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Switch to Forum Live View Canadian Evangelical Lutherans Vote in Favour of SSM/Ordination of Gays
3 years ago  ::  Jul 24, 2011 - 5:51PM #1
Mostyn32
Posts: 2,941
The Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada (ELCIC) National Convention held July 14-17 voted to allow same-sex ‘marriages’.  The vote to permit conducting and blessing homosexual ‘marriages’ passed by a vote of 192 to 132. There are some provisos. Each ELCIC congregation, pastor and Bishop has to vote at the local level to enact the national decision.

The motion to permit practicing homosexuals to be ordained as clergy passed 205 to 114.

ELCIC is the Canadian equivalent of the ELCA in the US.
"God is no captious sophister, eager to trip us up whenever we say amiss, but a courteous tutor, ready to amend what, in our weakness or our ignorance, we say ill, and to make the most of what we say aright."  from 'A Learned Discourse on Justification', a sermon by Richard Hooker (1554-1600).
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3 years ago  ::  Jul 24, 2011 - 7:13PM #2
REteach
Posts: 14,450

Little rumbles preceding the avalanche. :)

I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize what you heard was not what I meant...
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3 years ago  ::  Jul 25, 2011 - 12:21PM #3
Do_unto_others
Posts: 8,655

I am curious why the need for quote marks on the word marriage?

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3 years ago  ::  Jul 25, 2011 - 6:05PM #4
Mostyn32
Posts: 2,941

Me, too, DUO. That's how it appeared in the press release. Still, they've made the move and that's a good thing. There are now three denominations in Canada that will perform same sex marriages - the Metropolitan Church, the United Church of Canada, and now the Ebatgelical Lutheran Church in Canada.


Please pray that the Anglican Church of Canada will resolve this issue in 2013.

"God is no captious sophister, eager to trip us up whenever we say amiss, but a courteous tutor, ready to amend what, in our weakness or our ignorance, we say ill, and to make the most of what we say aright."  from 'A Learned Discourse on Justification', a sermon by Richard Hooker (1554-1600).
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3 years ago  ::  Jul 25, 2011 - 10:54PM #5
Do_unto_others
Posts: 8,655

Jul 25, 2011 -- 6:05PM, Mostyn32 wrote:


Me, too, DUO. That's how it appeared in the press release. Still, they've made the move and that's a good thing. There are now three denominations in Canada that will perform same sex marriages - the Metropolitan Church, the United Church of Canada, and now the Ebatgelical Lutheran Church in Canada.


Please pray that the Anglican Church of Canada will resolve this issue in 2013.





Most, your post is already out of date. Or, you forgot the Quakers. And, of course, both the Reformed and the (ahem, cough, cough) the Conservative branches of Judaism. The Anglicans are pretty much there anyway, but I too pray they will make it official.

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3 years ago  ::  Jul 26, 2011 - 7:42AM #6
REteach
Posts: 14,450

We can think positive and assume it was emphasizing that it was marriage, and not civil union.

I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize what you heard was not what I meant...
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3 years ago  ::  Jul 26, 2011 - 2:34PM #7
Do_unto_others
Posts: 8,655

Even MY above list is incomplete - I forgot to list the Universalist-Unitarians.

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3 years ago  ::  Jul 26, 2011 - 6:12PM #8
Mostyn32
Posts: 2,941

I'm a licensed marriage commissioner in the Province of Manitoba. Between June 2003 and June 2005, eight of the provinces (Ontario, B.C. Quebec, Manitoba, Nova Scotia, Saskatchewan, Newfoundland and Labrador, and New Brunswick) and one of the territories (Yukon) all passed legislation allowing same sex marriages before the federal government made it nationwide in July, 2005. Marriage Commissioners, as agents of the provincial governments which licence them are required to perform wedding ceremonies for all couples - heterosexual or same sex (those who refuse to do so, lose their licences). There is no conscience clause. Under the federal legislation, churches do not have to marry same sex couples unless their denominations vote in favour - as the Evangelical Letheran Church in Canada has just done.


The consequence? Fewer and fewer church weddings, and an exponential increase in the number of secular weddings conducted by Marriage Commissioners, JPs and Judges. I know that I conduct more weddings in one year than my priest friends do in five!


As an Anglican, I believe that the church should get the heck out of the wedding business. With the divorce rate the way it is, I'm not sure how any priest/minister/pastor can, in all honesty, insist that a wedding ceremony is a sacrament (in the liturgical churches) or a holy rite (in the non-liturgical churches).


I would like to see the Anglican Church of Canada replace wedding ceremonies with blessing ceremonies, in which a couple comes to the church to have their secular marriage blessed by their priest/minister/oastor. That's how it's done in Europe and it makes much more sense to me.  

"God is no captious sophister, eager to trip us up whenever we say amiss, but a courteous tutor, ready to amend what, in our weakness or our ignorance, we say ill, and to make the most of what we say aright."  from 'A Learned Discourse on Justification', a sermon by Richard Hooker (1554-1600).
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3 years ago  ::  Jul 27, 2011 - 11:16AM #9
Do_unto_others
Posts: 8,655

I agree, Mostyn. Even though I and my husband were married in our Church, we both would gladly have gone the 'City Hall' route and then subsequently would have gone to our Church to receive a blessing on our marriage.


All those who say 'the government should get out of the marriage business' are, imo, misguided, for it is the government that, er, 'governs' all of the benefits/rights/privileges/obligations/perqs that flow from marriage. The Church does NOT. In fact, the Church cannot perform a legally recognized divorce. Why on earth should they be able to perform only one legal ceremony?

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3 years ago  ::  Jul 29, 2011 - 5:15AM #10
Free_2_b_me
Posts: 137

Jul 24, 2011 -- 5:51PM, Mostyn32 wrote:

The Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada (ELCIC) National Convention held July 14-17 voted to allow same-sex ‘marriages’.  The vote to permit conducting and blessing homosexual ‘marriages’ passed by a vote of 192 to 132. There are some provisos. Each ELCIC congregation, pastor and Bishop has to vote at the local level to enact the national decision.

The motion to permit practicing homosexuals to be ordained as clergy passed 205 to 114.

ELCIC is the Canadian equivalent of the ELCA in the US.


Mostyn,


That's really terrific news! Thanks for sharing it. I hope RETeach is right and they were emphasizing it was marriage and not CU or DP.

Most people do not see the world as it is. They see it as they are.

Anna Leonowens
Anna and the King
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