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Switch to Forum Live View DADT Ruled Unconstitutional
4 years ago  ::  Sep 11, 2010 - 10:58PM #51
drawout
Posts: 5,910

Sep 11, 2010 -- 10:26PM, Sirronrex wrote:


Sep 11, 2010 -- 10:19PM, drawout wrote:


You try to say the divisiveness is a flaw in my thinking or character, when I prove it exists in reality you change the subject by pretending to not see the relevance to the topic. DADT was a transition period to help Straight atheists and Christians in the military prepare for the future. As you admitted yourself that Christians seem to be able to adapt so maybe soldiers can too. We need transition periods.  I have seen allot of changes down here in the south over the last 28 years. Ya cant beat your wife or rape her or drive drunk anymore or even beat your kids. The Southern Baptists were against all these changes and the Liberal Christians fought back.





Transition period?


What is there for you or anyone else to transition to in regards to my civil rights? How does the recognition of my civil rights affect you or anyone else in some way that you would need to be slowly transitioned into it? Why do I need to wait to have my civil rights recognized because there's some transition that other people have to go through before it's ok?


Is it that you believe that people need time to transition away from their hateful, prejudiced, bigoted way of thinking? If so, that's about the biggest stinkin' pile of bulls**t I have ever had a Christian leave on Bnet.


Prejudice is like fear...you choose to be led by it or you don't. There is no transition period. There is no transition. There is simply a different choice.


 


 You call that divisiveness a flaw in their character? I don't think that's rational.



I never called that divisiveness a flaw in their character. That's your irrational imagination at work.


I claimed that divisiveness was evidence of the complete and utter failure of their pathetic and rotting religion. That is, if unity is the preferred outcome, and not divisiveness.


Here's a question I like to pose to Christians, DO.


Would you agree that these two principles are unitive as opposed to divisive?


Love God with all of your heart, mind, soul, and strength.


Love your neighbor as yourself.


If the Christian religion is supposedly built upon these two principles of unity, why are there so many divisions, denominations, sects, cults, and other splintered factions within the Christian religion?


 




Good question. Answer, religion is no differant that politics because humans are involved so it will be corrupted. If deviciveness exposes Christianity as fraud then democracy is a fraud. What has always happened in Church as in government money rules, power corrupts, ignorance prevails etc. People form splinter groups for good reasons and bad. I belong to a church that was split over gay rights. The gay bashers have their own little church now. You dont seem to recognize that there are allot of Christians that have been fighting for you for a long time and paying the cost. each of the splinter groups has unity about their beliefs. Thats the way it should be untill we all agree.

'When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life stands explained.' - Mark Twain
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4 years ago  ::  Sep 11, 2010 - 11:06PM #52
Sirronrex
Posts: 2,675

Sep 11, 2010 -- 10:58PM, drawout wrote:

Good question. Answer, religion is no differant that politics because humans are involved so it will be corrupted. If deviciveness exposes Christianity as fraud then democracy is a fraud. What has always happened in Church as in government money rules, power corrupts, ignorance prevails etc. People form splinter groups for good reasons and bad. I belong to a church that was split over gay rights. The gay bashers have their own little church now. You dont seem to recognize that there are allot of Christians that have been fighting for you for a long time and paying the cost. each of the splinter groups has unity about their beliefs. Thats the way it should be untill we all agree.




 


A typical response. But not the most obvious answer. The most obvious answer eludes most Christians, as it has you. The most obvious answer is most likely the correct one.


The most obvious answer is that the Christian religion is not built upon the foundation of those principles.


I added this question to that post you quoted..


 


Here's another one I like to ask Christians about those two principles...


 


Which word or concept do you find to be the most crucial element of those principles?

I've been on a journey to nowhere...
and know that's the best place to be...
now...here...




If my faith isn't leading me inward, then my faith is leading me astray.

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4 years ago  ::  Sep 11, 2010 - 11:17PM #53
drawout
Posts: 5,910

Unfortunately your right. Its because we suck. Lutherans don't believe we are capable of being good so its no surprise. I believe Jesus died as a sign of Gods forgiveness for everyone.


BTW the comments in that linked article were selected by Baptists so its about as fair and balanced as the Fox network. They have been hijacked by the republicans and are nothing but a for profit brainwashing cult. They worship an invisible hand with an extended middle finger towards the poor.

'When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life stands explained.' - Mark Twain
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4 years ago  ::  Sep 12, 2010 - 8:36AM #54
Sirronrex
Posts: 2,675

Sep 11, 2010 -- 11:17PM, drawout wrote:


Unfortunately your right. Its because we suck. Lutherans don't believe we are capable of being good so its no surprise. I believe Jesus died as a sign of Gods forgiveness for everyone.


BTW the comments in that linked article were selected by Baptists so its about as fair and balanced as the Fox network. They have been hijacked by the republicans and are nothing but a for profit brainwashing cult. They worship an invisible hand with an extended middle finger towards the poor.






Thanks again for demonstrating the complete and utter failure of your rotting and decaying religion.


Those people, those Christians, you mock are the people Christians, like you, should be helping. But in my experience, the whole lot of you need help. Mainly because your religion has so utterly failed you.


Gay people don't need your help. Gay people have never needed the help of Christians. The only people who have ever needed help are those who claim the title Christian, but have been so deluded and set off on the wrong course by their religion that they unnaturally become hateful, prejudiced, bigots...and so they attack anyone and everyone they deem unworthy. During the civil rights movement, it wasn't black people that needed the help of liberal (as you like to refer to them as) Christians...it was the Christians who professed prejudiced, hateful, bigoted positions that needed the help of other Christians. Your attacks on Baptists is no different from them. You simply deem your fellow Christians as unworthy and attack them with the same prejudice, hatefulness, and bigotry they espouse towards gay people. You are no different from them. They are like the folks Paul describes in Romans 1..but you are the audience Paul is talking to when he scorns the lot of you in Romans 2.


Romans 1: Look, look over there...look at all of those awful Baptists.


Romans 2: Look, look right here...you are no different from them.


 


It's becoming more and more obvious to me that the whole entire lot of you need help. It is extremely rare to find a Christian who doesn't need guidance and assistance on their path. The whole lot of you are like a bunch of lifeless cows wandering around in a dark pasture looking for anything to possibly graze upon...but all you can find is a big pile of old, dusty books and uselss doctrine and dogma upon which to feed...none of which does anything to nourish your spiritual well-being...none of which nourishes and cultivates a relationship with God. None of which has any affect on the indoctrination into prejudice, hatefulness, and bigotry the Christian religion is so adept at doing to it's adherents...as evidenced over and over again at Christians who point their fingers at other Christians and claim "you are not a real Christian".


The Christian religion is a rotting and decaying religion and the constant need to schism and separate and divide yourselves is indicative of that rotting corpse you all find yourselves worshipping in.

I've been on a journey to nowhere...
and know that's the best place to be...
now...here...




If my faith isn't leading me inward, then my faith is leading me astray.

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4 years ago  ::  Sep 12, 2010 - 8:40AM #55
teilhard
Posts: 51,390

MORE Gay and Lesbian Service Members were expelled DURING DADT than before ...


Clinton BLEW it ...


Sep 10, 2010 -- 2:12PM, Girlchristian wrote:


Sep 10, 2010 -- 2:03PM, Sirronrex wrote:


Sep 10, 2010 -- 12:50PM, Girlchristian wrote:


Good, Clinton should have never signed it into law in the first place.



You can attempt to blame Bill Clinton all you want.



No, Clinton is responsible for making it law. To deny that is ignoring the facts.


Even Clinton has said he shouldn't have signed it.


I should add that I don't now, nor have I ever supported DADT. It's a stupid rule.



Moderated by Beliefnet_community on Sep 24, 2010 - 02:34PM
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4 years ago  ::  Sep 12, 2010 - 8:46AM #56
Sirronrex
Posts: 2,675

Sep 12, 2010 -- 8:40AM, teilhard wrote:


Clinton BLEW it ...



You can continue to blame slick Willy all you want.

Moderated by Beliefnet_community on Sep 24, 2010 - 02:36PM

I've been on a journey to nowhere...
and know that's the best place to be...
now...here...




If my faith isn't leading me inward, then my faith is leading me astray.

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4 years ago  ::  Sep 12, 2010 - 8:49AM #57
teilhard
Posts: 51,390

But see, my Point is that Clinton's Plan made the Situation WORSE -- not better ...


DADT has NOT been a Good Thing ...

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4 years ago  ::  Sep 12, 2010 - 8:53AM #58
Guessses
Posts: 2,233

Sep 12, 2010 -- 8:40AM, teilhard wrote:


MORE Gay and Lesbian Service Members were expelled DURING DADT than before ...




While you are correct you are also incorrect, as is most people in this case. I was there in 1980, and I just Honorably-Medically "retired" 3 weeks ago. DADT was the only protection we had. Knowing the regulations could have saved a lot of careers. The Military NO Longer had the "right" to pry into off-base personal lives! 


SGT, US Army

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"Lord, please, protect me from Your followers!"
"WWBD? Buddha- Does it matter? If you are enlightened it does not. If you are not enlightened it still doesn't matter."
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4 years ago  ::  Sep 12, 2010 - 8:54AM #59
Sirronrex
Posts: 2,675

Sep 12, 2010 -- 8:49AM, teilhard wrote:


But see, my Point is that Clinton's Plan made the Situation WORSE -- not better ...


DADT has NOT been a Good Thing ...



As for DADT making things worse...


There's nothing worse than being taught that you are a worthless abomination in the eyes of God simply for being who you are.

Moderated by Beliefnet_community on Sep 24, 2010 - 02:39PM

I've been on a journey to nowhere...
and know that's the best place to be...
now...here...




If my faith isn't leading me inward, then my faith is leading me astray.

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4 years ago  ::  Sep 12, 2010 - 9:06AM #60
teilhard
Posts: 51,390

Well ... Clinton is not, was not, never has been, a Bishop or Theologian or such ...


The U. S. Military is NOT a Religious Faith Community ...


So ...


But the FACT is that DADT made the Situation WORSE -- NOT  BETTER -- for Gay and Lesbian Persons in The Military ...

Moderated by Beliefnet_community on Sep 24, 2010 - 02:42PM
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