(I hope the DWTS experience wasn't too painful for you overall. Some like it an some don't. It's a matter of personal taste and preference but I am glad you saw Chaz's "outreach."
(I watch it because my wife does; but yes, I enjoyed Chaz, and I do actually enjoy some of the others. But then again, they always have to go and throw a Kardashian or two in, half of the so-called celebrities I've never heard of- who is this Carson, Elisabetta whoever, Kristin Cavalleri?- Nancy Grace is a jack__s; and then, as if the dancing show isn't enough you have to sit through another agonizing hour of the "results show" and listen to Justin Beaber or whoever).
templar--I agree that Chaz is not a very good dancer but after all is said and done I think that jst makes him more "human" for those whose "idea" of transgendered individuals going into the Chaz/Dancing situation is that "Those people" are not quite human or not human in the same way as "us normal people are."
To me his vulnerablity--and his willingness to expose his vulnerablility is what makes his actions so "heroic."
(I hope the DWTS experience wasn't too painful for you overall. Some like it an some don't. It's a matter of personal taste and preference but I am glad you saw Chaz's "outreach."
I watched some of DWTS (under a bit of duress). You know, Chaz Bono is not really a very good dancer, which made it doubly hard for him. And I am sure, at the start, a lot of people were looking at him as oh, yeah, just another celebrity flake. There's a danger, that when you put yourself out there in that sort of situation, it can all go very badly wrong, and you end up damaging yourself. But you know, he was exactly what he needed to be: himself. And at the end, I think he won a lot of friends, not as any kind of symbol for anything, but simply by being a guy displaying great character in the face of adversity. Wonderful!
I know there was a lot of "controversy" stirred up about Chaz Bono on the dance reality show. I had heard him say in several interwviews before he decided to do that show how shy he was all his life.
What touched me was how he decided to do something so high profile in otrder to let pople see that he is just another human being--IE--to see the human face of this issue.
I can't imagine being that strong myself but I can imagine how many people have had their ideas changed and how many people who have suffered from being in the wrong body have been inspired by his courage in putting aside his own "comfort" in order to help more people on the path of accepting diversity and acceptance for all.
I just really hope that no trangendered child EVER turns to Yvanna, Reteach, Dot or MainCaptain for advocacy, because that will be the A-#1 WORST mistake such a child or the parent of that child could ever make.
To engage someone who arrogantly tells parents to shut-up and let thier daughter shower with the girl with a penis and testicles sounds like a horrendous way to create a positive childhood or any kind of acceptance. Then to have the sanctimonious idiocy to prattle on about how it is the same as black girls and white girls showering together and those parents are big fat bigots for being concerned at all.
Yeah that will really advance that poor transgendered child - NOT.
Then, where are the brains here? Would anyone with an IQ above 2.5 points ever just throw a boy with a vagina into a boy's locker-room and tell the rest of the world to deal? Would you really do that to a transgendered boy?
Do you care about children AT ALL? Because I don't think you do.
Is it so F*(king hard and beyond your thought processes to even temporarily empathize with the transgendered child and what might make EVERYONE most comfortable might be the very solution that would make the transgendered child ALSO most comfortable?
Are you done making up nonsense and dramatic lies?
Maybe you'd like to blame us for the recession and hurrican Katrina? Maybe say how much we hate puppies, kittens and sunshine?
You are the one with the dramatic lies. You started this nonsense with this stupid idea that anyone who is not immediately on-board and comfortable with sending a transgendered child into a locker-room situation is just a nasty bigot and the world has to just shut up and learn to deal with whatever deeply imbeded instincts they have against it. OR, OR - they are bigots just like those mean people that would not let white and black girls shower together.
And now since I call you out on your arrogance you are making up more stuff???? Whatever
If you care about transgendered children, you will care about putting them in situations that people can be most comfortable with them - that probably would include some manuvering in locker rooms. You would not want to use an innocent child- especialy one who is dealing with something difficult like transgender issues and use them for your self-important social engineering projects.
1. I did not start any "nonsense". I did not state what you accuse me of staying. Nowhere did I say
"anyone who is not immediately on-board and comfortable with sending a transgendered child into a locker-room situation is just a nasty bigot and the world has to just shut up and learn to deal with whatever deeply imbeded instincts they have against it"
I corrected you at least once. You've chosen to ignore me and persist in misrepresenting my words. This is either through error or deliberate. I suspect it's through an error and that you're being emotional and hostile towards an idea you created and perceived I was proposing.
You've been corrected again. Please, try to be reasonable and move on.
2. Calling me arrogant is your own opinion based on your own incorrect perception. You are calling me arrogant for an idea you made, that I do not support, that you oppose.
I am not arrogant. I believe the appropriate word is "bewildered".
3. I do care about children, transgender or otherwise. As you've been recently learning about the topic, you may safely assume I have more personal knowledge and involvement with the community than you do. I am happy to know and be close friends with many in the community.
As I told you, the locker room situation is an ideal. It is not an immediate proposal. The latter is your own misconception that you've been attacking me for. I don't have self-important social engineering issues. You have created them in your own mind for me to have and chosen to set yourself against your own construct.
Do you just want to fight or what?
The dwarves of yore made mighty spells, While hammers fell like ringing bells In places deep, where dark things sleep, In hollow halls beneath the fells.
For ancient king and elvish lord There many a gloaming golden hoard They shaped and wrought, and light they caught To hide in gems on hilt of sword. - J.R.R. Tolkien
People should only do what they feel comfortable doing.
Let's give drug or alcohol addicts all the drugs or booze they need to feel good.
Let's ship all LGBT people to an island so they can feel comfortable living however they wish, and all the straights can feel comfy not having to look at or deal with people "like that." Then, everybody can be comfortable.
After all, if people shouldn't have to change because doing so would be "intolerably uncomfortable," then we should never try to get anyone to change their attitude or behavior for their own betterment and that of others.
However, we know that change requires feeling uncomfortable, sometimes very uncomfortable, so that we can bring about what is right.
A tad simplistic.
This is a crusade for some here--fine. I see it as one of many problems needing solution. It's just a blip on my radar and that's okay, too. This board has become increasigly involved wth sexual orientation.
Many years ago when my husband and I were planning a 10-day trip to San Francisco some "friends" warned me about the "gay" community there. Wondered if they had eaten in Buckhead here or shopped high-end retail.
Reminds me I need to send my check to the Atlanta Mission for Thanksgiving dinners--something I can do--feed the hungry. I'll also be donating to the food bank drive at my local Publix.
Many of us do what we can about needs we see.
This conversation has nothing to do with sexual orientation or the gay community. Why bring it up?
The dwarves of yore made mighty spells, While hammers fell like ringing bells In places deep, where dark things sleep, In hollow halls beneath the fells.
For ancient king and elvish lord There many a gloaming golden hoard They shaped and wrought, and light they caught To hide in gems on hilt of sword. - J.R.R. Tolkien
But the reality is, how many parents really understand the issue and are educated enough to respond in this way? I could make the same statement about school boards and administrators who aren't exactly the most progressive people around in a lot of places.
This is why I think what Chaz Bono did is so important. You have to personalize the issue to get through to people. Famous or not, he didn't have to put his life out there like he did.
All true. +1
The dwarves of yore made mighty spells, While hammers fell like ringing bells In places deep, where dark things sleep, In hollow halls beneath the fells.
For ancient king and elvish lord There many a gloaming golden hoard They shaped and wrought, and light they caught To hide in gems on hilt of sword. - J.R.R. Tolkien
How does your above psot felate to how our society treats transgendered individuals?
I am not sure what you are talking about Wgal, but you accused me of being a liar. I am calling you on that! Instead of weakly weasling out of that you should grow up and provide some proof.
EREY--yes of course we mustn't make the Bigots "uncomfortable."
BTW--what's this sudden "social engineering" schtick?
You've accused just about everyone on this thread of it--today--when the ONLY poster saying it is YOU.
BTW2--you might want to brush up on the purpose and use of conjunctions like "and" in English before you try yet another strawman.
It's getting ludicrous--the number of lies you ty to tell about posts that are right here for everyone to read.
And you could brush up on good English discourse.You would not have done well in any English course I taught--no feel for language and absolutely no creativity.
Tell ya a story about a a parargrph written by one of my fave 7th graders. I gave a choice of topics, some creative and some not. Gavin chose a non-creative topic and this is approximately what he wrote on The Differences Between Plant and Animal Cells (about 50 yrs. ago):
Plant cells have chlorophyll. Animal cells do not. If animal cells had chlorophyll we would all look like the Jolly Green Giant. (One sentence short and full credit. Of course, Gavin was very gifted.)
You never have fun with your native language. You never seem to have any fun : that is dangerous for your life. Laughter is great medicine.
And this relates to the topic of how our society treats transgendered individuals in what way?
