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Switch to Forum Live View Christianity and Gay Marriage
4 years ago  ::  Aug 16, 2010 - 1:34AM #1
AdamsApple
Posts: 1

Should Christians fight against the legal recognition of homosexual marriages? I'm not even sure that there is a real strong basis for legally recognized heterosexual monogamy. Should the government really involved itself in human relationship and as Christian, should it matter to me?


I stumbled upon this debate: www.debate.org/debates/Gay-Marraige-Shou...


 


Are these arguments convincing? 

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4 years ago  ::  Aug 16, 2010 - 8:58AM #2
Iwantamotto
Posts: 8,369

I suspect this will be moved to Christians and Homosexuality forum (there is one, you know), but my thoughts before that happens:


As a Christian, we follow the bible, right?  Now, how come we as a nation frown on polygamy, which WAS allowed biblically?  How come we frown on adult men marrying (pre)teen women, as it was perfectly permitted in the bible?  How come we believe marriage is sacred, when our Messiah not only supposedly avoided it like the plague, but also said it was irrelevant in Heaven?  I mean, if a woman who marries seven brothers sequentially isn't technically married when she croaks, what makes you think God cared about Adam and Steve getting hitched?  Marriage has always been an economic or political thing.  Churches made it a religious thing to profit from it.


Sexuality is a biological drive.  Thus, as God MADE the universe and its laws, He gets the final bill for this.  Homosexuality among consenting adult humans isn't the same thing as pedophilia (as we don't recognize children as fully functioning human beings with equal rights), as beastiality (again with the classification difference, with even fewer rights), nor fetishism (inanimate objects can't be harmed or benefitted, so who cares).


Jesus didn't hang out with the popular kids.  He liked hanging out with the groups who were despised by society.  He gave them something the self-righteous wouldn't ... respect and compassion (mostly, anyway).  As many deominations wish to see homosexuals as second-class citizens or worse, we would do well to remember Jesus' general attitude to the groups abandoned by those who claim love and then throw them away in the trash.


The theme throughout the bible is that God cares far less about nitpicking the rules as He does doing the right thing.  Jesus is just one in a very long line of prophets who tried to get people to stop relying on biblical legalism to justify hard-heartedness.  We as Christians must not allow ourselves to become the very thing He preached against.

Knock and the door shall open.  It's not my fault if you don't like the decor.
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4 years ago  ::  Aug 16, 2010 - 9:38AM #3
smcisaac
Posts: 8,068

There are two kinds of marriage:  religious and civil.  When you're talking about "legal recognition", you're talking about civil marriage, not religious marriage. Let's be clear:  nobody is trying to tell any church or other religious community whom they may or may not marry in a religious ceremony.


I'll ask two leading questions that may help frame the questions you ask a little more clearly:


1.  What is the proper role of religious belief, or of any particular religion's beliefs, in determining the laws of a secular, multi-faith society that guarantees freedom of belief, equal rights under the law, and other broad personal liberties to every citizen?


2.  1 John 4 tells Christians that all love is from God, that loving is how we know God, and that "he who abides in love abides in God, and God in him."  Marriages usually (or at least ideally) occur when two people love each other so deeply that  they are willing to commit the rest of their lives to each other.  Are there any circumstances in which Christians should oppose civil laws that promote stable, loving relationships, and if so, what other religious principle is so superior to love that such opposition is justified?

"Truth did not come into the world naked, but it came in types and images. The world will not receive truth in any other way."  Gospel of Philip, Logion 72

"Christ will regenerate all things; through Him all things will be purged, and return into eternal life. And when the Son shall deliver up the kingdom to the Father, all things will be God; that is, all things will still exist, but God will exist in them, and they will be full of Him." Fabius Manus Victorinus, c. 350 AD
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4 years ago  ::  Aug 16, 2010 - 10:34AM #4
Merope
Posts: 10,618

This thread was moved from Christian-to-Christian Debate.



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4 years ago  ::  Aug 16, 2010 - 12:57PM #5
Jenandew7
Posts: 13,479

Welcome!  I gather you are new to BNET. 


Aug 16, 2010 -- 1:34AM, AdamsApple wrote:


Should Christians fight against the legal recognition of homosexual marriages?



As has been said, this is a civil matter and not a religious matter in the U.S.. 


I'm not even sure that there is a real strong basis for legally recognized heterosexual monogamy. Should the government really involved itself in human relationship and as Christian, should it matter to me?



The gov't has been involved in human relationships all along.  Everything links to from taxation, to insurance, to the right to bury our dead, the right to adopt, the right to bequeath to those we love the things we possess when we die, etc.  The question is:  What right does the gov't have to deny our own choice as to whom we love and share our lives with?  On what basis?


I stumbled upon this debate: www.debate.org/debates/Gay-Marraige-Shou...


 


Are these arguments convincing? 




I don't need to read anymore of those debates.  I have no reason to be concerned about how others live their lives.  I am simply to love ALL my neighbors.  And, not judge them.


A.

If you pour yourself out for the hungry and satisfy the desire of the afflicted, then shall your light rise in the darkness and your gloom be as the noonday. --Isaiah 58:10
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4 years ago  ::  Aug 17, 2010 - 9:47PM #6
darcamani
Posts: 2,152

Why do "christians" follow the bible?   God nor jesus had anything to do with that batch of books. 


It was written for man . Simply trying to link history and culture for a few small groups of people who STILL do not get along.


Please, please, bring this  faith system into this century.


This western version of  a perfectly nice spiritual journey is very violent.   People live in fear.  I know I do not trust christian much of anything still.  


Where is the love?


Where is the awe?  The magic?


In my understanding, the Spirit protects, and loves and teaches.  Y'all don't get this thing?


Shunning, judging, that is up to after death, not for mortals.   So if someone is weirded out by something someone is doing, best look to self. It ain't  some ghost issue.


As for after death, call me, I will pick up the call...sarcasm off.


mo


Dar

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4 years ago  ::  Sep 01, 2010 - 5:25PM #7
faith713
Posts: 3,892

Aug 16, 2010 -- 8:58AM, Iwantamotto wrote:


Jesus didn't hang out with the popular kids.  He liked hanging out with the groups who were despised by society.  He gave them something the self-righteous wouldn't ... respect and compassion (mostly, anyway).  As many deominations wish to see homosexuals as second-class citizens or worse, we would do well to remember Jesus' general attitude to the groups abandoned by those who claim love and then throw them away in the trash.


The theme throughout the bible is that God cares far less about nitpicking the rules as He does doing the right thing.  Jesus is just one in a very long line of prophets who tried to get people to stop relying on biblical legalism to justify hard-heartedness.  We as Christians must not allow ourselves to become the very thing He preached against.




Jesus never sides with sin. The right and caring thing to do is not to call evil good. 

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."--John14:6

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.-- John 3:16

"We love Him because He first loved us."--1 John 4:9-10

"There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear ... "
1 John 4:18
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4 years ago  ::  Sep 01, 2010 - 5:28PM #8
darcamani
Posts: 2,152

What is evil?  Not my living and loving honestly?  So, pray tell. what is evil?  I pay my bills, have not robbed anyone nor lied nor cheated.  Never murdered, honor my heritage anf honor Spirit.  Have no need to "covet". 


So what is the problem Why are you all so busted on discriminating, for why? Give me one rational reason.


Dar

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4 years ago  ::  Sep 01, 2010 - 5:36PM #9
darcamani
Posts: 2,152

How on earth do you know what Jesus did ? Were you there?


And evil?  What is evil compared to good to you, please don't answer for God nor Jesus because you ain't neither.


So don't try with "god said" it does not work .


Dar


 

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4 years ago  ::  Sep 01, 2010 - 5:37PM #10
mainecaptain
Posts: 21,790

Sep 1, 2010 -- 5:25PM, faith713 wrote:


 


Jesus never sides with sin. The right and caring thing to do is not to call evil good. 




Very little of what humans call evil, is evil. The right and caring thing to do is not interfere with civil rights of others. Not to force your religion on someone else. To do those things, is evil.


We have no idea what Jesus said, he never wrote anything down. All we have are things written about him many decades after he died.


There is nothing evil about Gay marriage or Gay peoples. Nothing sinful either.

A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. Aristotle
Never discourage anyone...who continually makes progress, no matter how slow. Plato..
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives" Jackie Robinson
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