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4 years ago  ::  Jun 14, 2010 - 12:04PM #11
Anesis
Posts: 1,543

Some others here do not see it as a problem that you will not be in a relationship without sex. I am a Christian, and I do see a problem with it. If my boyfriend would leave me if I did not put out, the message to me is that he is only using me for sex and that the foundation of the relationship would crumble if there were none. I would never want to be with a guy who places that much more on the sexual relationshp than on the more solid foundation of friendship. There is nothing holding your relationship together except sex.

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4 years ago  ::  Jun 14, 2010 - 6:45PM #12
Bezant
Posts: 1,338

Jun 4, 2010 -- 3:35AM, Luke wrote:


I'm hoping to get some insight on a scenario from people that are Christian or Catholic, but I would love to hear from anyone.  My girlfriend is Catholic.  I'm not.  We've been dating for about nine months.  We've been having sex the whole time.  She has mentioned a couple of times, recently, that she feels guilty about having premarital sex but thinks that if she were to stop I would leave her (which is accurate). We recently had a conversation in which she indicated that she has not been going to church because it brings into relief her sinful behavior.  I think that these things weigh pretty heavily on her conscience.  I had no idea that any of this was an issue when we started dating.  If I had, I certainly would not have entered into the relationship.  I don't particularly feel able or inclined to abstain from sex, however,  I care about her very much and do not want to stunt her personal or spiritual development.  If anyone could suggest an appropriate course of action I would appreciate it.







Hullo Luke


Hmm. I've a friend who dated some bloke not long ago. As a matter of fact neither is religious but sex was kind of an issue as he would've liked to but she didn't want to. When I asked her why she dated him in the first place, she said, "I don't know. I wasn't really planning to date." So I said, "That's a problem. You'd better find out." They had no purpose to begin with, and that's why they broke up after two months.


I'm writing a week after the post so I don't know what developments have passed or how helpful my advice is. She must find out why she was interested in you in the first place and what she wanted to share with you (long-term, marriage, FWB, etc.). It seems like your primary interest in the relationship is sex, maybe in the long term. When you both know your "goals" and why you were interested in each other in the first place, you must tell each other. I'm serious. I'm Catholic as well and my avatar reads "religious" all over but before I enter a relationship I want to know exactly where we're going, what each of us wants. As long as 2 people understand that from the beginning, all ought go well. I hope it goes well with you both.


I'm not trying to preach to you or anything but let me add my blah-blah-blah to everyone else's opinion on sex. Celibacy until marriage is a good system. You don't worry about pregnancy or STIs from sexual contact while you're dating. Some people want different things out of sex, and if niether partner talks about what they want from the beginning, it causes problems. I'm friends with an engaged Orthodox Jewish couple who are shomer negiah, that's to say they've never done more than hold hands, but they're in love. Anyway, Catholicism's view on sex is not as narrow as it seems; almost anything goes within the boundaries. ;)

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4 years ago  ::  Jun 15, 2010 - 9:48AM #13
David
Posts: 287

A follow up here...by character, temperment and personality, marriage just doesn't suit me....very few happy marriages exist today, in my view..everything is disposable..and I didn't invent this game called life nor did I make the rules...and if God invented anything better than sex, He kept it for Himself..Wink


"To thine own self, be true", is my motto...very old and wise advice...


 


the posts here are great and God bless and keep you all!


david  


 

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4 years ago  ::  Jun 15, 2010 - 3:19PM #14
hm2menger
Posts: 171

Jun 14, 2010 -- 12:03PM, Godsvesselx2 wrote:


Your either for God or against God. So pick a side. Don't say you believe one day and do something contrary to what you believe the next. If you believe in God then do as He ask. If you want to be of this world then do as the world. Just choose..





Well the problem with this is that in order to follow this line of reasoning, one has to assume that you ARE in fact LITERALLY "God's vessel" and know without question what deity wants. Now I know that you do feel this way, but not everyone is as sure as you are.


I know that devout Christians seem to think it's easy, the Bible is the final word. Many of us however, find the Bible obscure, archaic, contradictory, or just plain unconvincing. Add to that the frequent translations and re-interpretations, and it is not nearly as simple as you seem to think. What is required to have a view like yours is faith, and one either has it, or doesn't.

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4 years ago  ::  Jun 15, 2010 - 4:26PM #15
Bezant
Posts: 1,338

Jun 15, 2010 -- 3:19PM, hm2menger wrote:


 


Jun 14, 2010 -- 12:03PM, Godsvesselx2 wrote:


Your either for God or against God. So pick a side. Don't say you believe one day and do something contrary to what you believe the next. If you believe in God then do as He ask. If you want to be of this world then do as the world. Just choose..






Well the problem with this is that in order to follow this line of reasoning, one has to assume that you ARE in fact LITERALLY "God's vessel" and know without question what deity wants. Now I know that you do feel this way, but not everyone is as sure as you are.


I know that devout Christians seem to think it's easy, the Bible is the final word. Many of us however, find the Bible obscure, archaic, contradictory, or just plain unconvincing. Add to that the frequent translations and re-interpretations, and it is not nearly as simple as you seem to think. What is required to have a view like yours is faith, and one either has it, or doesn't.




On the contrary to your generalization that devout Christians think it easy to follow their religious convictions based on the Bible, many devout Christians find difficult, if not more difficult living up to their own bar than nonbelievers. Look how many devout break their own rules -- adultering pastors, pedophilic priests, fornicating preacher's daughters etc. Furthermore not all devout Christians believe the Bible to be the final word in the sense that it is the only authority, and not all the devout Christians deny the Bible is an enigmatic text.

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4 years ago  ::  Jun 17, 2010 - 7:31PM #16
hm2menger
Posts: 171

 


Well Benzant, part of what you said I didn't mean to imply, that I thought that following the Christian Dogma was easy. While I may have left that impression, I know that it isn't easy, in fact I might argue, impossible. I could even go so far as to say that based on the policy of unlimited forgiveness, this is assumed.


What I didn't know is that some Christians do not consider the Bible the final word on everything, it would seem logical since many of the issues faced by a present day man did not exist when the Bible was written. I have not seen a shortage of preachers ready to use the Bible to make pronoucements on everything from video games to vibrators, however.


That the Bible is an "enigmatic text" as you put it, well, I haven't heard any Christians point it out, but I doubt they could argue otherwise.

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4 years ago  ::  Jun 19, 2010 - 1:32PM #17
Bezant
Posts: 1,338

Hullo again


"Well Benzant, part of what you said I didn't mean to imply, that I thought that following the Christian Dogma was easy. While I may have left that impression, I know that it isn't easy, in fact I might argue, impossible. I could even go so far as to say that based on the policy of unlimited forgiveness, this is assumed."


Cool. We essentially agree.


"What I didn't know is that some Christians do not consider the Bible the final word on everything, it would seem logical since many of the issues faced by a present day man did not exist when the Bible was written. I have not seen a shortage of preachers ready to use the Bible to make pronoucements on everything from video games to vibrators, however."


LOL, you've a point, but even if we were living in the same life as Biblical people -- no cell phones, Xboxes, vibrators (terrible life, isn't it?) -- societal context is actually not the pitfall. The Bible may not say in red letters, "pornographic film is wrong," but there's no way to Scripturally O.K. pornographic film.


Scripture, though beneficial and authoritative, isn't sufficient by itself to answer every practical question that comes along without interpretation. If everyone on Bnet turned to the Bible to find the Scriptural definition of salvation everyone would reach similiar but varying answers. Hence there are hundreds of Protestant churches.


That the Bible is an "enigmatic text" as you put it, well, I haven't heard any Christians point it out, but I doubt they could argue otherwise.


I doubt it too, but it's funny when they try. What I mean by "enigmatic" is that God generally speaks through mediums, and there'll always be much figuring out to be had.

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4 years ago  ::  Sep 09, 2010 - 6:17PM #18
angpuppy
Posts: 520

Jun 4, 2010 -- 3:35AM, Luke wrote:


I'm hoping to get some insight on a scenario from people that are Christian or Catholic, but I would love to hear from anyone.  My girlfriend is Catholic.  I'm not.  We've been dating for about nine months.  We've been having sex the whole time.  She has mentioned a couple of times, recently, that she feels guilty about having premarital sex but thinks that if she were to stop I would leave her (which is accurate).  We recently had a conversation in which she indicated that she has not been going to church because it brings into relief her sinful behavior.  I think that these things weigh pretty heavily on her conscience.  I had no idea that any of this was an issue when we started dating.  If I had, I certainly would not have entered into the relationship.  I don't particularly feel able or inclined to abstain from sex, however,  I care about her very much and do not want to stunt her personal or spiritual development.  If anyone could suggest an appropriate course of action I would appreciate it.




I'll be blunt with you. 


Almost a decade ago, I was in a not so serious relationship with a guy.  Honestly, I was confused at the time and extreemly lonely and he was very interested in me.  I don't think he at all understood exactly what was going on inside of me.  I had previously had my heart broken by a young man whom I had thought I would eventually marry.  I was suffering from a depression and confused about how I felt about anything.  This man was there for me as a shoulder to cry on, but eventually this become very sexual in nature though we'd never have intercourse and refrained from a number of other sexual behaviors in addition to intercourse.


My guilt over our sexual activity was profound.  I was at a point of my life where I had hit rock bottom and had some sort of spiritual sense of God calling out to me.  However, God seemed far out and the arms of this man seemed closer.  So my response was weird.  I wouldn't let go of this man, but I did start going to almost weekly confession (though sometimes I'd be sinning instead of going to confession), I'd refrain from receiving the Eucharist when I had not yet gone to confession, and I still kept going to Mass even if I was dead tired because we had stayed up so late the night before. 


At the same time sometimes I'd purposely sin in spite of God and myself.  It wasn't just always falling into it.  Overall this left me at a tension.  Sometimes I'd try to ease the tension by trying to rush the level of our commitment or I'd begin talking about marriage.  Eventually a Christian friend helped me to recognize that the relationship was damaging my spiritual journey.  As such, I broke up with the guy, but we remained friends and our behavior toward each other didn't seem to change much.  All that had changed is that I had crushed this guy's heart.


Eventually I sought out direct spiritual advise from a priest who'd actually do more than give me absolution.  I was advised to recognize that the friendship itself was leading me into sin and that I was helping neither myself nor the man I was friends with, and thus I was advised to end the friendship.  As such, I did.  The man resented the Catholic Church so much for my choice in following the priest's advise.  I see though my biggest mistake as leading him on for so long and using him to attempt to satisfy my loneliness.  It would have been better had we never been involved, but at that point there was nothing I could do to fix my past mistake.  I had to get out of the situation.  I don't regret it one last bit.


I spent the next 7 years pretty much not dating at all, and found during this period that God was romancing my heart.  It was like a sort of falling in love.  I became happier than I had ever been in my life.  I realized that my heart pined and yearned for God.  Usually I'd direct that yearning and try to seek satisfaction from some earthly thing or some earthly person, but it wouldn't satisfy.  God, however, satisfied me.  Whatever aspect of my heart I found capable at that time of giving to Him, that aspect of my heart was satisfied.  As such, my tendency to sin became more clearly not simply me being a bad person, but recognizing that a part of my heart was enslaved.  It was like a hungry starving person eating food out of a dumpster and trying to train it to let go and also to figure out the difference between simply starving and actively giving that portion of my heart to God.


Anyway, almost a decade later, I got married to a devout Catholic man who is the most amazing husband.  I feel absolutely no disconnect between my relationship with God and my relationship with my husband.  My husband leads me closer to God and I do for him as well.  When we were in marriage prep, they gave us a book to write down some of our fears and concerns about our relationship with God.  Both of us answered that we had a fear of turning each other into idols.  We were afraid of ever loving each other more than we loved God, but at that point, we were so far in our spiritual journey that we came to realize that God was pleased of our love for each other.  We were seeking Him first and striving to love Him day by day.  Our love for each other was a new way for us to experience God's love for us.


It doesn't sound to me that your girlfriend is going in the same direction I went in, but she is having to choose between you and God or at least you and her religious faith.  It does sound to me that there is a tension there, and her statement implying that she's having sex before she's afraid of losing you tends to display to me that part of her heart wants to abstain and be given to God, but part of her only sees abstainence as loss and loneliness.  She's not ready to let you go and will eventually make that final decision.   However, as for helping her out in her spiritual journey, if she's going to practice her Catholic faith completely, at the very least the sexual activity has to stop.

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4 years ago  ::  Sep 11, 2010 - 2:59AM #19
in_my_opinion
Posts: 2,969

Dear Luke,


You are caring for her at least a little. She has to stand up and fight her own spiritual battles.


You can't fight them for her. She must decide for herself. She may decide to give you up.


She was wrong to use sex to get you and is equally wrong to use it to keep you.


To be kind one might say she was in love and seduced away from what she thinks is right.


Will predict that the situation will hurt her badly.


The longer she struggles without solving and choosing, the longer she will suffer.


If, you wish to be kind; let her go.


Don't use her for what makes her (and you, too, because of her quandary) feel guilty.


If, you decide to marry her; be sure that is what you want, or you will lay the groundwork for resenting her.


Share all these posts with her and then have a long honest talk.

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3 years ago  ::  Sep 19, 2011 - 9:01PM #20
StoryMing
Posts: 39

My initial ("knee-jerk") response is to feel that if continuing to have sex now is more important to you than the long-term relationship you would gain after marrying, that doesn't seem to me like caring about her very much; you are saying you would give her up/ lose her rather than to wait for her- and that speaks volumes to a woman about her real importance to you. But, that is between you, her, and God, and my own opinion is neither here nor there.


As to an appropriate course of action-- what about marrying her?

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