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4 years ago  ::  Sep 20, 2010 - 9:24PM #1
Weepingangelofthetrees
Posts: 2,053

Update:


Senate poised for close vote on repealing 'don't ask, don't tell' law (Tomorrow/Tuesday Sept. 21)


Call, Email, your Representatives.



"Remember, Jesus would rather constantly shame gays than let orphans have a family."
Stephen Colbert
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4 years ago  ::  Sep 20, 2010 - 10:01PM #2
mountain_man
Posts: 40,280

Repealing DADT will solve nothing unless there is a law enacted that prevents any and all discrimination against gays in the military. Without that law; things will just go back to the way they were before DADT.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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4 years ago  ::  Sep 20, 2010 - 10:28PM #3
Guessses
Posts: 2,233

Sep 20, 2010 -- 10:01PM, mountain_man wrote:


Repealing DADT will solve nothing unless there is a law enacted that prevents any and all discrimination against gays in the military. Without that law; things will just go back to the way they were before DADT.




Hi MM,


That's exactly what I've been trying tell people. They point to the stats and then I point out the stats are merely due to Service Members not knowing the regulations to defend themselves. In a "perfect world", one would not need to defend themselves from bigotry but we are way, far away from that.


I even point out, that before DADT things were much worse. The Military could invade your off-base housing just for "general purposes" and fire you. I was there in 1980 and I just got out. It was indeed, contrary to popular belief, "protection".  No one cares that I have first hand experience and been in most of life. I'm exasperated. A repeal without safe guards means the "with hunts" resume as if we were back in the late 70's early 80's.


Signed, frustrated, Honorably-Medically "retired" SGT. 

Infinite Blessings
Mike/NAFOD
"Lord, please, protect me from Your followers!"
"WWBD? Buddha- Does it matter? If you are enlightened it does not. If you are not enlightened it still doesn't matter."
"If you go looking to place blame, eventually you'll wind up blaming the Gods"
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4 years ago  ::  Sep 20, 2010 - 10:42PM #4
Weepingangelofthetrees
Posts: 2,053

So a repeal would just revert the hunts into practice again? Wouldn't that mean a law prohibiting any and all gay discrimination, deserves to be addressed to the Legislature and in those calls and emails that purport to support the repeal of DADT?


"Remember, Jesus would rather constantly shame gays than let orphans have a family."
Stephen Colbert
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4 years ago  ::  Sep 20, 2010 - 10:49PM #5
Guessses
Posts: 2,233

Sep 20, 2010 -- 10:42PM, Weepingangelofthetrees wrote:


So a repeal would just revert the hunts into practice again? Wouldn't that mean a law prohibiting any and all gay discrimination, deserves to be addressed to the Legislature and in those calls and emails that purport to support the repeal of DADT?




Yes, but as usual, they are putting the cart in front of the horse. While I feel bad for those in the wake, I must say I'm glad my time is over. There were indeed (light) inquiries into my relationship status but no one, not even the medics could press the issue. 

Infinite Blessings
Mike/NAFOD
"Lord, please, protect me from Your followers!"
"WWBD? Buddha- Does it matter? If you are enlightened it does not. If you are not enlightened it still doesn't matter."
"If you go looking to place blame, eventually you'll wind up blaming the Gods"
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4 years ago  ::  Sep 20, 2010 - 11:28PM #6
Weepingangelofthetrees
Posts: 2,053

Sep 20, 2010 -- 10:49PM, Guessses wrote:


Sep 20, 2010 -- 10:42PM, Weepingangelofthetrees wrote:


So a repeal would just revert the hunts into practice again? Wouldn't that mean a law prohibiting any and all gay discrimination, deserves to be addressed to the Legislature and in those calls and emails that purport to support the repeal of DADT?




Yes, but as usual, they are putting the cart in front of the horse... 



As usual being the SOP, sadly enough for our Legislature. Perhaps it's the double play. Repeal DADT, so as to bolster the Democrats popularity slump, especially in wake of the surprising Tea's take in the Primary, and then revert to the old standard. i.e. the former practice of gay "hunting" in the ranks.


It's Politics. I trust a viper, before I trust the system. Because a Viper doesn't pretend to be something it's not, when it's venom changes your life forever.


"Remember, Jesus would rather constantly shame gays than let orphans have a family."
Stephen Colbert
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4 years ago  ::  Sep 21, 2010 - 12:10AM #7
mountain_man
Posts: 40,280

Sep 20, 2010 -- 10:28PM, Guessses wrote:

Hi MM,


That's exactly what I've been trying tell people. They point to the stats and then I point out the stats are merely due to Service Members not knowing the regulations to defend themselves. In a "perfect world", one would bot need to defend themselves from bigotry but we are way, far away from that.



As far as I can see repealing DADT will only leave our gay service members with NO protections what so ever and they'll be kicked out. I could be wrong but I've not seen any protections to be put in place if/when DADT is gone. Maybe someone that knows what's in the bill could point out what seems to be missing?


I even point out, that before DADT things were much worse. The Military could invade your off-base housing just for "general purposes" and fire you. I was there in 1980 and I just got out. It was indeed, contrary to popular belief, "protection".  No one cares that I have first hand experience and been in most of life. I'm exasperated. A repeal without safe guards means the "with hunts" resume as if we were back in the late 70's early 80's.



Exactly! This is not a good thing.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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4 years ago  ::  Sep 21, 2010 - 11:35AM #8
teilhard
Posts: 51,888

The BROADER Question here is the increasing dis-connect between General Society and The Military Culture ...


With no "Draft" in place, there is an ever-more insular quality to The Military, with greater aspect of Us - Them ( not necessarily "Us" VERSUS "Them," but with a disquieting alienation ... ) ...

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4 years ago  ::  Sep 21, 2010 - 11:50AM #9
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 16,603

Weeping


From you other posts I would have thought you would be a big supporter of DADT.


In any event, with luck the Senate will vote to allow the President in consultation with the DOD to review and amend the policy. (That is what the Defense Authorization Bill would actually do, it does not in and of itself repeal anything)

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4 years ago  ::  Sep 21, 2010 - 11:58AM #10
Weepingangelofthetrees
Posts: 2,053

Sep 21, 2010 -- 11:50AM, rocketjsquirell wrote:


Weeping


From you other posts I would have thought you would be a big supporter of DADT.


 




Don't buy into the hatemongers painting me as their style of bigot. I've been a gay rights, and pagan rights activist for years. As well as an activist on other matters of political interest. 


DADT was an abomination when it was inked as a Bill, and it was an insult to the brave women and men in uniform, who's sexual identity has nothing whatsoever to do with their fulfilling their commitment to serve, when Clinton signed it into law.


It's a long time coming, but if it happens today at least it happens. Now, as mentioned in this thread already, what needs to be done is active pursuit of a law that makes gay discrimination and harassment in the ranks, illegal. (In a perfect world, those who commit and are found guilty of such offense would be dishonorably discharged and lose their pension. But I'm a dreamer, because contrary to the haters on this board, I am not a bigot. I despise bigotry and bigots. And I love justice!)


"Remember, Jesus would rather constantly shame gays than let orphans have a family."
Stephen Colbert
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