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Switch to Forum Live View Does anyone actually believe in hell?
3 years ago  ::  Feb 27, 2012 - 9:51PM #1
McAtheist
Posts: 8,077
Various sects of Christianity believe in a literal hell where you will be punished for all eternity --- or at least a really long time --- for sinning.  The list of sins usually include: idolatry, blasphemy, false prophecy, witchcraft, murder, homosexuality, bestiality, adultery, etc.  I think most YEC groups fall into this category of Christianity.

If you actually believed you would go to hell for these actions, could you EVER actually commit them?  People don't step off of 30 story building because they know --- without any doubt or hesitation --- that they will die.  But when someone like Ted Haggard jumps into bed with a guy, supposedly "knowing" that it will condemn him to hell, isn't it obvious that they don't actually believe it will ever happen?  Even the most ardent anti-gay evangelical conservative Christians don't actually believe in hell, not in the way they believe in gravity.

Isn't this the same sort of double-think that infects all of YECism? Is if fair to call it the same sort of self-delusion or self-deception that infects all of YECism?

What do you think?
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3 years ago  ::  Feb 27, 2012 - 10:08PM #2
amcolph
Posts: 17,381

Feb 27, 2012 -- 9:51PM, McAtheist wrote:

Various sects of Christianity believe in a literal hell where you will be punished for all eternity --- or at least a really long time --- for sinning.  The list of sins usually include: idolatry, blasphemy, false prophecy, witchcraft, murder, homosexuality, bestiality, adultery, etc.  I think most YEC groups fall into this category of Christianity.

If you actually believed you would go to hell for these actions, could you EVER actually commit them?  People don't step off of 30 story building because they know --- without any doubt or hesitation --- that they will die.  But when someone like Ted Haggard jumps into bed with a guy, supposedly "knowing" that it will condemn him to hell, isn't it obvious that they don't actually believe it will ever happen?  Even the most ardent anti-gay evangelical conservative Christians don't actually believe in hell, not in the way they believe in gravity.

Isn't this the same sort of double-think that infects all of YECism? Is if fair to call it the same sort of self-delusion or self-deception that infects all of YECism?

What do you think?



No, they believe the Bible and think that will save them.  Hell is for all those others who don't believe the bible.

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3 years ago  ::  Feb 27, 2012 - 10:32PM #3
Blü
Posts: 24,865

I think knowing that you shouldn't fall from high places can easily be a different kind of 'knowledge' to the promises and threats of faith - a common kind of doublethink.


For many Abrahamic believers, believing requires all kinds of mental adjustments so that the storyline is preserved at the cost of reality.  They don't admit that gods answer prayers at the same rate that coincidence answers wishes, that the bible says just about anything you want it to say, that sending unbelievers and members of other religions to Hell for eternity for not being of their faith, or of their sect, is as outrageous as it is stupid, and so on down to obsessions like a bureaucrat-moron god who keeps a record of the personnel, aperture and manner of each copulation and awards you gold or black stars for it.


So when Haggard met up with his rented friend, that was reality.  He then had to return to his storyline world where the rules are different.  His inability to distinguish between the two led him into hypocrisy, public ridicule and a crisis of cognitive dissonance, whereas if he'd been able to be straightforward about it, neither he nor the public nor any worthwhile deity looking on would have had a problem with what he did.  He was another victim of proscriptive religion.

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3 years ago  ::  Feb 28, 2012 - 6:30PM #4
Sparky_Spotty
Posts: 761

I have an aquaintance who's father belonged to the catholic church and who was adept at finding 'loopholes' that allowed him to engage in various behaviors that were definitely at odds with his catholicism. Apparently he felt he could pull a fast one on God.


I guess he believed in hell, but at the same time thought he could outsmart the rules to avoid it.

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3 years ago  ::  Feb 28, 2012 - 11:07PM #5
Jcarlinbn
Posts: 7,037

Inappropriate for Origins.  Homosexuality topic in OP and response suggests this is the right board.  

Jcarlinbn, community moderator
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3 years ago  ::  Feb 29, 2012 - 2:08PM #6
mainecaptain
Posts: 21,783

Feb 27, 2012 -- 10:08PM, amcolph wrote:



No, they believe the Bible and think that will save them.  Hell is for all those others who don't believe the bible.




So you can do anything you want and not go to hell as long as you believe right? Not trying to be snarky, just thinking in type.

A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. Aristotle
Never discourage anyone...who continually makes progress, no matter how slow. Plato..
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives" Jackie Robinson
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2 years ago  ::  Mar 04, 2012 - 2:41AM #7
iamachildofhis
Posts: 10,599

Feb 29, 2012 -- 2:08PM, mainecaptain wrote:



amcolph: No, they believe the Bible and think that will save them.  Hell is for all those others who don't believe the bible.
mainecaptain: So you can do anything you want and not go to hell as long as you believe right? Not trying to be snarky, just thinking in type.



iama:  Hell / Gehenna is for all those who reject Christ Jesus as their Savior.


Rom 6:1     
"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?"

Rom 6:15-16     
"What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?"


.

The wonder of Christmas is that the God Who dwelt among us, now, can dwell within us. - Roy Lessin
.
"Father, forgive them for they know not what they do."
.
Justice is receiving what you deserve.
Mercy is NOT receiving what you deserve.
Grace is receiving what you DO NOT deserve.
.
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2 years ago  ::  Mar 04, 2012 - 10:43AM #8
Do_unto_others
Posts: 8,649

Hell is separation from God.


Hence, one can experience it here on earth while still alive.


It has nothing to do with homosexuality, however, and I find it odd that this topic ended up in the "homosexuality" threads, despite your Haggard example. You could have just as easily pointed out the example of 'Reverend' Jimmy Swaggart jumping into bed with prostitutes (on TWO separate occasions), so it certainly doesn't pertain just to beliefs about homosexuality.

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2 years ago  ::  Mar 05, 2012 - 12:08AM #9
mainecaptain
Posts: 21,783

This is not the right place for this, you are right Do_unto

A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. Aristotle
Never discourage anyone...who continually makes progress, no matter how slow. Plato..
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives" Jackie Robinson
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2 years ago  ::  Mar 05, 2012 - 7:07AM #10
Sacrificialgoddess
Posts: 9,496

*shrugs* It seems that those who are most hateful are the ones who think homosexual thoughts are more hellworthy than lying, cheating, stealing and killing combined.


That's probably why this ended up here, though it seems to me it should be on the Discuss Christianity board.

Dark Energy. It can be found in the observable Universe. Found in ratios of 75% more than any other substance. Dark Energy. It can be found in religious extremists, in cheerleaders. To come to the conclusion that Dark signifies mean and malevolent would define 75% of the Universe as an evil force. Alternatively, to think that some cheerleaders don't have razors in their snatch is to be foolishly unarmed.

-- Tori Amos
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