Feb 24, 2012 -- 11:31AM, Girlchristian wrote:

DOMA is unconstitutional and it never should have been signed into law by Clinton no matter what his reasoning was. IMO, it's one of the biggest failures of Clinton's presidency that he didn't stand his ground, do what's right, and refuse to sign it into law.

Morally, this is right.

But things have changed immensely in 15 years.  In 1996 when DOMA was passed, there was a poll showing that 68% of the American public opposed same-sex marriage.  Now, 53% support it.  I don't care how moral your position is, it is not reasonable to expect any politician to support something opposed by 68% of his constituents.

Remember, DADT, when it was put into effect around the same time, was seen as a step forward for gays.  Now it is in the dustbin as obsolete.  I'm sure gays do not see this evolution as fast at all; but, by political and cultural standards, it is. 

This is why I am optimisitic for the future. Given the increasing acceptance of gays by the young, there is every reason to expect this trend to continue.  Fifteen years hence, we will look back on the current mess surrounding referendums and court cases and shake our heads. 

Feb 24, 2012 -- 2:22PM, TemplarS wrote:

Feb 24, 2012 -- 11:31AM, Girlchristian wrote:

DOMA is unconstitutional and it never should have been signed into law by Clinton no matter what his reasoning was. IMO, it's one of the biggest failures of Clinton's presidency that he didn't stand his ground, do what's right, and refuse to sign it into law.

Morally, this is right.

But things have changed immensely in 15 years.  In 1996 when DOMA was passed, there was a poll showing that 68% of the American public opposed same-sex marriage.  Now, 53% support it.  I don't care how moral your position is, it is not reasonable to expect any politician to support something opposed by 68% of his constituents.

I guess I look at it differently and would no matter what party the president was at the time. If 68% of the public supported making slavery legal again, we wouldn't excuse a politician that signed it into law as 'just doing what his constituents wanted.' To look at it another way, the extreme religious right politicians are just doing what their constituents want when they oppose same-sex marriage and abortion and yet we condemn them for doing so.

Remember, DADT, when it was put into effect around the same time, was seen as a step forward for gays.  Now it is in the dustbin as obsolete.  I'm sure gays do not see this evolution as fast at all; but, by political and cultural standards, it is. 

This is why I am optimisitic for the future. Given the increasing acceptance of gays by the young, there is every reason to expect this trend to continue.  Fifteen years hence, we will look back on the current mess surrounding referendums and court cases and shake our heads. 

Completely agree.

Feb 23, 2012 -- 1:14AM, mytmouse57 wrote:

All of these gay marriage ban attempts will eventually be ruled unconstitutional.

Re: "eventually"

Justice delayed is justice denied.

Feb 26, 2012 -- 2:11PM, Ken wrote:

Feb 26, 2012 -- 2:07PM, Do_unto_others wrote:

Re: "eventually"

Justice delayed is justice denied.

Exactly. Think of all the people for whom it will come too late.

That's pretty much a nonsense term made up by those wanting the death penalty to be carried out the day ofter kangaroo trial. It is already too late for the billions of homosexuals that have been around since humans evolved.

Feb 27, 2012 -- 11:03AM, Do_unto_others wrote:

mm, I've never heard the term applied to speedy executions, ever.

I've heard it quite often from death penalty supporters. They are upset that "justice" takes so long.

I'm speaking of justice, and I do not believe the death penalty delivers justice - ever.

Death penalty supporters invented that phrase. Justice takes time. If done quickly it never ends up being justice. The truth gets set aside in order to make things go faster.

But yes, it is already too late for those who have gone before us, many at the hands of homophobes.

And it is going to take more time. A society cannot change over night. Yes, it is taking too long and it's going to take longer still since there is still some fight left in the homophobes. I'm not saying to give up on the fight, but to be pragmatic about it; it's going to take some time.