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4 years ago  ::  Sep 04, 2010 - 7:30AM #31
Sirronrex
Posts: 2,675

Sep 3, 2010 -- 10:53PM, SquirleyWurley wrote:


In the past I have fornicated heterosexually and I have also engaged in homosexual sex acts.  I am speaking of my own sins, the things I have struggled with.


Today by the grace of God I want to live a life of love and purity, of holiness and obedience, more than I want to indulge my flesh.



And you believe you are living a life of love and purity when you harbor such hateful and prejudiced thoughts towards others? (Go ahead...deny this fact...deny that you perceive gay people as impure simply because of who they love and express that love with).


 


 


I accepted that I was a sinner, a traitor against God in general, and that God was offering me forgiveness, great mercy, and even glorious  transformation into a new creature, through faith in Jesus Christ, if I would just lay down my weapons, surrender, and live a life of faith: faithful to Jesus, faithful to His word, and when I struggle or stumble, to seriously try to do better and to put sin behind me, to keep coming back to the vision of perfect faithfulness in Jesus, to look forward to being sanctified, to be continually transformed by God, to become free from sin rather than to hold onto sin.



You do not reflect someone who has much faith in anything except the man-made concept of sin, a book and the doctrine and dogma of the Christian religion. In my experience, people who place their faith in this box, never get out of it and never find God...all they ever find is more and more justification to remain in the little box they have been instructed to build around themselves in attempt to enclose God....but never recognizing that all they've effectively done is keep God out.


 


 


In part of what I quoted previously, Jesus said in Matthew 5:19 "Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach  men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but  whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the  kingdom of heaven."


As someone who really believes that Jesus is the Son of God, took on human flesh, and died and then rose again in the power of the Holy Spirit, I see power to defeat sin.


And I mean any and every sin.  My pride, my hard-heartedness, my lack of compassion, my lust, my excuses for not speaking up for the truth, my excuses for being rude, whatever sin creeps up that God might shine light on and cleanse me from unrighteousness.



 


That's interesting...because that list of sins that you just listed off at the end there is exactly what you continue to do in regards to the topic of homosexuality. Your pride prevents you from recognizing the truth regarding sexuality. Your hard heart prevents you from hearing anything anyone is saying to you in regards to the prejudice and hatefulness your position holds. There's absolutely nothing compassionate about your position. You don't speak up for the truth...quite the opposite. Your position is extremely rude. And yet, you don't appear to ask God to remove any of this...mainly because you believe you are right and thus your pride refuses to acknowledge or admit that you are more than likely wrong. Why? Because you are in no position whatsoever to make such determination for everyone else. And yet you continue to do so. You are a prejudiced Christian bigot...but even that you will deny.


 


As for Paul and various confusing or controversial things in Scripture... When I look at the scripture and see things I may not understand or may seem confusing, sometimes I put it on the side to look into later, sometimes I just shrug and move on, sometimes I pursue things and see if there are other scriptures that shed light on things that I have trouble putting together; I figure I may have to be patient and I may just have to say "I don't know" to lots of things.  Paul seems to have been dealing with a lot of disorderly, chaotic, wild and licentious stuff with the Corinthians and Ephesians, and there were people coming from goddess-worshiping cults etc., and that context helps me understand how he on the one hand in some places says women shouldn't teach but should be silent, and in other places says don't forbid prophecy, and in various places I think he commends women who apparently had high standing in their Christian community, too.  I try to take it all together and in context, rather than harp on one passage at the expense of the other.




You wrote:


When I look at the scripture and see things I may not understand or may seem confusing, sometimes I put it on the side to look into later, sometimes I just shrug and move on, sometimes I pursue things and see if there are other scriptures that shed light on things that I have trouble putting together


 


And yet you know with absolute certainty and without any confusion whatsoever that homosexuality is a sin.


Your haughtiness knows no bounds when it comes to judging what others do.


 


The fact that you admit to having homosexual sex is not missed on me. Gay hating Christians like you are the worst kind. Mainly because you hate yourself so much more than you hate me. You simply use me and other gay people to nail your own self-hatred and self-denial to the fence, like Matthew Shepard. Until you reconcile your own evil thoughts about yourself, you will never clearly understand this issue, what your silly little book says about it, or will you overcome the obvious hate and prejudice you possess for people who have found peace and serenity living the life you wish you could live, but don't have the courage to do so.


 


Jesus spoke of a narrow gate.


You are on the same wide path as the rest of Christianity. Very few find the gate, and that is because the wide path is religion. The narrow gate is only open to those who find their own way...not the way others have trod...and it's quite obvious you are walking in the same footprints of prejudice and bigotry so many other Christians have trod throughout history. None of them finding their own way...but simply following the same path as all the others that came before them.


I guess it comes down to this question, Rocky...


Do you wish to have a more fulfilling and enriching experience of God? If so, there is only one way to fully allow that to happen...you must invite it...but an invitation with limitations and restrictions will not allow the full expression of God. If your invitation requires a black tie and coat, a sandaled gentleman wearing a tunic is not welcome. The only invitation that works is the one that states very clearly...come as you are. Any pre-conceived ideas you have about God deny God full expression.

I've been on a journey to nowhere...
and know that's the best place to be...
now...here...




If my faith isn't leading me inward, then my faith is leading me astray.

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4 years ago  ::  Sep 04, 2010 - 8:49AM #32
faith713
Posts: 3,892

Sep 3, 2010 -- 11:23AM, mainecaptain wrote:


 


 


Sep 3, 2010 -- 8:46AM, faith713 wrote:

Scripture is very clear about the sin of homosexuals. In reality, Calling sin, sin is not ignoring Jesus OTOH calling sin, not sin is ignoring Jesus and misleading others:




There is nothing clear about scripture. It is all interpretation, personal interpretation. And if you do not like homosexuality, then you read that scripture is against it.


Do not malign the name of Jesus with the things you believe. I sincerely doubt Jesus would be a bigot.


 





God is not the author of confusion1Cr 14:33  

Those Christians who ignore God's word malign the name of Jesus OTOH calling sin, sin is not bigotry.

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."--John14:6

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.-- John 3:16

"We love Him because He first loved us."--1 John 4:9-10

"There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear ... "
1 John 4:18
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4 years ago  ::  Sep 04, 2010 - 9:01AM #33
Sirronrex
Posts: 2,675

Sep 4, 2010 -- 8:49AM, faith713 wrote:

Those Christians who ignore God's word malign the name of Jesus OTOH calling sin, sin is not bigotry.





It is your heterosexist, misogynistic religion that is bigoted, faith713.


It is you who choose to follow the words in a silly little book instead of paying heed to the Word of God. It is you who malign the Word.


Sin is a construct of religion. It is man-made, just as religion is man-made. Just as that silly little book is man-made.


Your bigotry is found in your obsessive need to try and convince gay people they are awful, sinful people simply because they do not abide your understanding of your silly little book. Your bigotry is found in your obsessive desire to try and persuade gay people to change the error of their ways. On both counts you have failed miserably at convincing and persuading anyone of anything other than the idea that you are a prejudiced bigot and people who place their faith in silly little books are completely ignorant of the world in which they live because they have built a false one from the words they selectively pluck from their dead, lifeless book.

I've been on a journey to nowhere...
and know that's the best place to be...
now...here...




If my faith isn't leading me inward, then my faith is leading me astray.

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4 years ago  ::  Sep 04, 2010 - 11:06AM #34
darcamani
Posts: 2,152

God did not auther anything.  Man is the auther of confusion.


It is that simple.


My homosexuality is no sin, it is as natural to me as breathing. No matter what you say, I will still be gay and in love with 1 woman, my partner .  There is no obsession nor compulsion it simply is what it is, love between two consenting adults that have freely chosen to build a life together with my children. 


That is the easy part .


It is the paranoid sex obsessed fundamentalists that make life difficult. Openly discrimnating and spewing fear and bigotry in the name of spirits that had nothing to do with this belief system today. Absolutely nothing.


Dar

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4 years ago  ::  Sep 04, 2010 - 11:13AM #35
REteach
Posts: 15,016

Sep 4, 2010 -- 8:49AM, faith713 wrote:

God is not the author of confusion1Cr 14:33  

Those Christians who ignore God's word malign the name of Jesus OTOH calling sin, sin is not bigotry.




Yes, Faith, you do malign the name of Jesus by ignoring his commands not to judge others, to worry about your own planks, to treat others as you wish to be treated, and to remember that how you treat the least of these is how you treat Jesus.  Yes, you are indeed the author of confusion, not God.

I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize what you heard was not what I meant...
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4 years ago  ::  Sep 04, 2010 - 1:50PM #36
SquirleyWurley
Posts: 1,970

Sep 4, 2010 -- 7:30AM, Sirronrex wrote:


Sep 3, 2010 -- 10:53PM, SquirleyWurley wrote:


In the past I have fornicated heterosexually and I have also engaged in homosexual sex acts.  I am speu aking of my own sins, the things I have struggled with.


Today by the grace of God I want to live a life of love and purity, of holiness and obedience, more than I want to indulge my flesh.



And you believe you are living a life of love and purity when you harbor such hateful and prejudiced thoughts towards others? (Go ahead...deny this fact...deny that you perceive gay people as impure simply because of who they love and express that love with).



Do you sometimes have hateful and prejudiced thoughts towards others, perhaps Christians?  When I am tempted, when an attitude, reaction, thought, whatever bubbles up... I try not to encourage those that are resentful or consist of superior attitudes etc.  I don't want to give place to such sins.


I deal with people all the time who sin in one way or another, people who are not walking the strait and narrow path, without harboring a sense of me being pure and superior and them being impure and inferior.


I do try to watch the attitudes in my heart.  If the subject is what I think about specific actions and attitudes, whether or not some are sinful, impure, well that is a matter of discernment.


In part of what I quoted previously, Jesus said in Matthew 5:19 "Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach  men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but  whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the  kingdom of heaven."


As someone who really believes that Jesus is the Son of God, took on human flesh, and died and then rose again in the power of the Holy Spirit, I see power to defeat sin.


And I mean any and every sin.  My pride, my hard-heartedness, my lack of compassion, my lust, my excuses for not speaking up for the truth, my excuses for being rude, whatever sin creeps up that God might shine light on and cleanse me from unrighteousness.



 


That's interesting...because that list of sins that you just listed off at the end there is exactly what you continue to do in regards to the topic of homosexuality. Your pride prevents you from recognizing the truth regarding sexuality. Your hard heart prevents you from hearing anything anyone is saying to you in regards to the prejudice and hatefulness your position holds.



So you would have me ignore the issues of faith and morals that are in the Bible, and you claim that the parts of the Bible which declare homosexual sex, fornication, etc., to be sinful, are just pride and hardening of heart prejudice and hate.


 


There's absolutely nothing compassionate about your position. You don't speak up for the truth...quite the opposite. Your position is extremely rude.



So you want me to speak against the Bible, against the parts that declare homosexual sex to be sinful, and you want me to declare the Bible rude?


My position itself is rude?  Anyhow, whether or not having a position is rude in and of itself, I would think that on a Christianity and homosexuality board, which I came to after a Christian-to-Christian forum thread was moved here by a moderator, it would be seen as acceptable to state a position and discuss it.  I'm not protesting funerals like Fred Phelps or throwing blood on a Cathedral like some gay activists have done.  On a forum I'm discussing a position.


You are a prejudiced Christian bigot...but even that you will deny.



No I don't deny it.  I may question your definition of prejudiced and bigot, but I don't deny it.  I understand and accept that you define these terms in such a way that I fit into them.


I understand that you want me to be a self-hating Christian, that you would prefer if my Christianity involved some sort of embarassed apology for things in the Bible that you hate.

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4 years ago  ::  Sep 04, 2010 - 2:12PM #37
amcolph
Posts: 18,001

Sep 4, 2010 -- 1:50PM, SquirleyWurley wrote:


So you would have me ignore the issues of faith and morals that are in the Bible, and you claim that the parts of the Bible which declare homosexual sex, fornication, etc., to be sinful, are just pride and hardening of heart prejudice and hate.


So you want me to speak against the Bible, against the parts that declare homosexual sex to be sinful, and you want me to declare the Bible rude?


I understand that you want me to be a self-hating Christian, that you would prefer if my Christianity involved some sort of embarassed apology for things in the Bible that you hate.





No, that's not it at all.


You have certain religious beliefs about the Bible, marriage and homosexuality that not even all Christians share with you.


You are entitled to them.  You are even entitled to preach them to others, if you don't become too offensive about it.


But that's all.  There is no reason to impose them on others by law, or by the absence of law.


If other people want to ignore your message they are free to do so.  Neither you or your marriage is harmed by others deciding that persons of the same sex may marry, and you have presented no compelling reason that society at large should prevent them, save for reasons derived from your own theology.


That is not enough of a reason, under our Constitution, to prevent them, even if a majority is on your side.

This post contains no advertisements or solicitations.
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4 years ago  ::  Sep 04, 2010 - 3:08PM #38
REteach
Posts: 15,016

Sep 4, 2010 -- 1:50PM, SquirleyWurley wrote:


[ When I am tempted, when an attitude, reaction, thought, whatever bubbles up... I try not to encourage those that are resentful or consist of superior attitudes etc.  I don't want to give place to such sins.



But you do.  You are making the assumption that gays simply don't struggle to overcome their lusts the way you claim to.  You are indeed assuming you are superior.  Stop and really think about it. 

I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize what you heard was not what I meant...
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4 years ago  ::  Sep 04, 2010 - 3:52PM #39
faith713
Posts: 3,892

Sep 4, 2010 -- 3:08PM, REteach wrote:


Sep 4, 2010 -- 1:50PM, SquirleyWurley wrote:


[ When I am tempted, when an attitude, reaction, thought, whatever bubbles up... I try not to encourage those that are resentful or consist of superior attitudes etc.  I don't want to give place to such sins.



But you do.  You are making the assumption that gays simply don't struggle to overcome their lusts the way you claim to.  You are indeed assuming you are superior.  Stop and really think about it. 




Of course sin is a struggle, as any other addictive and destructive behaviors. The first step is to admit the sin, not to remain in denial.

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."--John14:6

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.-- John 3:16

"We love Him because He first loved us."--1 John 4:9-10

"There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear ... "
1 John 4:18
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4 years ago  ::  Sep 04, 2010 - 3:59PM #40
faith713
Posts: 3,892

Sep 4, 2010 -- 11:13AM, REteach wrote:


Sep 4, 2010 -- 8:49AM, faith713 wrote:

God is not the author of confusion1Cr 14:33  

Those Christians who ignore God's word malign the name of Jesus OTOH calling sin, sin is not bigotry.




Yes, Faith, you do malign the name of Jesus by ignoring his commands not to judge others, to worry about your own planks, to treat others as you wish to be treated, and to remember that how you treat the least of these is how you treat Jesus.  Yes, you are indeed the author of confusion, not God.




Jesus said: "Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment" (John 7:24).


Jesus tells the adulterous woman to "sin no more"

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."--John14:6

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.-- John 3:16

"We love Him because He first loved us."--1 John 4:9-10

"There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear ... "
1 John 4:18
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