineradicable; actions are far easier to resist perpetrating, especially if they aren't allowed initiation and habituation. Unfortunately a society, that does not train and protect its young well, will perpetuate its ills indefinitely.


We can only try to raise our kids, and grand kids, with a healthy control over their emotions. Children quickly learn RBT and thrive on it. It's a start, but there's still a long ways to go.


Check out the RBT website. Dr. Ellis was actually a friend of mine.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.   Isaac Asimov
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 15, 2015 - 12:42AM #43
in_my_opinion
Posts: 4,107

Jun 14, 2015 -- 10:58PM, mountain_man wrote:


Jun 14, 2015 -- 9:51PM, in_my_opinion wrote:

That post was meant in humor.


OK. Humor doesn't come across in this medium too good.


In reality it is a socio-cultural problem; one of bad beliefs, strong prejudices, lack of proper training and weak education.


All that makes it hard to work on. Some of us get it though.


As people are growing up they are given to believe that they can't control their feelings, that they therefore are unable to control their actions, and thus can be held blameless for any and every evil that stains their hands.


That's Rational Behavior Therapy in a nutshell. One can, if they choose to, control their feelings in a way they come up with healthier feelings and different subsequent actions.


While it is true that some passions are indeed well nigh ineradicable; actions are far easier to resist perpetrating, especially if they aren't allowed initiation and habituation. Unfortunately a society, that does not train and protect its young well, will perpetuate its ills indefinitely.


We can only try to raise our kids, and grand kids, with a healthy control over their emotions. Children quickly learn RBT and thrive on it. It's a start, but there's still a long ways to go.


Check out the RBT website. Dr. Ellis was actually a friend of mine.




Thanks for the link. Wasn't aware of this particular therapy program.


There are many philosophical, religious, ideological, ethnic, etc bodies that say some of the same things in different ways.


Do like the fact that your friend put a direct focus, and an applied program to it.


Wish it could be generalized to schoolkids and provided as a curriculum for emotional/affective development, starting from early childhood. It would nip many social concerns in the bud.

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 15, 2015 - 1:00AM #44
mountain_man
Posts: 44,029

Jun 15, 2015 -- 12:42AM, in_my_opinion wrote:

Thanks for the link. Wasn't aware of this particular therapy program.


For 10 years I taught it to recovering substance abusers. It works.


There are many philosophical, religious, ideological, ethnic, etc bodies that say some of the same things in different ways.


Even kids schoolyard chants; "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me." It's not letting others control your emotions and actions.


Do like the fact that your friend put a direct focus, and an applied program to it.


he was a very pragmatic man. His REBT, as it was first called, went right to the heart of the matter; your thoughts cause your actions. Those thoughts, some call them "core beliefs" can be controlled (but not perfectly since were imperfect humans) or steered in a healthier direction.


Wish it could be generalized to schoolkids and provided as a curriculum for emotional/affective development, starting from early childhood. It would nip many social concerns in the bud.


That it would!

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.   Isaac Asimov
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 15, 2015 - 3:34AM #45
shmuelgoldstein
Posts: 3,014

Jun 4, 2015 -- 4:30PM, Shusha wrote:

Jun 4, 2015 -- 4:35AM, Hatman wrote:

If a woman does that to ya, guys, leave her and dump her immediately, 'cuz it ain't gonna get no better - and is likely to get a WHOLE lot worse.



Am I reading that right?  If a woman decides at some stage in the festivities that she wants to stop you should dump her?



No, not at "some stage", but at the stage described, Yes. Dump her. 


Jun 4, 2015 -- 4:30PM, Shusha wrote:

 Just automatically,



Uh, no, it's not "automatically", it's where at the very last second she says "umm, naw, nevermind".


Jun 4, 2015 -- 4:30PM, Shusha wrote:

 Because a woman who doesn't "put out" is not a worthwhile date, or girlfriend or spouse?



Actually, a woman who is not interested in sex with you is NOT a worthwhile girlfriend or spouse. She is a friend. And she can be a very good friend. But without the sex, she is not qualified to be a "spouse", nor a "girlfriend". Sex is part of that kind of relationship.


But she could be OK as a date. Sex is not a requirement for a date.  


Jun 4, 2015 -- 4:30PM, Shusha wrote:

 Because a woman who is interested in you and flirting with you, but isn't quite ready to have sex with you, or who has conflicted feelings about sex just at that moment is a "tease"?  



We are not talking about that here. The situation had gotten way beyond that. 


But to be clear, if she says "no", then it's "no", and the fellow should stop.


We are just saying that if she says "no", he should say "no" as well. 


It's a two-way street. 

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 15, 2015 - 3:24PM #46
Shusha
Posts: 6,097

Jun 14, 2015 -- 8:08PM, mountain_man wrote:


And they are not the words, or thoughts, of most men.




True.  And thank you for demonstrating this.  

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 15, 2015 - 3:37PM #47
Shusha
Posts: 6,097

Jun 15, 2015 -- 3:34AM, shmuelgoldstein wrote:


We are just saying that if she says "no", he should say "no" as well. 


It's a two-way street. 




My problem with this is in the implication (and I'm talking here about all the posts, not just yours specifically, shmuel) that if a woman says no at this point in the festivities that it is a permanent, uncurable, undesirable character flaw -- rather than a complex interplay of emotional, physical and sexual intimacy with another human being which might be resolved with a bit of communication and mutal respect.  


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2 years ago  ::  Jun 22, 2015 - 1:45PM #48
Merope
Posts: 14,591

This thread was moved from the Hot Topics Zone.

Merope | Beliefnet Community Manager
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